[tommytink]

I’m having a difficult time trying to move my Badgers. I need to put them in a new field which for the first time isn’t linked to the one they’re currently in. I have a problem wherein I cannot get them in a pen.

Not only that but they’ve contracted what appears to be sheep scab from the ram that came in. They were treated with Zermex 2% two weeks ago but not shown any sign of improvement and looking patchy. The farmer that sold them to me came and got them in with his dog for this. Came again yesterday and gave them a squirt of Crovect should it be lice instead but he said we’d need to dip them to be clear of the problem. We didn’t dip them earlier in the year; not something I ever wanted to do and hadn’t anticipated a problem. He says it would be okay even though they’re hopefully in lamb. We’ve found a mobile dipper but this will be after Christmas sometime.

I don’t know whether to go ahead with this or speak to the vet. I don’t really want to leave them any longer as I’ve let them down already. To top it off now the fields are trashed with all the rain we keep getting. I know it’s not ideal to move them if they’re infected but it’s a single field that would be unused again for a period once they’re off it (long enough for any contagions to die).

Whatever happens I need to get them penned and with just two people it’s not happening. Are there any local services or places I could try where someone with a dog could come and get them in? I’ve looked online but can’t seem to find anything with what I’m searching. Maybe I’m the only one stupid enough to have this problem. Our neighbours helped before but it took forever and I don’t want to cause the sheep any more stress. I feel so stupid about the whole business. I don’t think this smallholding thing is working out for me.

[twizzel]

Have you had the scab confirmed by the vet? If so I’d see what the vet says r.e dipping while in lamb. They should be able to advise and work out a treatment plan.


Can you get them eating some sheep nuts, you should be able to tame them up within a week or 2 of regular feeding (not much, just a handful each day) and then they should follow a bucket?

[Rosemary]

Don't be disheartened - smallholding is full of highs and lows. We've been doing this for 20 years and thta's one thing that hasn't changed.

You need to get good veterinary advice and a treatment plan, then follow it. The let down is from the supplier of the ram, IMHO.

Might be helpful to say where you are?

[tommytink]

I’m in Carmarthenshire. Halfway between Carmarthen and Haverfordwest.

We’ve tried to get them to follow a bucket before. Maybe not as intensely as we should’ve but we got them in just coming into spring when there was plenty to eat. Their field is a mess now with so much rain.

Haven’t had the scab confirmed. Thought would either be that or lice which is why we did Crovect yesterday. Again relying on the guy who sold them to us for help and advice. Vet is going to want to take a sample but can’t get them even for that. The ram was worst affected. Got a close up view of him yesterday and could see flakes in his wool on the edge of his bald patches (which were his sides and under his tummy). Almost looked like psoriasis. I am so angry with myself as obvs should have been quarantined but we just let him go straight in as didn’t have 4 or 6 weeks, whichever it is, to wait.

I don’t know what to do but hubby has tasked me with sorting it out and I’m just coming up blank. If we can never get them in we shouldn’t have them as it means we can’t look after them properly. Feel like an idiot.

[twizzel]

If you were able to get them in, can you keep them in for a period of time? It might be worth seeing if a farmer with a dog can come help you get them in, then you can get the vet to take a skin scrape, then treat accordingly. At the same time get them used to feed and only let them out once they are tamer. I bought a group of ewes a few years ago from a hill farm, they had never seen straw before and were wild as coots    I shut them in for nearly a month, got them eating cake, used to people and only let them out once I was happy they would follow me and a bucket. There’s 1 that’s still wild but the rest are fairly easy to move now.

[bj_cardiff]

Its always a good idea to bucket train sheep ready for this sort of situation.

Make up a large pen, if your short of hurdles maybe against an existing fenceline. Start feeding the sheep every day and move the feeder closer and closer to the pen and gradually move the feeder inside it and feed in the pen. Then step over the fence and close up the gap while their eating.

It might take a while to get them used to it though. My experience (Contrary to one man and his dog), is that you can't 'force' a sheep into a hurdle pen, you persuade them.

[SallyintNorth]

 

We all have stories like that.  Mine, very similar to yours, but the farm was over 1,000 acres of predominantly moorland and we had more than 500 sheep! .  My biz partner was an experienced farmer, but gathering that many semi-feral hefted Swaledales on that amount of that terrain was new to her too... well, we managed, but it certainly taxed us!

It was our hoggs that got infested, we never did find out why.  Except that the first winter can be very stressful even for such hardy sheep as those, and the bugs take advantage if the sheep are stressed.  Subsequent winters we kept the hoggs on easier ground, and gave them a little cake right through their first winter.  We never had the problem again.

If it’s scab you have every right to be absolutely livid with the owner of the ram - and the farm he was on last.   

Crovect is not effective against scab.  Nor is it effective against sucking lice, nor keds.  It will control - but not eradicate - chewing lice (aka biting lice), and ticks, but only if correctly applied for the target parasite, which in my experience, older farmers often don’t do.  They use the applicator they like and spray it on the way they like, and it won’t always give adequate protection for the problem you have at that moment.  Sigh. 

I’m unable to fathom how you’ve managed to Crovect them yesterday but can’t get them penned?  How did you Crovect them?

Any treatment for any of these contagious beasties is only as good as your ability to gather and treat every single sheep, to not allow a treated sheep to come into contact with an untreated one nor with any fence, wall or tree or hedge an untreated one could have rubbed against in the last week or two, or indeed after you treat your sheep...

So if you share a boundary with another sheep or cattle keeper, you need to ‘fess up and all agree to treat all your animals on the same day, or one of you move your animals to a non-contiguous field. 

When we had our traumas with the Swaley hoggs, we used Dectomax first but it didn’t work and in the end Crovect did.  So if you can’t get a robust diagnosis, you need two clean fields you can use.  One to move them to after the first treatment and the second in case the first treatment doesn’t work! 

[SallyintNorth]

No farmer will want to bring his or her working collie to round up infested sheep, as the bugs could infest the collie and then the home flock. 

Sheep like yours won’t be easy to bucket train when there’s good grass, but they will be hungry now, and feeling fairly ropey with that infestation, so you should find they are much much keener on cake right now.  Possibly even to the point of being less cautious around you

For another year, give the tup (with the owner’s agreement and the vet’s advice) a complete de-infest.  I suspect you can’t give Crovect and Dectomax at the same time, but you might find Trodax or something has better coverage for the beasties you are likely to have on your farm - or on an arriving tup.  I give arriving tups a worm and fluke dose here.

[Fleecewife]

I think sheep are the cause of many marriage breakdowns!


Definitely speak to the vet.  He or she may be able to help with catching even one of the sheep for a scrape, especially if there's a student to help, or they may know of someone with a dog.  All is not doomed!


I'm not quite clear on the arrangement of the fields.  You say the field the sheep are in is not next door to where they are to go.  Is there some connection through other fields?  If so, open the gate into the next field and leave it open overnight.  By the morning the sheep should have taken themselves through.  Then do the same to the next field, and so on until you reach the field they are to be in.  Let them move themselves - they will always go to the best grass.  Or do you have to move them to another field away from your property?
A way I devised to pen sheep on my own when my husband was deathly ill one year, was to use a length of electric sheep mesh, not electrified.  I laid it out in a funnel shape using a fence as one side and mesh for the other, firmly tensioned at each post, and leading into a pen with a gate which could be swung shut.  Back then I could still run, just.  I drove the sheep into the wide end of the funnel as calmly as I could then ran the last bit when they realised they couldn't keep going and swung the gate shut behind them.  A later modification was to make the pen double with a small gap across the middle, then I would wait until they had all gone through before running to shut the gate - they couldn't all run back because of the second small gap.  The far end of the pen should have the appearance of a way out ie not be solid, as sheep will not run into a trap.  The main thing is to keep calm - sheep are all too aware of your body language so if you are desperate or angry they will react with fear and scarper.  If it doesn't work the first time, take down the mesh and leave it til tomorrow.  Don't leave the mesh in the field as they will become entangled.  Also, if one sheep gets left behind, don't chase it as you'll not catch it, but meantime the rest will scatter.  As long as you have most of them in, then the stragglers will beg to be let in after a while.


Following a bucket is not something which comes easily to certain breeds of sheep, so it can take a while to get them interested.  In our experience, if the sheep were not used to feed when you get them it can take until after they have lambed before they will eat it, so it's fine for tame sheep, but not for ferals.


Have a good think about your sheep and your whole enterprise.  Perhaps you started off with the wrong breed, or with too many sheep. [Ignore this bit - see later post -  If you are absolutely desperate then I wonder if the RSPCA would help?  We are in Scotland and the SSPCA definitely would, but I'm not sure about the English equivalent. ] Above all, don't panic.  It's been said many times that if you've made the wrong decision with sheep, well, you can always eat them, then start again with just a few of a quieter breed until you have learnt how to handle them.  There's nothing to be ashamed of in getting it wrong - unless you have grown up to it, then you cannot know it all before you start.  We are all here to help if we can.

[SallyintNorth]

I feel so stupid about the whole business. I don’t think this smallholding thing is working out for me.

Don’t give up, tt, you are clearly made of the right stuff and you will get there.   

Being made to feel an idiot and that you shouldn’t be given charge of animals is something that never stops happening, just with a lot of work and quite a bit of luck, it gets less frequent and you find ways through and past it more readily.   

I said to my cows just this afternoon, “Well I’ve been doing this for ten years now and you two are making me feel like I know absolutely nothing.”  True story.   

So you’ve had a horrible set of circumstances, and find yourself in quite a pickle to sort it out.  You will learn so much as you work your way through all this!  And you will make some changes so that another time it won’t catch you out so badly.  That’s farming.  Anyone who tells you they never have problems they think might beat them is lying, or doesn’t look at their animals properly.

[SallyintNorth]

I have to go now but I will write some notes later about sheep psychology, and moving the warier type of sheep

[SallyintNorth]

Good info here about the various ectoparasites and their control.  It’s Scottish so scab is notifiable, but the lifecycle and meds stuff applies wherever you are.

Eblex and SCOPS are bound to have some good materials too, do some googling

[mab]

For single handed corraling of sheep (if the bucket fails) i do exactly what fleecewife described with sheep netting - i might use more of a trumpet shape than funnel perhaps.


  If you don't have sheep netting then anything you have that works as a visual barrier: pallets, cars, roof sheets, whatever you have. The last bit where they start crowding needs to be more resilient in case the more nervous individuals try and run into it so i have a few hurdles for that.

[landroverroy]

I have a Welsh Badger Faced ewe (only one now!) and know how difficult they are to round up once they start to feel hunted. And once it gets to the stage where the only serious attention they get is when you want to gather them, then you've actually programmed them to try and evade you.  I was given my sheep, Princess, by a friend who found her impossible to catch, unless I came with my dog; and even then she was a nightmare because she knew that the dog meant we were going to catch here. I've had her a while now and she is that tame that she now comes when she sees me and actually jumps up on me, like a dog, for treats. So what's changed? Well I don't hunt her.
I go in the field daily with treats and an attitude that it's a matter of complete indifference whether she comes or not. Think about it - if you were a prey animal like a sheep would you go anywhere near  humans when all they did was chase you round a field? How would you feel if a pack of them tried to gather you in a similar way that wolves do? Would you not want to keep as much distance as possible between you and them? Well that's what Princess was like. But now I can gather her and her friends even without my dog, as he is getting old and I haven't trained the pup up yet.


I find the best thing for treats is chopped up carrots because you can throw them a distance and they can be easily seen on the grass. So you need to go daily and just throw the treats to the sheep. Don't even look them in the face when you do it so they don't feel you are eyeing them, ready to pounce.


You need to make a substantial pen of hurdles. And I mean substantial with strong metal hurdles that they can't jump over, or permanent fencing. This will probably cost money and time. But you must have a decent penning system if you're going to keep livestock, or you are setting yourself up for failure. (As you have discovered.) You will use it so many times, once you've got it - like at lambing time, for worming them and in fact for any sort of examination. How else are you going to catch one in an emergency?


So once they've got used to you coming to the field just to feed them, and without an obvious ulterior motive, they will become relaxed and happy to approach you. At some time then get them used to having treats and being fed in the pen. This is easy at this time of year, with little grass. Get them used also to you being near the pen when they are in it; because, believe me, standing a way off and then just running to close the gate once they're all enclosed will not work. They will all dash to the gate first
and most will be out before you've closed it, and then you're back to square one!
It'll probably take a few weeks to build up their trust, but  the permethrin  (Crovect) you've applied will set back the scabs or lice for the time being but is not a total solution. I had a similar episode some years ago, when a ram I lent out came back with scab and I didn't realise till the sheep were just weeks off lambing so dipping wasn't an option. I injected them with dectamax (similar to Zermax) which was 100% effective.


I would be inclined to keep them in their present field till they have been treated - give them some hay to be going on with. No point in getting another field infected.

[shep53]

So long as the products have been given at the correct rates and in the correct way then both lice and scab should be under control   . Zermex 2%  an injection under the skin of the neck of 3ml for your badger ewes and 5ml for the ram will kill and protect for 60days  scab ( mites can only survive for 17 days off sheep in post /trees etc ) Crovect  a pin stripe from head to tail  of 30ml  ( the tick rate ) and then allowed to dry for 4hrs will kill lice ( lice can survive off sheep up to 5days )      You must treat all your sheep at the same time if they have or had contact even through a fence or if you have handled them without a change of cloths  and you must tell your neighbours  ( even birds may move mites / lice on their legs )    To move the sheep as others say make a very large funnel with net that has some way to close the end  .  If you put out a trough where the sheep like to graze and put in a small amount of feed , once they are eating you can feed twice per day and stand at a distance they are happy with and talk to them then every day move the trough  and stand a little closer