[SallyintNorth]

First time calver, calved in the night, some folks heard noise and one texted me but I hadn't expected her to calve tonight (checked at 9pm, there was a bit of slime but she's had a bit of that before, didn't think pin bones were relaxed anything like enough, and due date is Thursday and they almost never calve on the due day, let alone early) and I didn't wake.

Bonny calf, and she'd licked it clean, but dead when we went to this morning after I saw the text on waking. 

She's a dairy cow, so it could be worse, but it's a bummer.

If it was her not licking it quickly enough or not clearing the nose quickly enough, she will know for another time.

She has been milked now, and is grazing, so hopefully as a first-timer, she won't grieve too much or too long. 

We still have Hillie's orphaned calf here, now nearly 5 months old, and the other in-calf heifer is due in about 10 days.  I can't see us making a set-on work with Odin in the picture, so am going to see if we can book a calf post-weaning to be a pal for Tulip's calf - and fingers crossed all goes well with that one!

[Rosemary]

That's not the cow you posted the photos of the calf moving?
Very sad; Blizz was distraught when she had the dead calf. So was I.

[harmony]

Oh Sally I am sorry. 

[SallyintNorth]

That's not the cow you posted the photos of the calf moving?
Very sad; Blizz was distraught when she had the dead calf. So was I.

No, this is the other in-calf heifer.  Tulip's will be okay; it's due in 11 days.

Lulu is a bit mopey but it's her first time so she doesn't really know what's going on.  If it had been a second or later calver, I would have got a set-on.

[Fleecewife]

That's sad Sally and it always seems such a waste when an animal dies for no obvious reason.  Hopefully she will have better luck next time.

[PipKelpy]

Don't mean to upset, but where's Hillie?

[SallyintNorth]

Don't mean to upset, but where's Hillie?

Ah.  I posted obits otherwhere and didn't do TAS....  Odin is Hillie's calf.   

My beautiful girl Hillie (Wheelbirks Impuls Scent, Best Cow in the World) turned up her toes yesterday

She was 12 years old, was rearing her 8th calf, had given us gallons and gallons and gallons of incredible milk over the last 3 years, and in the preceding 7 years in Cumbria had, in addition to providing milk for the household, reared umpteen calves (besides her own), fed dozens and dozens of orphan lambs over the years and a few pigs besides, not to mention several puppies. She generously let us teach countless volunteers, visitors and new members to milk on her.

She had a huge personality, was always Spokescow for any herd she was in, and had an incredible ability to communicate to her humans what she or the herd needed. She wasn’t a one for “fuss”, but it was clear that she had an attachment - which was mutual - to the people who cared for her and milked her, nonethless.

She owed us nothing, and although it was a horrible shock yesterday, I am in a way glad for her that she got to live out her days here, with her daughter Flare and her new calf Odin, right to the very end.

Bless you lovely girl .  We will take good care of Odin for you xxxx

[PipKelpy]

So sorry!

Mum had a 27 year old Ayrshire that she found dead in the field in 1995. Though it upset her, even now she says it was the best way. I'm beginning to feel the same. My 'Darlings' this year have each had problems and decisions may have to be made. It's the ONE time I seriously think I could do with a bad TB test, cos then the decision is out of my hands.

[SallyintNorth]

We had made the decision that we would not breed Hillie again.  She had milk fever this last time, first time ever, and although I now know avoiding action we could take, given that she had rattley lungs and was getting low-grade mastitis once or twice per lactation, we had though we would run her through one last time, use her steady presence to train a bought-in replacement, plus all the new handmilkers here...  It made me wonder if she'd heard us and thought, "No!  No way!  All that work then off to the freezer?  I don't think so!"  If we had the ground we would have planned to let her live out her days, but we simply don't.  So she saved me having to see her off, which would have been way harder than finding her dead by the water trough.

[graemeatwellbank]

Bad experience recently.
Had a first time heifer (Shetland) in labour and she presented one foot forward.
12:30 Sunday night phoned the vet who managed to manipulate the other foot forward but after pushing and pulling and jacking for some time it was decided to deliver by Cesarean Section.
So ultimately at about 5:00 we got the calf out.
Mother was not in the mood so I fed with colostrum followed by several other doses during the day.
Over the next 3 days the calf went downhill and my 7 year old son told me to get it put down to relieve its suffering. So I took him, bull calf not son, to the vet and had it put down. Blood test ultimately could not reveal anything abnormal.
Mother retained the placenta for a week before the vet dived in and pulled it out. Now she is fine but £860 quid later  I'm thinking not to breed her again although the vets says she will be fine.

[twizzel]

Bad experience recently.
Had a first time heifer (Shetland) in labour and she presented one foot forward.
12:30 Sunday night phoned the vet who managed to manipulate the other foot forward but after pushing and pulling and jacking for some time it was decided to deliver by Cesarean Section.
So ultimately at about 5:00 we got the calf out.
Mother was not in the mood so I fed with colostrum followed by several other doses during the day.
Over the next 3 days the calf went downhill and my 7 year old son told me to get it put down to relieve its suffering. So I took him, bull calf not son, to the vet and had it put down. Blood test ultimately could not reveal anything abnormal.
Mother retained the placenta for a week before the vet dived in and pulled it out. Now she is fine but £860 quid later  I'm thinking not to breed her again although the vets says she will be fine.

Nature of the beast with farming especially cattle when things go wrong they are not cheap to fix. Sorry you lost your calf. I had the vet out to drip a dehydrated calf on a Sunday afternoon- calf died that night  you win some you lose some.

[SallyintNorth]

So sorry to hear that tale, Graeme.  Horrible in every respect and to end up with no calf and a cow for culling   

If it were me, I would be doing 2 things. 

Yes, personally I would not want to breed again from a cow that had had a caesarian, although some farms operate on the basis that all calves are born this way, so I expect the vet is right and it's not an especially high risk to the cow.

But the main thing for me would be to get to the bottom of why a caesarian was needed, so as to be sure I can avoid another.  Lots of possible factors : breed and breeding of cow, breed and specific bull, feeding of the heifer calf that grew into this cow and of the in-calf heifer. 

As far as I know, Shetlands are not one of the breeds prone to needing caesarians.  Belgian Blues certainly are, British Blues less so but still more likely than many other breeds, some Limousins now more likely to.

Ex-BH had kept suckler cows for more than 40 years, and then I added a few Jerseys to the mix.  He'd stopped using and breeding Charollais bulls when he was getting too many caesarians, and switched to keeping an Angus bull and using a bit of AI : some Angus but also using the odd other breed for interest. 

We bought a cow from a friend's displenishment sale.  She was a very nice, very friendly Limousin (a breed we mostly avoided but we'd wanted to help set our friend up for his retirement), and we decided to use a good Limi bull on her.

First caesarian on that farm for 20 years...

Another farmer was with us when the vet pulled the strapping great calf out of her.  We named him Side Door, lest we forget how he entered this world...    A few months later, said visiting farmer called wanting the details of the bull we'd used.  I had made a note in our book to make sure we didn't use him again, so looked it up and passed them on.  That farmer used that bull on his new herd of British Blue crosses... :/  And yes, had some caesars and some losses - but was only interested in the ones that survived and made top dollar at the mart.  Not our way of farming.  (Side Door did fetch more than any other calf ever sold from our farm, and the whole story left a healthy profit even after accounting for culling the cow and paying the vet bill.  But it was not a story we ever wished to repeat.)

[twizzel]

To be fair, we have cows in our herd that have had sections- some due to malpresented calves, 1 due to being a teenage mum, 1 due to oversized bull calf. All went on to get back in calf in a timely order, all had subsequent calves naturally no problems. I think we’ve had 1 heifer that didn’t get back in calf so she was culled.  All Limousin cross cows to a lim bull.