NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Nigerian dwarfs  (Read 1110 times)

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 08:51:12 pm »
I didn't intend to cause offence; I'm sorry.

Several of us have answered your original question that there are no known legitimate Nigerian Dwarf studs in the UK so this does not appear to be an option for you.

You're absolutely right that it's your choice to breed and manage your animals in your own way.  We're just trying to highlight that just because you don't want to breed for meat, you cannot assume that there is a pet market for your male offspring and we're highlighting some of the pitfalls you may not have realised.  If you have and we're teaching granny to suck eggs then so be it, but from some of the questions you've asked you don't sound particularly experienced and therefore we're trying to offer help. 

There may or may not be a market for the offspring you're intending to breed.  However if you're breeding "mongrels" rather than "pedigree" pygmy goats the pet market will be limited and likely at the lower end of the price bracket.  That also means potentially you are selling to people who may not take care of the animals and therefore the "pet home" may result in them being abused or neglected, abandoned or sold on for meat by their "pet owners".  If you're happy with that, then you fully understand the decision you're taking in breeding from unregistered females to a different breed of male.  The GG/Togg crosses make sense from a dairy perspective, but crossing these to a pygmy doesn't from either the dairy or the pet market perspective.  That's all I'm saying.  If it's what you want to do, then go ahead; they're your goats and it's your choice.  No one is judging or condemning your decision not to breed for meat - it's a personal choice for everyone concerned.  Some owners feel strongly that they would prefer to take responsibility of ensuring the males get a good, if short, life rather than passing them on to someone who may mistreat them.

In terms of finding a pygmy male then decide if it's worth using a registered male, in which case contact the pygmy society to get a list of stud males available and work from that to find one in the price bracket you're willing to pay with the look that you want (whether that's size, shape, colour, or other characteristics).  If you don't think it's worth using a registered male given that you won't be able to register the offspring, then find a pygmy male that you like the look of, find out about it's health history, try to see some of its existing offspring and take a chance.

In addition to CAE testing you may want to look into status of EAE, CLA, FEC/worm resistance and Johnes or you may be willing to take the risk on these.  Again that's your choice.

Good luck whatever you decide to do and for whatever reasons you decide to do it.
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.
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New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2018, 09:28:19 pm »
Thanks everyone for your help. I am not against help at all and I don't want the males to go to homes to be eventually mistreated. I veered away from the Pygmy because it can get difficult as it's not a pygmy and it's not a dairy. I thought the Nigerian would offer a different mix, of smaller, but still dairy.

I've spoken to a few people, but not always on here, and there are often rumours of them around. Heard about a herd (no pun intended) in King's Lynn...not sure of course. But trying to see what might be out there and if someone is claiming it, how to best tell if it's the real deal or not.

As I understand they are small, like the Pygmy, but a bit more delicate. I've found some - females though - and they look like that, at least in photos. So smaller, and more delicate, facial structure is more narrow. But again, I am trying to discern the difference.

I am new and inexperienced - as I fully admit so my words will indicate as much as well. But in that inexperience is still a passion to find the goats, kids, a good home and I got ideas I'd like to follow through on, at least enough to see if they're viable. I am loathe to go Pygmy route, or other meat market route crosses, and ideally go a dairy mating. Obviously GG's an option, but Nigerian - if found - would be too. Just want to follow it through and it seemed there is/was an option. So I thought I'd go on here to see if you all knew of any, or if not, how to best tell if I got a real deal or a joker con artist. No harm in checking out options right?

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2018, 10:30:31 am »
No harm at all.


The advice and experience you will find on here, especially in the goat section, I think is second to none.


I very much doubt there is a Nigerian goat stud here for several reasons. Firstly importation, as Anke says, would be highly unlikely as the the disease risk would be enormous and unlikely to be allowed to happen and the costs would be huge. Secondly, I think you said it was a stud billy, where did the females come from that make up the stud? Lastly, once someone has a "rarity" they tend to sell off offspring at hugely inflated prices. There are examples of this in other breeds. No-one seems to know anything about a stud breeding Nigerian goats so I would suspect there isn't one. 


I wouldn't imagine we import many goats from outside the EU so I would start with the import people as if there any Nigerian goats here they had to be imported at some point.




New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2018, 11:46:38 am »
No harm at all.


The advice and experience you will find on here, especially in the goat section, I think is second to none.


Couldn't agree more which is why I came on here! I'd figured that this is the place to get confirmation of possible options being valid or not. I was only frustrated as it seemed to get in the realm of whether or not the meat option was viable. All I said was I didn't want to breed for it, which is a rather deliberate movement towards it, rather than simply dealing with an eventual outcome. And of course, then so many veins went out of whack a bit. And words get easily misunderstood and we get off-course on 'rarity' 'registered', etc. Still very much want expertise and help though, just want to stay on topic.

I understand now, that many are dubious of the Nubian option but in first coming on here, that was what I was trying to figure out. Are there any? Could the one I found be valid? What are reasonable stud costs? etc.

BTW - not still touting the stud, but the studs ancestors were Nubian and brought over. So he is - supposedly - the progeny of imported Nubians. Just clearing up any misconceptions.

It's a real shame that the Nubians aren't really found here. I've spoken to American counter-parts where they are very popular. It seems a real shame that they were blended out with Pygmies (which are used for meat and pets), and then, according to some information, the UK liked the look of the Pygmies...so characteristic wise, it won out. Seems a shame that there are none left now that are true, or at least close to true, Nubians.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2018, 05:44:14 pm »
No harm at all.


The advice and experience you will find on here, especially in the goat section, I think is second to none.


Couldn't agree more which is why I came on here! I'd figured that this is the place to get confirmation of possible options being valid or not. I was only frustrated as it seemed to get in the realm of whether or not the meat option was viable. All I said was I didn't want to breed for it, which is a rather deliberate movement towards it, rather than simply dealing with an eventual outcome. And of course, then so many veins went out of whack a bit. And words get easily misunderstood and we get off-course on 'rarity' 'registered', etc. Still very much want expertise and help though, just want to stay on topic.

I understand now, that many are dubious of the Nubian option but in first coming on here, that was what I was trying to figure out. Are there any? Could the one I found be valid? What are reasonable stud costs? etc.

BTW - not still touting the stud, but the studs ancestors were Nubian and brought over. So he is - supposedly - the progeny of imported Nubians. Just clearing up any misconceptions.

It's a real shame that the Nubians aren't really found here. I've spoken to American counter-parts where they are very popular. It seems a real shame that they were blended out with Pygmies (which are used for meat and pets), and then, according to some information, the UK liked the look of the Pygmies...so characteristic wise, it won out. Seems a shame that there are none left now that are true, or at least close to true, Nubians.



Nubians or Nigerians? Plenty of Nubians about… though wouldn't use one on a smallish GG...

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 07:02:42 am »
Nubians or Nigerians? Plenty of Nubians about… though wouldn't use one on a smallish GG...

Like the Nigerians the Nubians you get in this country are Anglo Nubians and not pure.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 09:15:44 am »
OMG! I think my brain went on holiday!  :innocent: I meant Nigerian, but obviously in that post I got stuck on the word Nubian and it just got stuck.

I mean Nigerian...definitely Nigerian!  :roflanim:

Where did my poor brain go??  :coat:

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Nigerian dwarfs
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 09:57:23 am »
Another breeding question, movement of goats!

So when I take my girls to be bred, what paperwork has to be done to move them? If it's temporary for the purposes of breeding?

I spoke to the vet and I'll be taking a sample to our vet for a worm check, rather than worm unnecessarily as they are doing pretty well and their last check was very good.

 

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