[Fishyhaddock]

Hi there - am tying myself up in knots over terminology. We will be be lambing first time April 5th ish with just 2 Wiltshire Horn gimmers. I know that I need to begin feeding protein concentrate 6 weeks prior but what is this concentrate? I have some harbro clover coarse mix which I believe is a general conditioner and therefore not the concentrate that all the threads and books mention? 

If this is the case I need to get hold of some nuts / pencils (are they the same thing?). And finally is "cake" the same as pencils / nuts?

It's a whole new language....

[pikilily]

Hi FH, someone with more knowledge will follow up my post 

I know.....I was a bit confuzzled when i first started with my sheep. From what i understand its more to do with the nutrient levels in the feed rather than how the feed is presented, although in saying that I think generally the pencils/nuts tend to have different levels than the coursemix, no matter what 'brand' you use.

So, pencils/nuts look like nuggets and have the feed value spread evenly throughout.
...... coursemix looks like a muesli type of mix and each componant will be different, but as a total gives the feed value stated on the bag. I mention this because I have noticed that when fed coursemix different ewes will prefer different parts and will pickout their favourite bits. Sometimes they will all leave certain bits (the pellets) for the birds. Logic would suggest that this means they are not getting a true ballance! On the other hand coursemix seems to be more mollassesy (sp!!) and will tempt fussy eaters.
I am not sure what 'cake' is.... could it be the highenergy feedblocks which can be left in the field for the ewes to lick whenever they want.

 i think also different things get called different names, depending on what part of the country you are in.  (eg i went round to my neighbour to let him know one of his ewes was cast....he was very confused -telling me there cant be any cast because none were in lamb!!!- this caused me even more confusion.....eventually we realised the confusion was caused by 'Cast' meaning aborted in his lingo!! whereas for me it means 'stuck on her back')

Anyway back on topic....Your feed merchant should be able to advise what they hold in stock, what they can get in for you, and what sheep the feeds are designed for. for example some feeds are not suitable for tups and tup lambs yet are Ok for the ewes (this depends on the breeding) due to natural copper levels in the feeds.

Hope this helps a little bit..Emma T

[dyedinthewool]

Hi,

I have also wondered the difference between pencills(never heard then called that until joining this forum) I've allways called them nuts (horse terminoligy) though have heard them called cake for cows.... very confusing... back to thread - difference between nuts and coarse mix, aren't they the same?? just nuts are  concentrated into the 'nut/pencil' shape.   Coarse mix is easier for lambs to eat. 

I know 'nuts' have added vitimins etc but can I feed a 'loose' feed of rolled barley, rolled oats,flaked maize and sugarbeet shreds with a SUPAlyx Super Energy Plus with Fish Oil lick instead (nuts seem so hard and boring!!!).

[robert waddell]

in the old days there used to be BOCM British oil and cake mills as the name suggests oil was extracted from a Host of products and the waste was pelleted and sold as animal feed(nothing wasted in industry even the dangerous chemicals) cake was the large pellets pencils were the smaller ones there also used to be cake breakers that were hand cranked course mixture is a more palatable feed for all animals
our sheep/lambs prefer Carr's course mix rather than harbro

[andywalt]

Yes I remember it well 30 years ago...BOCM delivering the "cake" for the cows into a very large hopper in the main farm yard, we had to take the tractor and flat back trailer and empty hession sacks, fill them one by one lift them onto the trailer (30-40kg each) drive to the cow shed and we had to swing them up, two of us ..one one each end of the sack, up into the loft above the milking parlour. about 5 years later the delivery then was able to blow the cow cake(concentrate pencils) straight into the loft.

[Fleecewife]

If you feed pencils (or rolls - way too big for our sheep) be sure not to feed them to male sheep as they can cause urinary calculi (stones) with disastrous consequences (it's not copper which does this but something like manganese or magnesium - I never can remember what. Copper is toxic to sheep so shouldn't be in the feed, but is necessary in areas of low natural copper to maintain fleece colour and strength and to prevent swayback).  Coarse mix (I agree with Lillian - Carrs is best and most palateable) can be fed to both sexes and lambs too - we never bother with mini lamb pencils.  I'm not sure of the protein % in coarse mix - pencils come in I think 14% and 18%, but our primitives do very well on the coarse mix throughout pregnancy and lactation.  I would think that your Wiltshires will need 18%.

[pikilily]

yes Fleecewife.....you are right its not the copper that does it for the tups...the copper is toxic for some susseptable breeds when fed in excess to their tolerated levels.  Ooooops sorry for the confusion!    note to self...check what you are waffling on about!!!1 
Emma T

[shep53]

   Good evening my understanding is Pencils very small dia about small diary pencil used in lamb concs (concentrates ) and in coarse mix. Nuts about dia of small finger used in concs and in coarse mix oh and beet pulp .Rolls about dia of a mans thumb only in concs for ground feeding . Cake as stated is an old term for animal feed that came very large pieces like top or bottom of a jam sponge cake which as said you put through a cake breaker into palatable lumps.  CONCS are just acoarse mix put through a macine to blend together and forced through differant sized holes eg pencil/nuts/rolls. COARSE mix is also rough mix or a blend. Both concs and mixs/blends are okay for in-lamb sheep its protein 18% or better ,oil 4% or better and amounts fed which are important. The ingrediants lable will list these and if it says FOR FEEDING TO SHEEP copper and calcined magnesite levels should besafe if to high for male sheep it should state so.   hope this helps

[Fishyhaddock]

Ahha - the fog is lifting - thanks all! Much appreciated. Sounds like my coarse mix is going to be fine but I need to check the % protein - funny there's no lable on my sack so I'll nip off to the merchants to get the breakdown. I'll look to move onto Carrs as well if I can get hold of them.

By the way my sheep have a lick and are getting through a 20kg bucket in about 2 months - what's the problem with that you may ask but there are only 4 of them !!!! (2 gimmers and 2 wethers). I think in truth the boys are taking more than the ewes in lamb - should I remove for a while - can they be getting too much of a good thing? They seem fine and their stools are all normal....

Finally - on the question of hay - I am feeding once a day - a small amount as they are still eating it. We have grass so there is plenty for them to go at. Can I remove it without affecting the condition of the ewes prior to lambing - they have still got 9 weeks to go and it was my intention to give them hay plus the concentrate from 6 weeks onwards? Phew, that's it!

[shep53]

If your sheep are cleaning up the daily small amount of hay then they must need it ,if sheep have grass they tend to ignore hay. I would agree the wethers dont need as much feed as the in-lamb gimmers.

[fifixx]

Hi - I feed my goats B & W smallholder Unistock organic feed - it is a mix of straights with some soya for the protein - £9.75 a 25kg bag.. Brilliant - have used it for my pigs and chickens (when I run out of layers pellets!)  http://www.bwfeeds.com/smallholder-range.php