The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Other => Topic started by: waterbuffalofarmer on August 20, 2018, 08:05:51 am
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something I have always wondered... tell me if I have said this afore now :) It is easy to judge customers/consumers from a sellers point of view and not always as easy to keep those judgements when the roles are reversed, this I try to keep in mind although I do sometimes forget it. For example yesterday I was alerted to a post in a livestock group I am a part of on FB, by a lady ik a little. The advert was for a buffalo bull being wanted. I contacted the person in question.....
Hi.
I noticed your advert. I have a buffalo bull calf available, currently 1 month old. He is on milk ATM, but will be due to be weaned at 12 weeks of age. Growing well, excellent temperament, quiet boy. He's out of our stock who was sired by a good AI italian milking bull. The stockbulls mother is our best milker and very fertile, producing 3.5k peak lactation off grass. The bull calves mother us out of another excellent milker and she was home breed herself out of a pure Italian bull who originated from the Aldes herd in Italy. She has fast milk letdown, good yield and holds her weight well, very friendly. He is available for viewing [?IMG]
Would you be interested?
Kind regards
.....
To this he asked what price I was looking for. I said 300 pounds, weaned. This morning he came back to me asking me to lower the price as he has a bit of a distance to travel (2-2.5hrs tops)
I am not a greedy person by nature and would rather see my animals go to a good home where they will be looked after and cared for/loved by the people who I sell to, but at the same time I at least would like to make back something, even if it just covers the costs of rearing, which is what it does tbh. I'm not making any profit out of this. This message kind of upset me a little because it dawned on me (which it always really does whenever I sell something to anyone) that there will always be someone trying to get something for nothing. Whether he recognises the genetic capabilities of this animal I have no idea...
The mind just always boggles why people do this? Why do we try to cheat other farmers out of things they put their hearts and souls into? I know this world is far from being just, for every good person there are many bad and vice versa.
I just hate it when people can either see an animals true value, or they cannot, but still try to get it for lower than the animals worth. If they cant is it because they don't want to or the fact they simply don't understand?
Thoughts?
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You have given the interested party a lot of useful information about your bull calf, he has been carefully bred from quality blood lines, and you are investing time and money in raising him at present. As you are an active breeder of water buffalo I assume you know the current selling prices for quality animals. Am I right in thinking there are not many herds of buffalo in UK, so any purchase he makes will involve travelling some distance? I think you are being reasonable, and if I was you I would not be too quick to start reducing the price. I think a polite message back to the interested party indicating your asking price is, in your opinion, reasonable, and perhaps suggest some other breeders he could try instead? I know it is likely to result in you not selling to him, but you obviously have concerns and waiting for the right buyer is probably a more suitable option.
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You have given the interested party a lot of useful information about your bull calf, he has been carefully bred from quality blood lines, and you are investing time and money in raising him at present. As you are an active breeder of water buffalo I assume you know the current selling prices for quality animals. Am I right in thinking there are not many herds of buffalo in UK, so any purchase he makes will involve travelling some distance? I think you are being reasonable, and if I was you I would not be too quick to start reducing the price. I think a polite message back to the interested party indicating your asking price is, in your opinion, reasonable, and perhaps suggest some other breeders he could try instead? I know it is likely to result in you not selling to him, but you obviously have concerns and waiting for the right buyer is probably a more suitable option.
Thank you. Yes I completely agree. There are more herds coming up all the time, which are from big dispersal sales of previous herds which were formed in UK but had to give up and such. The only other herds that Ik are not even remotely close to him tbh and those which are closer the temperaments are questionable, as are the genetics... I said to him that I wasn't prepared to go any lower, to which he replied that he would speak to his father about it ( I think this may denote a negative answer or no answer at all) but as always patience is key and the right person will come along at the right time :)
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I think the problem here is that you're emotionally invested in this calf and his future, but the potential buyer presumably has more than one option, so is not. You might not like it, but buying and selling like this is a game. Your objective is to get the most you can for your calf, and his objective is to get the calf for as little as possible.
To give you an example, I once wanted to buy a second hand kayak, but the seller wanted far more than it was worth. When I asked why, he told me that he had bought it using money given to him in his Grandmother's will, and 'it would be disrespectful to her' to lower the price. The trouble was that whilst he was emotionally invested in the kayak, I was not, so chose to go elsewhere.
So to succeed at the game, you need to know how much your calf is really worth, and what the minimum is you'll sell him for (not necessarily the same thing). Then, if the maximum the seller will pay is higher than your minimum, you have the chance of a deal. If it isn't, then you don't, and there's no point in getting upset about it! There will always be chancers who want to get a bargain, but the place for them in livestock buying is the auction ring, not private sales, so don't feel you need to play that game if it makes you uncomfortable, or if you're unconvinced by the buyer.
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I feel that negotiating money is a tricky subject where animals are concerned.
If I posted a 'wanted ad' I would probably already be aware of what other animals are on the market at that time and their cost, so If someone replied with an animal I liked but was too expensive for me, I'd reply saying that I really liked the animal, but sadly it was more than I could afford. If I wasn't particularly bothered one way or the other, I might reply with a cheeky offer and if I thought it was a good price for the animal and worth what the seller was asking I'd pay the asking price without question.
It sounds a bit like your buyer is a bit of a muppet..
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It sounds a bit like your buyer is a bit of a muppet..
Possibly, or possibly not! I had a hard time with a couple of people at work once, and complained to a colleague that they always seemed to be against me. My colleague's reply changed my whole outlook on work: "No, they're not against you, Womble. They're just for themselves". Suddenly I realised that this was nothing personal - they were just trying to further their own interests, just as I was mine!
If I've understood correctly, you've asked for £300, they've asked for a reduction (and why wouldn't they?), and you've refused. Now the ball is in their court and they have three possible moves: 1) Agree to pay £300. 2) Offer a lower price again (ugh), 3) walk away.
Oh, and there's 4) as well: Appear to be interested at £300, then come and collect and only offer £200 because of some minor flaw (say he has dirty feet or something). That last one is really underhand of course, but be prepared for it. If they do travel a couple of hours, the chances are they're willing to pay the full amount but are chancing their arm, so make sure you stick to your guns and don't be walked over!
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Possibly, or possibly not! I had a hard time with a couple of people at work once, and complained to a colleague that they always seemed to be against me. My colleague's reply changed my whole outlook on work: "No, they're not against you, Womble. They're just for themselves". Suddenly I realised that this was nothing personal - they were just trying to further their own interests, just as I was mine!
If I've understood correctly, you've asked for £300, they've asked for a reduction (and why wouldn't they?), and you've refused. Now the ball is in their court and they have three possible moves: 1) Agree to pay £300. 2) Offer a lower price again (ugh), 3) walk away.
Oh, and there's 4) as well: Appear to be interested at £300, then come and collect and only offer £200 because of some minor flaw (say he has dirty feet or something). That last one is really underhand of course, but be prepared for it. If they do travel a couple of hours, the chances are they're willing to pay the full amount but are chancing their arm, so make sure you stick to your guns and don't be walked over!
Wise, wise words Womble.
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As you prob realise WBF - it was I who pointed the person your way.
I must admit that of all the ploys to get something cheaper the one - "I've got a long journey . . ." Is particularly annoying. I now point out that it isn't my fault they don't live down the road and that it doesn't make my animal worth any less. But said in a joking fashion and "happy" smile so's not to totally alienate a possible buyer.
However, as you will realise there are some people to whom haggling is a way of life. So, could you come to a compromise - like split the difference, or give luck money? I did notice that this potential buyer lives in Wales (or have I got that wrong ?) so is the long journey line just an excuse, or is he planning on walking the animal home?
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2-3 hours traveling in the UK ! try 2-3 days away,
can I ask Tesco to reduce the price of bananas as they are further away than Asda who haven't got any ?
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Your price is your price, his price is his price. He may not be a buyer you want.
I had a ram buyer recently stating that my rams were too expensive, he explained that he had never paid in excess of £85 for a ram so I see why he thought that. He is not a buyer I want as my business could not afford to continue at that level.
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Interesting thread isn't it? All buying and selling started with bartering and all bartering involved the seller wanting more and the buyer wanting less. Some people are disappointed if you don't barter, and some are offended if you do. On the basis that you can't please everyone you may as well please yourself.
I think WBF you are entitled to some righteous indignation 'we have put many many hours into the care and welfare of our herd to produce this lovely animal, it is more than worth a couple of hours of your time to get here, but if you are not sure.....'
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Everything is negotiable and womble is right about the options. There's nothing wrong with asking for a discount and nothing wrong with you saying "It's a lovely calf, please don't drive this distance if £300 isn't your price"
I sold a quad bike a while back. Chap drove 3-4hrs with a trailer to pick it up. My price was £500 advertised and after looking at it his words "I've driven 3 hrs how about £450" to which my reply was "You want to change the price? OK £525." I then pointed out he wouldn't have driven 3 hrs unless he intended to buy and he still had petrol costs to get home. He paid £500.
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It sounds a bit like your buyer is a bit of a muppet..
Possibly, or possibly not! I had a hard time with a couple of people at work once, and complained to a colleague that they always seemed to be against me. My colleague's reply changed my whole outlook on work: "No, they're not against you, Womble. They're just for themselves". Suddenly I realised that this was nothing personal - they were just trying to further their own interests, just as I was mine!
If I've understood correctly, you've asked for £300, they've asked for a reduction (and why wouldn't they?), and you've refused. Now the ball is in their court and they have three possible moves: 1) Agree to pay £300. 2) Offer a lower price again (ugh), 3) walk away.
Oh, and there's 4) as well: Appear to be interested at £300, then come and collect and only offer £200 because of some minor flaw (say he has dirty feet or something). That last one is really underhand of course, but be prepared for it. If they do travel a couple of hours, the chances are they're willing to pay the full amount but are chancing their arm, so make sure you stick to your guns and don't be walked over!
Been there.... had it tried on me by a couple of chancers over the years for first class animals .
If they try the last unless you are desperate for the money & are a willing to take insult & the drop in price , say.
" Oh really I didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out I wasn't aware of it .
I can't possibly sell the bull now can I , with him being as you say " such a poor specimen ? I'll keep him back & raise him as meat .
I'll have to get in contact with you when a better bull comes along. "
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The unwritten 'rule' that I have is that you can only negotiate price once. So you contact the seller and you can say that the animal is slightly out of your price range and ask is the price negotiable, or you can visit the animal and see if its worth what the seller is asking and if you feel it isn't, politely ask what the best price is. Sometimes people will negotiate a price on the phone and then try again for a lower price when they are viewing the animal which IMO isn't on. I always refuse to drop my price under those circumstances.
I do tend to price animals higher than the price I'm looking for these days though, to allow me to drop to the price I'm actually looking for.
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As you prob realise WBF - it was I who pointed the person your way.
I must admit that of all the ploys to get something cheaper the one - "I've got a long journey . . ." Is particularly annoying. I now point out that it isn't my fault they don't live down the road and that it doesn't make my animal worth any less. But said in a joking fashion and "happy" smile so's not to totally alienate a possible buyer.
However, as you will realise there are some people to whom haggling is a way of life. So, could you come to a compromise - like split the difference, or give luck money? I did notice that this potential buyer lives in Wales (or have I got that wrong ?) so is the long journey line just an excuse, or is he planning on walking the animal home?
I didn't realise this tbh... Thank you for doing it though I do sincerely appreciate this :) He's based around Cardiff. After he told me he would speak to his dad he didn't get back to me, so I think price for him was a big issue.
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I once advertised a car for sale cheaply, I think it was £250, I just wanted to get rid. A chap rung me and asked if I would take £225, I said yes but that was the lowest I would go, so don't expect to arrive and haggle.
So he and his mate turn up. They want it for less, I say no and walk away. He then says he will have it but he does not have enough money for the petrol home, they was probably 40 miles worth in the tank. I say that's not my problem and go off in to the house. He then come back and says he only has change, I say that's fine, I could do with change. So he literally went through his and his friends pockets looking for money down to 10pand 20p, which I counted out and took to make the full amount.
They came never expecting to pay the full amount, who go to look at a car with no money for petrol, because in my experience the petrol station is your first stop after the money changes hands.
When I am buying I tend to only look at things I know I can afford and would only make and offer if I really thought it was over priced. I explain my reason and leave the offer for them to think about. I once had to wait two months.
A good sale is when the buyer and seller are both happy. Sometimes I have perhaps paid too much, but I have really wanted it, and the trailing round for something right is not a hobby for me.
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sometimes the hardest things to get are the most worthwhile :)