NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Stolen Goats!  (Read 758 times)

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Stolen Goats!
« on: April 13, 2019, 12:59:31 am »
Hello!

Tonight after we put our chickens to bed between 8- 8.30 pm and when we went to put our goats to bed at 10 pm we found that 7 of our goats were taken from our land. We have 3 paddocks enclosed by heras fences. This is apart from the field having another heras fence that enclosed it - all 3 were opened. We were left with only 2 goats and their kids which we put away in a barn earlier in the evening due to having just kidded this last week.

These goats are beloved pets - not only am I saying it that we love these goats but they are also attached to us, and this land - so not likely to 'run away'. In the few times they've ever escaped, they remained on the land. We have hay close by and plenty of good trees/bushes which would have been far more enticing than to run further afield. Their housing and paddocks are relatively close-by but not so much that we heard anything.

I am hoping that people on here might hear something or at the very least know any avenues that we could take to recover our loved pets.

We've already put in a police report, notified any close-by neighbours who we have contact with around us (and we're semi-rural so there are residents which seeing a goat in their back garden would be note-worthy and frighteningly noticeable).

Please anyone help!
Voss Electric Fence

Dogwalker

  • Joined Nov 2011
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 05:32:33 am »
Which area are you in?What sort of goats?
Is there a local fb group you could notify or fb goat groups to spread the word.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 07:26:56 am »
A mixture - a GG x Togg, a pygmy/Nigerian Dwarf billy, 2 pygmy mixes - female, and a family we recently took on of a mum, daughter and son which are pygmy/British goat.

We are in Yorkshire - Keighley. I am on FB with groups - but please spread the word as well!

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 04:57:07 pm »
Sadly this seems to be becoming a regular scenario.  In addition to the FB groups, it's worth listing them on www.doglost.co.uk (not just for dogs), contacting the local radio and tv stations (if it's a slow news day they may run the item) and newspapers.  Someone may have seen something that helps.  List in as many of the local community groups as you can and get everyone to share on social media - there are a few twitter specific goat accounts that are good for re-tweeting stuff like this too.  Bear in mind that they may have been transported quite some distance, so getting pictures of them "out there" will help to spread the word if they're being sold on in another location.

Were they tagged or identichipped?  Photos showing markings will help.  It's also worth trawling the mart sites to find out if there are any upcoming sales and notifying all of them of the stolen animals with descriptions/photographs so that if they turn up there they may be identified and appropriate action taken to establish who has brought them in and under what circumstances.

Fingers crossed you get some answers and they're home safely soon.
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2019, 05:51:55 pm »
I bet it was a case of kidnapping ….I'll get me coat.

Hope you get them back safe &  sound
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

Mad Goatwoman of Madeley

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Telford
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 11:15:22 pm »

We are in Yorkshire - Keighley. I am on FB with groups - but please spread the word as well!


Do you belong to Goaty Friends on FB? You could get it shared from there.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 02:24:53 pm »
Sadly this seems to be becoming a regular scenario.  In addition to the FB groups, it's worth listing them on www.doglost.co.uk (not just for dogs), contacting the local radio and tv stations (if it's a slow news day they may run the item) and newspapers.  Someone may have seen something that helps.  List in as many of the local community groups as you can and get everyone to share on social media - there are a few twitter specific goat accounts that are good for re-tweeting stuff like this too.  Bear in mind that they may have been transported quite some distance, so getting pictures of them "out there" will help to spread the word if they're being sold on in another location.

Were they tagged or identichipped?  Photos showing markings will help.  It's also worth trawling the mart sites to find out if there are any upcoming sales and notifying all of them of the stolen animals with descriptions/photographs so that if they turn up there they may be identified and appropriate action taken to establish who has brought them in and under what circumstances.

Fingers crossed you get some answers and they're home safely soon.

Unfortunately someone else suggested the dog site, what that opened us up to was a blackmailer/extortionist who said if we want the goats back pay £1000. We had the police listen to the call, and they said this often happens with lost dogs. Nice huh?

The goats were tagged but let's face it, those will be gone in a heartbeat. We have gone around to various auctions nearby, but without knowing where these culprits could go with the goats - we could be needle in a haystack to search out wider and wider to different auctions. Don't misunderstand, I'd do it - I'd do it in a heartbeat to get them back but I may call one and not the other, miss one that sees them. It's daunting. As you said they could travel distance - but what direction? North, South, East, West.

Could I post some photos on here and if anyone on here could pass it along on their networks, areas - that would be great. I've gone on to various social groups, put adverts out there, canvassed neighbours, looked for evidence left, we've contacted feedstores nearby, made posters, contacted local auctions, and also slaughterhouses - which I break down in tears even writing. I am writing something to try to put out there on the media as I find it shameful that this is going on all over the place and really no one in authority is doing anything. No one came to see where we had been broken into - the reason it happened to us, and will happen to someone else, you, your neighbour, a friend - is that unless you can provide a lead, there's little they will do. Somehow animal lives, and the hardships the owners go through isn't really, truly, a crime.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 02:44:27 pm »
Here are some of the photos of our goats - our GG cross, our male, a female with family (son & daughter) which we recently brought on in February (so she and the kids may look a bit different - they had grown up even more than the advert suggested so the one photo shows them a few months after being born, we bought them at 7 months but I hadn't gotten any pictures any of them since we took them on)

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2019, 02:46:39 pm »
This is of the two other females which were heavily pregnant and another of the billy.

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2019, 07:06:19 pm »
I do hope you find your goats. Sheep were taken up our way a few weeks ago, not for the first time I may add. :rant:

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2019, 11:01:23 pm »
I do hope you find your goats. Sheep were taken up our way a few weeks ago, not for the first time I may add. :rant:

Why is this allowed to go on? Nothing seems to happen to bring these people to justice. Why? We all place a value on those we love - I love my goats, so why is that less valuable than anyone else? If a dog worries a sheep a farmer has the right to shoot it, right? But if a human (and I use that word lightly here as I am not sure it really applies to this group) steals sheep or goats, possibly kills them? Obviously as humans, we aren't able to take the law into our own hands. But those that can, they just turn their head, they don't even attempt to capture them.

One big reason it happened to you, happened to me - was that it happened to someone before us, but nothing was done.

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 09:25:26 am »

Unfortunately someone else suggested the dog site, what that opened us up to was a blackmailer/extortionist who said if we want the goats back pay £1000. We had the police listen to the call, and they said this often happens with lost dogs. Nice huh?

The goats were tagged but let's face it, those will be gone in a heartbeat. We have gone around to various auctions nearby, but without knowing where these culprits could go with the goats - we could be needle in a haystack to search out wider and wider to different auctions. Don't misunderstand, I'd do it - I'd do it in a heartbeat to get them back but I may call one and not the other, miss one that sees them. It's daunting. As you said they could travel distance - but what direction? North, South, East, West.

Could I post some photos on here and if anyone on here could pass it along on their networks, areas - that would be great. I've gone on to various social groups, put adverts out there, canvassed neighbours, looked for evidence left, we've contacted feedstores nearby, made posters, contacted local auctions, and also slaughterhouses - which I break down in tears even writing. I am writing something to try to put out there on the media as I find it shameful that this is going on all over the place and really no one in authority is doing anything. No one came to see where we had been broken into - the reason it happened to us, and will happen to someone else, you, your neighbour, a friend - is that unless you can provide a lead, there's little they will do. Somehow animal lives, and the hardships the owners go through isn't really, truly, a crime.

Yes there are some sad individuals out there who will try to make commercial gain from any situation.  However, that site also emails all the volunteers in the area with posters of the animals concerned so if anyone saw anything or sees anything then you have a lot of people looking.

I get really annoyed when I see people posting rewards for animals that have been stolen - all that does is create a market for the next theft.  I'm speaking as someone who had 2 ponies stolen when I was a child - and yes, there had been a spate of them before where people had paid up.  We didn't.  One pony escaped and came home after a few days; the other took almost a fortnight before we got a tip off to find him.  He had been ridden in a barbed wire bridle, and was hobbled with barbed wire to stop him wandering.  We found him at gone 11 in the evening dripping in sweat and blood and in an awful state and then had to walk him home (no box back then).  5 police cars passed my father and brother walking him the 7 miles home - mum and I had gone to get the garden shed ready for him as a stable because it was too late to take him back to the livery yard and get the farmer out of bed.  After we'd got things ready we went back to see where they were and within 100 yards of them, we were pulled over by the police "Where are you going, where have you been, what are you doing out at 1 in the morning?".  I thought they were going to arrest my father that night because he went ballistic.  We'd been phoning them every few hours from the time he'd been reported stolen (before mobile phones or even answer machines and we were out looking for him so wanted to check if there was any news).  The police don't take animal theft seriously at all.  There are farm watch and horse watch schemes but they are rarely useful in my experience.  I've even heard of instances where there was video footage of the individuals, knowledge of who they were and where the animals were being kept and still the police refused to go onto the site to investigate because they didn't want trouble kicking off.

I had a similar situation about 20 years after the first one - armed robbery from my stables.  We had an inkling it was going to happen and an earlier disturbance had resulted in us calling the police - they'd left less than 10 minutes before it kicked off, but it was 2 hours before they could get back to us.  We were told not to pursue the culprits (which we ignored and followed them to the point they put up a road block and pointed weapons at us).  We never got those horses back.  The mare had been loaded into a trailer by driving a car into her back legs and catapulting her into the trailer by slamming the brakes on.  I heard later she'd been catastrophically injured and was shot by the thieves.  The foal was never recovered.

In my view there should be more serious penalties for animal theft than for inanimate object theft because of the psychological harm and physical pain these animals may suffer but our politicians seem unwilling to change the law on this matter.

In terms of the auctions, I wasn't suggesting you visit all of them.  Get the animals details circulated to them and ask them to notify you of any sales where goats are entered and to send you pictures of the goats concerned so that you can check - agree a day of the week when you can call them and ring every week to keep it fresh in their minds.

I see your photos are being circulated on FB and I've shared as have a number of other people in my network.  I really hope they are found safe and well and returned to you.
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 12:40:20 pm »
Hi Scarlett,

Thanks for your heartfelt story. I know you weren't trying to tell me to go to all the various auctions, I was just saying - I'm pulling my hair out to know which direction to go. I am trying everything to find them and where do I put my best efforts? It's even hard here as we have other pets - pets which need care and time - which do we choose? Time to care for them, time to now double up protection for any remaining, or time to finding the ones that are lost? Which do we save - the ones lost or the ones in danger? The police do nothing to help. They are the ones with tools, resources, knowledge - and we're grieving, scared and overwhelmed and unknowledgeable. Maybe that's unfair - the police will say we're overrun with budget constraints and limited people. That might be true, but so is our story. We're ill-equipped to do investigations, our work in those veins will take longer than they would based on knowledge and experience. We also have to now protect the others, we live in fear each morning of what might happen. We also live in fear that if it does, there is nothing anyone is going to do.

when I say that, I don't mean the kind people on FB - I mean I am preaching to the choir there (mostly). These are the people who care, but is that reaching those who don't? No. I had on one site I wrote to - people saying 'steak & chops' or 'Curry!' - I reported this to facebook and they said we don't see that as a problem, we'll not do anything. Thankfully the site owner wrote to me this morning and said they removed it. But an institution like Facebook cannot see that people writing that to people who are grieving, fearful, wanting their love-ones back is terrible - is complicit in the vehicle which makes this possible. A relationship with an animal is symbiotic, it's an object, we provide them with food/housing/safety and they provide us with 'our belief' of companionship. But that is actually true about all relationships - they are all symbiotic. Human relationships still meet 2 parties needs. We value some more than others depending on how they meet said needs. We don't value someone else's mother, more than our own. why? Because our mother is more important to our survival or meeting a functional need of ours, or meeting the need of companionship. I do not say any of this to devalue human relationships, only to say that we all have our values we place on the companions we value - for some it is a parent, another it is their children, another is it their dog, another it is their goats, another it is their horse. And in all of these cases, these are lives - breathing lives, not an object. I realise that an object may still be of sentimental value, so I also caution not to devalue it - but psychologically losing a life you find precious to you, be they human or animal, is devastating. We lost 7 goats we love. How often do people lose 7 lives close to them in one moment? It happens in catastrophic or genocidal conditions - and it is PTSD worthy at that point. I lose 7 lives, 2 of which were heavily pregnant - and that is just an object to many, not personal for me, or as personal as if they lost a love one, or 7.

No one knows what they mean to me - their life, the care of bringing them up from kids in some cases, to see their pen and not feel like a person seeing the room of someone who's died and feeling such grief, to feel that the future you planned with that person or animal blighted by it. How can they determine what that means for me, anymore than I could determine that a co-worker should mean less than a family member, or a family member more than a friend. It would all be contingent on the meaning that person placed on that relationship - for one person that co-worker might be a soldier they fought with side-by-side, or a police member who save their life, for another their family far outweighs that of a co-worker. One person may not like their family but their friends are their family, for another it would be reverse. We cannot tell someone how to value their companionships and when they lose them, say well at least it wasn't a '....' because they may have valued this above all else. This may be their family, they may have a value they associate to it that you cannot understand, worse still you don't want to.

When i talk to people on FB - they are people like me, or partially like me, but is that reaching people who say 'Curry' or 'steak & chops'? To say how would it feel like if someone upon your child, family, friend, co-worker being taken - saying Jeffrey Daumer? Some who read this may think I am rude to suggest such a thing about a human - and if I were honestly suggesting that, I'd agree. But as they cannot ascertain what these goats meant to me, don't devalue my fear, my grief, my love and reduce it down to a joke standard.

When someone is kidnapped, they tell a story on the news, in media to personalise that person so the kidnapper sees them as a living creature, not an object. I want to personalise my animals - but politicians, police, kidnappers, people societally, want to objectify them...but they are objects to me. And I realise that humans trade in animals - sell on pups, kids, kittens, lambs, even adult animals. This may seem like they are objectifying them, I don't see it that way as we with all of our human relationships, we have to find ways to distance ourselves, give them a chance to live their lives, be enjoyed by others and to enjoy others. We put children up for adoption if they cannot be cared for, we let our children go and marry someone else and develop their own family, we let parents re-marry or find love. Selling on animals is also part of finding means of distance, giving them a chance to live lives as well. The means of money, hopefully, is just a means of weeding out the worst to help discern a good life for the pets that they can't determine themselves, as we hope our parents, children, or adoption agency might do.

Sorry if this is long-winded but like you, I feel that my goats, we are, a victim to a pattern. It's happened before us, it will happen after us. I am them, they are me. I've spoken to people on the phone since this has happened who had it happen to them just recently - they say the same things I do. And the person after me, will to. The loss, the grief, the hope, the need to believe desperately they're ok. But the reason I happen, and the person after me will - is that the preceding incident didn't get responded to. Yes, I recognise that this is not the 100% answer - I'm not naive to think that every pursuit of justice stops the crime full-stop - but I can say with certainty that the lack of pursuit will ensure it does happen again and again. One thief caught is 10 people saved and how many animals saved. That is a certainty. One person caught, maybe penalised, maybe rehabilitated - is a message to other thieves. This only reduces the number of incidents, victims of the psychological trauma of losing an animal and the animals themselves.

I could get into dicier areas of history and our values we placed on other human lives, and how we de-valued those when we felt it appropriate - be they religion, race, affiliation, orientation...but I can assure you that each of those lives were loved by someone. We didn't understand them, but it didn't mean they weren't loved and cherished and grieved. For me, a pet is something that the greater world hasn't understood is a relationship, a valued one by those who love it, not those who look on it without understanding it, or understanding love is the only objectivity we can have, not the subject of that love. Otherwise we can always reduce someone's loss to our own values and say it can be replaced, it can be bought and the person on the other end knows that can't be replaced and feels yet again another crime is committed in losing their loved one, and then having people say it's ok.

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2019, 02:56:39 pm »
Just to let you know, there will be many others like me, who so far haven't spoken up, but keeping eyes and ears open for newly acquired goats.
Hoping they turn up  :fc:



New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Stolen Goats!
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 03:23:34 pm »
Just to let you know, there will be many others like me, who so far haven't spoken up, but keeping eyes and ears open for newly acquired goats.
Hoping they turn up  :fc:

Thank you, and everyone else who hasn't spoken up, for doing that. I do really, really appreciate anyone and everyone's help and support. I hope we can find them, I hope that we can catch the people who do these things - and stop the suffering of those animals, and the people who love them.

 

Stolen goats

Started by Penninehillbilly

Replies: 1
Views: 600
Last post June 15, 2017, 10:51:58 pm
by Scarlet.Dragon
stolen goats (on preloved)

Started by Penninehillbilly

Replies: 6
Views: 1663
Last post October 05, 2013, 02:11:13 pm
by fsmnutter
Stolen?!

Started by little blue

Replies: 8
Views: 2040
Last post April 02, 2011, 02:02:31 pm
by Mays
Stolen Livestock

Started by reedos

Replies: 30
Views: 8378
Last post November 03, 2013, 05:42:58 pm
by speckledhen
Stolen Goat

Started by kim

Replies: 5
Views: 1306
Last post October 27, 2013, 12:39:37 pm
by Penninehillbilly

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Little Peckers

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2019. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS