Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Help with bringing sheep in  (Read 6183 times)

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2019, 08:51:09 pm »
Hiya,


Take heart. I've been exactly the same position before. I'd say do your best to tame these ones up, but don't feel wedded to them. If those sheep or that breed aren't working out for you, don't be afraid to change.

Our last Manx Loaghtan plus the two most wary Zwartbles went to the abbatoir last week and wow, what a difference! I can now pen any of the sheep any time I like, whether I have food with me or not.


Back in the day, with our Manxes, I resorted to all kinds of things - electric fencing, gates on long lengths of rope, the lot! The most successful was to build a maze of hurdles, then feed them inside it. The key was to feed them a little bit inside the 'trap' every day, and every day make the maze one hurdle longer. The reason it was a maze was because although sheep can run faster than I can, they can't change direction quickly, so I could run up and shut the gate on them if I needed to. Of course, once caught like that, they then became wary again, so it wasn't a solution for catching them repeatedly!


You'll find a way, but once again, if these sheep are causing you grief, either tame them up or ship them out. Smallholding is supposed to be rewarding and fun at the end of the day!! Oh, and I'm afraid they will teach their lambs the same behaviour, so if you want to keep the lambs tame as a new starter flock, be very careful never to chase them around.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2019, 09:38:26 pm »
We got them penned yesterday as the guy came to collect his tup so brought his dog again. This is when he did the Crovect (straight nozzle used, in a line neck to tail which is same as I read but he also did the rump as you would fly strike prevention). At that time we didn’t know whether to keep them in that field or move them, then a couple broke out so let them all go.

When I first called him about the wool loss I think he was angling that the ewes gave it to his ram, but the ram was itching a lot worse than any of the others. Plus we’re a closed flock (prior to him coming in) and none of our fields border other farmers. More evidence is that the Radnors aren’t showing signs of any issue. They shared a fence line with the Badger ewes but were always a field away when the hire tup came in.

All sheep have been treated at the same time and as per the product instructions.

The field we wanted to move them to is a neighbours and not conjoined with any of ours. The grass where they are at the moment is eaten down and the ground is soft where we’ve had so much rain. We have been giving them a bit of hay to compensate for the grass (I wonder what people do with less land? If you feed them hay won’t they still choose to keep eating the grass away?)

We have built two holding pens. One covers three fields and the other covers two. Trouble is we can’t quad on the land due to the softness so have had to make a hurdle pen using the gate next to a hard surfaced track (I like using gates as part of it as they’re higher than hurdles). So we do similar to what has been said - make a pen with a hurdle to swing shut and then utilise the fence line on one side and hurdles the other to make a funnel. Yesterday some went in the first part and were shut in as bait for the rest. When they followed in we pulled round the end of the funnel. Then pushed them all in the far section. We try and keep them penned tight so they can’t run and jump out etc.

We can get them going along the fence line in a group, but inevitably they start to spread out so they’re in a longer line. Then we get a couple that slow down and stare at us before dashing off and taking the others with them. They don’t keep in a tight flock. So we make the end of the funnel wide but they break off before we get to it. We have two hay racks we could utilise as well but again the field is so soft I think it’ll churn it up rolling them over.

I completely get that sheep are wary of you and the idea that if all you do is things they don’t like they’re not going to want to come near you. The last time we got them in our neighbours helped but it took forever and involved a lot of shouting to try and keep them bunched up which on reflection is not something I want to repeat. I think being calm is the best approach.

It’s evident from all that’s been said that we’ve dropped the ball with the bucket training. We did go in their field and sit with a bucket when they first came to try and get them used to us but we became so busy trying to sort the place out that we gradually stopped doing it. It’s something we will have to make time for, just start again and persevere with.

I have no doubt that we started with the wrong type of sheep! I had good reasons to pick them but probably got them from the wrong place. Saying that the other people I spoke to said theirs weren’t bucket trained either. And also too many. But we moved to a valley and can’t get machinery on some of the land so sheep were the answer to get it all under control. (But we should be able to source extra land one way or another.) The Radnors we got are totally different (although they are still resistant to handling) and will follow a bucket really nicely. Still not what you’d call tame though (apart from the ram who was far too tame and is now getting cocky!) as in they won’t let you stroke them etc (well one will but just when she feels like it).

Vet said dipping shouldn’t affect pregnancy, it would just be the stress of the situation. Unfortunately I didn’t speak to them as they called when I was out. They seemed to say the Zermex should be two injections but as far as I know that’s the 1%, not the 2%. I don’t know what else they would’ve suggested as opposed to dipping, I didn’t take the call to ask. It’s not something I want to do really but it seems an annual dip is quite normal around here.

I had hopes of getting them tamer over the winter. Will put maximum effort into gaining both flocks’ trust and

Thank you for words of encouragement. I think we are in a patch where a lot of things are going wrong for us so it all builds up into a massive issue. We’ll give it another try tomorrow. Although it’s not ideal to move if they have something the land would not be used after they leave it (owner has no livestock) and they need grass.

(Feel like the RSPCA would probably remove them if they saw them! The farmer said they didn’t look too bad, which may be the case to an experienced eye, but when it’s all new to you it just doesn’t look good :( )

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2019, 10:24:37 pm »
I totally agree - do not call the rspca. A 6 week course in everything from goldfish to hamsters does not give them any useful knowledge in farming. Although some of them think that a look- alike police uniform makes them an expert on anything that breathes.


I think you probably referred to them in jest, but they have taken away animals for less if they think they can make a high profile case out of it. So you are best avoiding them.
If you think I am exaggerating let me assure you I am speaking from experience. :rant:
For confirmation look on facebook at "The rspca did this." It makes chilling reading. :thinking:

Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2019, 11:28:04 pm »

Lots of good advice as ever.


I would just add a couple of things. Chasing your newly tupped sheep about isn't a good idea especially in this clashy weather. Make a pen as others have suggested and feed them in it. Take as long as is needed to get them to recognise what a bucket is and what it means. Put the hay rack in there. Don't attempt to shut them until you are certain they are relaxed with the set up. If they haven't much grass they'll soon learn.


Don't just rely on interlocking hurdles keeping them in if they push, tie them together.


Don't worry about the state of your field for now. It will have plenty of time to recover.


Using a pour on and leaving them in heavy rain isn't going to be that effective.


Mobile dipping is generally a sheep shower.


I'm not sure you have started with the wrong sheep and actually think you are just on a steep learning curve. If you crack it with these then what's the point in starting with some others? But if you can't get to a place where they are enjoyable to keep then yes, I would sell them. Also, if you have one or two that always cause you a problem then consider getting rid of those ones.


When you get them in again I would check their body scores.


With any animal have a clear plan for what you trying to achieve when you do anything. Think of everything that can go wrong and sort it before you start.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2019, 12:50:43 am »
I totally agree - do not call the rspca. A 6 week course in everything from goldfish to hamsters does not give them any useful knowledge in farming. Although some of them think that a look- alike police uniform makes them an expert on anything that breathes.


I think you probably referred to them in jest, but they have taken away animals for less if they think they can make a high profile case out of it. So you are best avoiding them.
If you think I am exaggerating let me assure you I am speaking from experience. :rant:
For confirmation look on facebook at "The rspca did this." It makes chilling reading. :thinking:


As I said, I live in Scotland where the SSPCA is a very different body and will help to find solutions where possible. Tommytink was sounding a bit desperate there, and I would rather see animals taken away and cared for than having someone flounder unable to care for their animals though desperate to do so.  I think though the desperation was just a brief scream and now she's able to think more clearly.  I have heard tales of the RSPCA not being helpful when they should have been, and their record for farm livestock during F&M was hateful.  OK so forget I said that bit  :relief:   I've modified my previous post!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 01:01:28 am by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2019, 07:09:56 am »
Hope the bucket training goes well, its not that difficult really. Just put the feed trough in a popular place in the field where they will see it. Put the feed in and move well away. Once one sheep takes an interest in it they should all follow. Feed them the same time (even twice a day) and they should pick up on it very quickly. Then as soon as they see you and the bucket they should come running!

If they are not eating the hay you put out for them I'd come to the conclusion that either they are getting enough from the small amount of grass you have, or that the hay isn't to their liking. Sheep much prefer soft leafy hay and mine would rather starve them eat coarse stalky hay.

If your concerned about their condition why not post a picture on here and let others advise you? Its hard to judge condition and also the fleece loss without seeing it for yourself!

Don't be too depressed, its a steep learing curve, you obviously care for them otherwise you wouldn't be posting about them. You may not have the easiest breeds of sheep, but you will learn a lot from them. I would definately buy my own ram for next season though!

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2019, 08:57:41 am »
The injectibles are a waste of time against scab with the possible exception of Cydectin LA. A shower wont work most of the time. Your crovect wont work vs lice much of the time in full fleece. Buy a load of hurdles, get them in, jab with cydectin LA, also crovect and if the neighbour gets his lot done with OP dip get yours done too

NewLifeOnTheFarm

  • Joined Jun 2016
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2019, 09:34:46 am »
As a fellow newbie, I'm into my 3rd year now, just want to say how very supportive these posts have been to the original poster, full of fantastic advice. I can't add much as my experience is limited, but we have Shetlands and Cheviots mostly, we currently have 40 ewes and 40 lambs. Hurdles were the best thing we have ever bought. We have a mixture of 4ft, 5ft, and 6ft, whatever we have been able to pick up on offer or second hand, I think we have a out 20 in total. We had to gather our lambs to do some checks other day, I was dreading it as its first time we have moved them without ewes being present, we made a huge pen at other side of gate, using fence lines as well as hurdles, and managed to funnel them into it eventually. Then gradually made pen smaller by removing a few hurdles at a time so that we could do what we needed to do in a smaller space. Moving livestock is literally the only time that we full blown shriek at eachother, it's is incredibly stressful! You will get there, you are asking all the right questions and have a lot of good advice.

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2019, 11:19:44 am »
Moving livestock is literally the only time that we full blown shriek at eachother, it's is incredibly stressful!


We leave our relationship at the cattle shed door when doing anything with the cows. It's every man for himself in there  :roflanim: 

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2019, 11:38:51 am »
Moving livestock is literally the only time that we full blown shriek at eachother, it's is incredibly stressful!


We leave our relationship at the cattle shed door when doing anything with the cows. It's every man for himself in there  :roflanim:

 :roflanim: :roflanim:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2019, 12:31:04 pm »
You’ve already had lots of good tips about moving and penning sheep and sheep psychology, but I’ll add a few more observations of my own.

Native / primitive types, and some of the more extensively farmed hill types too, are different to more commercial and downland types.  Whereas a Ryeland or a Texel is generally easily trained to a bucket, will probably eat too much good hay if it’s offered, mostly don’t challenge the opinion of many farmers that sheep are stupid, (but also rarely mount much of a challenge to their human’s instructions in terms of being chased into a pen), and can get overtame and pushy through greediness, all of which makes them relatively easy to manage in terms of moving and penning, the less domesticated types have different strengths ;p

Their ancestors learned to survive on the hill or moorland with little or no human assistance, so the prey mentality is strong, and the instincts which protect a prey animal have been honed over many many generations.    They generally can be trained to like cake and be interested in a rattling bucket, but it’s never a given than they’ll follow it; as soon as their antennae for danger or threat are tickled, the flight or fight response depresses appetite and food ceases to be of interest. 

In my experience, most of these types of sheep have plenty of brains, but their intellect is focussed on being a prey animal that stays alive, not on understanding what the human wants!  Lol.

Prey animals have to be good at reading the body language of their predators - and that includes you.  So if stand square on to them, they may take that as a threat and switch into prey mode. 

General tips for moving this type of sheep include “less is more”.  You don’t drive them the way you would drive a biddable type like a Ryeland, that will just switch them into prey mode.  You want them to feel they are making their own choices about where they go and at what pace, so your job is to make all the directions that aren’t the one you want them to go in, less appealing.  Not to chase them, but to block with non-threatening posture from a reasonable distance so they feel confident that they can turn away from you and move in a different direction.  If you get too close or your stance is threatening, they will feel pressured, may turn and face you (same applies to a dog, many farm dogs simply can’t move this type as a flock because they put too much pressure on, and often get too close in).  If you are close and they are facing you, they may not turn away at all unless you make your body language softer : turn slightly sideways on, don’t stare into their faces; keep your arms out to make yourself wider if you need to, but make like a fence, not like a snow plough ;)

While you are learning these techniques, sometimes they will run past you.  Don’t fret, just learn - that was too close and threatening, they switched into fight rather than flight, next time keep a bit further out, be a bit less dominating.

Sometimes I actually turn my back on them and pretend to be looking at the ground! 

Think about it - you are a prey animal, a predator is close to you, possibly close enough to run and grab you.  Your best bet is to face it.  You won’t feel confident to turn around and see if there’s a safe exit, unless either you are sure the predator can’t reach you, and or you are reassured that the predator is not about to make a jump for you.

Same with driving - if they feel driven, they will suspect that you are up to no good and are trying to get them cornered so you can pick one off.  So they will keep breaking away, hiding behind rushes, generally doing the opposite of what you want!

So take this desire of theirs to be where the predator is not wanting them to be and use it to your advantage.  I often walk towards them fairly square on from the direction I want them to go, then move out a bit and soften my body language.  Suddenly the place I came from looks to them like the very place I do not want them, and they make a break for it!  Then I make apparently incompetent efforts to stop them going exactly where I do in fact want them, so they are even more sure that’s where I don’t want them and are even more determined to go there!  This technique is particularly useful for getting them out of a pen through a gateway - run at them from the gateway and “let” them “beat” you and get past you - into the gateway!  Lol

Other tips include always moving them the same way into, through and out of the pens, so they learn the route.  Then when you are in the pens or penning them, there is a route which is familiar and if you make that place seem not scary, they will probably choose that.

In tandem with that, you need to be resolved to try very hard to never give them a bad experience once you do have them penned.  They remember for several times, so if they got hurt or very frightened last time, or on a recent occasion, that they went into there, they will have a reticence to go in there again. 

Keeping your cool and doing things over and over again if you have to if it isn’t working, but always calmly and without shouting, will pay dividends in the end, even if you and the folks helping you this time might be able to force the issue and do it a bit quicker this time because you are mobhanded.  You might not have so much help next time, and they will get harder and harder to manage if they are given reason to believe you will hurt them.

Even with more domesticated types you can see this behaviour.  I used to work the loading pens when we sheared on ex-BH’s farm.  If I was left to do it myself, I would get more than 80% of the sheep onto the ramp up to the race from which the shearers took their next customer without touching any sheep at all, without shouting, all very calm, using small body movements and intelligently arranged gates and hurdles. 

As soon as someone arrived to “help” and got in or leaned over and started behaving more domineeringly, getting hold of and pushing the sheep, shouting at them etc, the ramp and the route to it became scary places, and my gentle hands-off techniques for guiding the next few up there would not work.  I’d be trying to make the ramp seem like a safe route out of the pen, but they would remember seeing a flock-mate getting manhandled in there or shouted at, and would refuse to go up.

And because of all that, your friendly local farmer (with or without his or her dog) can sometimes make things worse, unless s/he has the same type of sheep and knows how to manage them.  If they are used to managing Texels, they and their dog will be far too “in your face” for a more primitive type, and, even if they manage it this time through sheer determination and perhaps quite a bit of close work by the dog, the sheep will be even harder to manage next time because they know you really are predators and they really are at risk of being caught, hurt or frightened.  So choose whose help you seek wisely. ;)

You need to act with calm, quiet confidence; if you are exuding fear, anger, uncertainty or frustration, that will make the sheep even more wary.  When you see a good, experienced shearer handling a sheep, the sheep nearly always relax against his/her legs and require very little actual restraint, because they feel the calm confidence of the handler and are reassured by it.  The first time you try to dag a sheep, you will probably find it extremely physically demanding, because your uncertainty will communicate to the sheep and make it even more nervous about being up close and personal with you, and restrained by you.  As you and the sheep get to know each other better, your confidence in yourself, and theirs that you mean them no harm, will grow, and everything will get easier.

(Much of this stuff applies to suckler cattle too, actually.  If the move gets stressful, you can forget the power of a bucket to draw them.  If you stand square on to them, they may take that as a threat and switch into prey mode.  Etc.)

And finally... things are as almost as hard with this batch of sheep right now as it gets.  You are new and inexperienced, they are new to this farm and to you, and neither of you know how to predict what the other will do!  It will get easier, it really will.

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2019, 12:41:44 pm »
And the other thing I was going to say is that for many of us, there is now very little nutrition in the grass, however green and lush it may look, so I and many others on rough pasture or marginal lands will already be feeding hay to our sheep, even if they have plenty of green stuff under their feet.

This type of sheep will only take hay if they need it, and won’t overeat on hay, so it’s pretty safe to say that if they are eating it, they need it, and you can feed them pretty much to appetite.  (These words may not apply to greedier sheep like Ryelands ;) )

So a) if you only started giving hay when the grass was gone, it’s possible these sheep are needing a bit more than they’ve been getting, and have lost some body condition, which would make them more susceptible to getting infested whereas usually they can shake off a few lice or keds, and b) they will probably still need hay anyway when you move them, even if there is grass there, so it may be better to keep them where they are and feed them as much hay as they want while you get this infestation dealt with. 

I can’t remember if you got experienced ewes or these are gimmers.  They need to be getting enough input to help them ovulate, implant and retain their embryos (and that takes more out of a gimmer than an experienced ewe who has finished growing herself), and grass alone probably won’t do it at this time of year.   So I’d be giving them hay to appetite, even after moving them.

Oh, and just to mention... I have had sheep get lice from hay which had been stored for a while, especially if the ground is wet, so they lie on the hay they didn’t eat to give them a dry bed. ;).
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2019, 01:09:48 pm »
That was a great piece on sheep psychology Sally!


Just one point on safety - never block a gateway with your body, use a hurdle or gate.  Enough people have been killed by charging sheep attempting to jump that person as they barge through the gateway to escape, throwing the person back to crack their skulls in the fall - it's happened to even the most experienced handlers who think they really know their sheep.


'How we learned to be gentle with our sheep' - I've written this somewhere before but it will be long lost in the dark depths of TAS.  When we got our first sheep, 23 years ago, the only example we had of how to handle them was from our neighbour. Ours is a very quiet neighbourhood when the wind's not howling, so sound carries.  Any gather on his place consisted of much running madly after sheep going the wrong way - lost cause- and some pretty evil cursing at his wife and children for getting it all wrong.  he was fairly young and fit at the time, so could run his Texels down, and even managed to catch our Jacobs, but never our Hebs!  On occasion he would attempt to 'train' a new sheepdog pup - a horrible  demonstration of cruelty, idiocy and stupidity - any pup was doomed.  (he is no longer allowed to keep livestock)
Then we went to collect our first tup, from a retired vet who kept both Hebs and Shetlands.  His land was a long and narrow strip, about half a mile long, with much woodland and small pastures.  The tup field was at one end, the ewes at the other.  He took the opportunity when we were there to put his tup in with his ewes at the same time as picking out our new lad.  To get his tup he basically simply opened the gate and let it wander out.  We were ready to chase it, imagining it would head off to the woods.  Retired vet said "no just leave him, he knows where he's going"  and sure enough the tup set off on his half mile walk up to the ewes field.  We were ready to rush after him to make sure he was in the right field bu the retired vet said " I'll put him in later once we've sorted your tup - he'll just stand at the gate and wait for me".  Our new tup followed the old one as far as the house and was then loaded into the trailer.  Everything was so calm, slow and just letting the animals get on with it themselves.  We immediately adopted that slow, gentle way, allowing the animals time to do their thing - it's saved us so much angst and aggro over the years, and means our flock is calm and settled.


I definitely second your comment Sally about being careful who you let help you with moving your sheep.  An arm waving, jumping, hurtling, shouting maniac used to sheep which flock can undo so much you have done in building up your sheep's confidence, turning them into scattering demons  ;D :hugsheep:











"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

kanisha

  • Joined Dec 2007
    • Spered Breizh Ouessants
    • Facebook
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2019, 03:33:22 pm »

doing anything with your sheep is easy once they know where they are going. for the most part mine do and I Don't have any problems but..... recently I wanted to change things around a bit.... the ram flock consists of youngsters and adults. the adults tend to bully the youngsters and I wanted a small number of sheep to clean up some untidy pasture. ideally  all the rams overnight together and the youngster go one way in the Morning the adults another. ...


did I swear to get the two flocks to splitoff and go in the right direction to start with.... and for the first few days... now I just call them and they obediently split off into two groups adults into one field the youngsters into another.. A little hay entices the youngsters to break off and eat without being bothered by the adults and the adults get good grazing after being in overnight. It looks so easy now but if you'd seen them in the begining . sheep are basically willing and easygoing provided there is enough incentive. Hang in there you will get it and so will they
Ravelry Group: - Ouessants & Company

Black Sheep

  • Joined Sep 2015
  • Briercliffe
    • Monk Hall Farm
Re: Help with bringing sheep in
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2019, 07:11:06 pm »
Not sure I have any great wisdom to add to the helpful thoughts so far but I did want to show that you are not alone. We're two years in to having sheep and still find things challenging. I had exactly the same problem you are struggling with a few months back. Patience, staying calm, leaving things for another day if they are getting flighty, and slow training with the bucket all helped. But on the day it felt like we were completely useless and failing at the basics.

One of my must do jobs next year is to make a point of moving the sheep a lot more often - definitely helped by getting our fencing infrastructure more complete this year. Our ewes do seem to learn the way to go - once they have done a move once or twice they get what is going to happen and will follow calmly.

One really useful point below that might be worth expanding on is about them being able to see an exit and how the ones at the back stay connected to the ones at the front and get pulled along (a bit like they do in a race). We really struggled with a move out a gateway where there was an immediate sharp turn to the right so the ones at the front would be lost from view if there was much of a gap. Eventually we ran them out to the left where they could still see each other, closed the gate, clambered round and then pushed them back the other way.

Also, if the flock has a habit of splitting then just accept that it may happen and collect them in two groups - get the leaders out and penned somewhere and go back for the rest. Keeping trying to get them to go as one group will tire you out and get them more worked up.

Keep going, you will get there :-)

 

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