The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: mark taylor on July 08, 2018, 02:49:40 pm
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I have been using diatomaceous earth in my sheep feed to help with parasites and mites tics etc has anyone else tried this and if so do you think it works I put in on the hay in the shed and I think it is working
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It has zero effect at all -
its a waste of money, I tried it and FEC before and after, it made zero difference at all, and My vet confirmed that in every case where people used it and forwent worming or good pasture management, it resulted in increased worm burdens, or at best no change.
It is nothing more than hopeful thinking and snake oil -
The best thing to do is manage your pasture rotation properly, and this will allow you to keep worm counts low, I myself have not wormed any sheep this year, and only 20 of 340 last year, with my FEC readings rarely topping 120. This is by ensuring sheep never stay on grass for more than 10 days at a time before being moved, and a minimum of 60 days rotation time in summer (during the egg hatching season), ideally pushing it out to 100 days where possible.
Also keeping grass covers above 4-5cm, and ideally 10cm on entry. impacts on the larvae survival as fewer reach the top of the grass.
Simply you would be better saving your money and spending it on other things.
As for putting it on hay - hay is an inert feed and sheep fed on forage will have lower worm and parasite burdens simply because the food they are eating has no parasite eggs on!
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It does seem to do some good in the poultry house though :chook: :chook: :chook:
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a lady whom i shear for uses it and swears by it. however i do crutch all her lambs at shearing time because rhey have very dirty tails. make of that what you will.
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This makes sense though. It's made from crushed up coral type organisms, so basically it works by being microscopically very sharp. That then abrades the waxy protective coating on red mite etc, so that they dehydrate and eventually die (I can personally attest to this working for poultry).
However, if you feed the same thing to sheep, what would the mode of action be for intestinal worms? I mean, why would they be bothered about microscopic sharpness anyway?
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I thought it was only for getting rid of bugs like fleas or mites - not for digestion. Works really well when dusted around the greenhouse or in areas that have been previously infested with bugs.
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I have used it successfully on goats to get rid of mites
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^ But mites are external, right? So it stands to reason that covering the goats with DE would work for mites, in the same way that it works for hens. However, Mark's original question was whether *feeding* animals DE does any good?
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Well there is some sort of research that shows it is effective against internal parasites - by scratching their outer covering in the same way as it does with external pests.
However, you have to use it for at least a month for it to work. So if you only used it for a more limited time Coximus, then presumably you would not have seen any improvement.
Also, obviously by it's mode of action, it could only at best be effective against gut worms
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We've used it on cattle which has never had worms. Whether it is coincidental as we are big on rotational grazing and pasture health.
I use it a lot with the chickens as its good against red mite and I provide a birdbath of DE and sand. Its a good way of drying up any parasites on them.
I cant see it as doing any harm. As for externally it will only work if applied to the skin which could be quite a challenge with sheep.
With sheep worms are more difficult to assess. Keeping animals in tip top condition is one thing, but strict rotation and being in excellent pasture and location is another. Outbreaks of some parasites are dependent on the weather & geography.
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We have had very good experiences with this for red mites on our chooks and do put some in their food as suggested on the bumpf, but I have no measure of whether it works in internal parasites or not.
It has not been 'snake oil' for our chickens, in fact it has been one of the most effective red mite control measures we have found to date.
With regards to sheep, I have no clue!
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I used DE in sacks for housed cattle over winter and didn't have to treat for lice. Coincidence? Probably. In any case, the sacks of dust provided entertainment ::) ;D
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Well there is some sort of research that shows it is effective against internal parasites -
Have you a link to this?
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No I'm afraid not Tim. I read up all sorts of things about products and don't necessarily believe all I see in print. I just take note of what seems credible I don't record the actual sources.
However, on the last occasion when I found red mite on the perches, I sprinkled DE on top and the next morning there were loads of dead mites scattered along the top of the perches, so I can't see what else would have killed them as I hadn't used any chemicals. OK I realise that doesn't indicate that DE would be effective internally, but it does make it a possibility.
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Their is plenty of Research indicating DE is effective at making an environment less accommodating to external parasites, but no evidence for internal, full stop.
My experiment was carried out over 3 months in parallel fields and was stopped when my vet pointed out it has been a snake oil idea since the 70's.
http://www.healthsil.co.za/pdf/eng/DE_Natural_Dewormer_Study%20sheep-cattle.pdf (http://www.healthsil.co.za/pdf/eng/DE_Natural_Dewormer_Study%20sheep-cattle.pdf)
This is the best research that shows nothing conclusive, IE it made no difference that could be attributed and as such their is No benefit.
MNy vet showed me a journal in 2016 that said much the same - that it was of concern to vets that it was gaining traction in the small holding community as a snake oil remedy causing suffering to animals as people believed it was a "natural" alternative to "evil pharmaceuticals" and was pushed by people with an ideological opposition to chemicals, rather than science based. I will ask for the date and notes on publication.
https://www.sheepandgoat.com/de (https://www.sheepandgoat.com/de)
A good info source.
https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com&httpsredir=1&article=1100&context=leopold_grantreports (https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com&httpsredir=1&article=1100&context=leopold_grantreports)
https://www.agrireseau.net/documents/63094/study-of-alternative-parasitides-for-organic-lamb-production?r=organic+lamb+production (https://www.agrireseau.net/documents/63094/study-of-alternative-parasitides-for-organic-lamb-production?r=organic+lamb+production)
All the above studies show that DE is about as good as fresh air.
I rang my vet, she confirmed that their has NEVER been a study confirming DE to have any effect whatsoever when eaten, other than increasing Dry matter % in the muck.
Please do not advocate the use of DE.
It is tantamount to animal abuse and neglect if animals were to forgoe good rotational husbandry or worming in favour of DE treatment, and then suffer as a result.
DE Is NOT and CAN NOT be used as a wormer, worm inhibitor or any form of intestinal parasite control agent.
Well there is some sort of research that shows it is effective against internal parasites - by scratching their outer covering in the same way as it does with external pests.
However, you have to use it for at least a month for it to work. So if you only used it for a more limited time Coximus, then presumably you would not have seen any improvement.
Also, obviously by it's mode of action, it could only at best be effective against gut worms
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Well that is an interesting piece of "research". It actually has fairly random results in places.
At 4 weeks of treatment the drenched animals had the highest worm count - even higher than the untreated ones.
At 10 weeks of treatment the lambs from the DE treated ewes were heavier than those from both the drenched ewes and the controls. So - as I mentioned - there is indeed some research that shows DR can be effective against internal parasites. :thumbsup:
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I cant thank you all enough for you comments a advice I might just use it in the sheep shed to kill the parasites and flease since I still have 20kg left :-)
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Well that is an interesting piece of "research". It actually has fairly random results in places.
At 4 weeks of treatment the drenched animals had the highest worm count - even higher than the untreated ones.
At 10 weeks of treatment the lambs from the DE treated ewes were heavier than those from both the drenched ewes and the controls. So - as I mentioned - there is indeed some research that shows DR can be effective against internal parasites. :thumbsup:
That is not what it shows.... it shows more evidence is required as the evidence gathered does not rule out other environmental factors and it shows clearly that their is no consistent pattern across the board showing any difference.
Furthermore to say their is evidence requires this one thing and one thing only ; Repeatable evidence - "Reproducibility" - the single bases of the scientific method and the basis of science. That a fall in worm counts and burden is consistently reported from a treatment, time after time in the same circumstances, and most studies as I showed, show none of that and a few show erratic results - the balance of evidence is overwhelmingly against DE as an anthelmintic.
DE does not show that.
DE Does have one single benefit, and that is it does slow rumen passage time down by 5-10% which will both mean more food in an animal and thus more weight when weighed, but also will allow fuller digestion in the rumen, but whether the cost of DE vs the cost of growing more grass is ever economical pretty much voids the use of DE in that respect.
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I know you will like to do it organically, but honestly when it comes to worming you really have to use chemicals, unless your pasture management is amazing. I saw a video the other day on youtube of a fatal case where someone had use DE to worm, and the sheep had such a parasite build up, they died. Don't want to worry you, but I would highly recommend getting a FEC sample, and worming with chemical stuff from there.
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Pasture management in terms of plants and rotations - sainfoin and chicory both being studied for antiparasitic effects, for example. FEC to monitor. Chemical wormers if and when necessary. :farmer:
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Pasture management in terms of plants and rotations - sainfoin and chicory both being studied for antiparasitic effects, for example. FEC to monitor. Chemical wormers if and when necessary. :farmer:
And of course the substantial headway made with selection for genetic resistance to parasites :)