The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Draygor on January 11, 2018, 09:13:04 pm
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Hi all,
Please can someone offer me some advice.
Back in the summer my small flock of Southdowns caught scab from a neighbouring farmer who kept their infected sheep in the next field to mine. Others in the area caught it also.
When we were all informed, the big scale operators dipped their sheep, but I only have 12. Apart from not being asked if I wanted mine dipped at the time, I was told it would be very expensive to get a mobile dipper for such a small flock.
I was advised to inject with Ivomec, which I did in August. The sheep continued to show signs of acute scratching and wool shedding. I was then advised in September/October to inject with Decotmax, which I did. Still they continued to scratch like mad, and thinking the dectomax hadn't worked, I complained to the company who arranged a local vet to take scrapings to see if the mites still existed. The vet found absolutely nothing. I was then advised in November to inject with Cydectin - which I did. My sheep still look absolutely aweful, and are still scratching like mad to the point of drawing blood.
I have since arranged the same vet to do a second examination and skin/wool scrape - again showing no remaining mites.
I have been informed that although injecting gets rid of the mites, it doesn't get rid of the residue at the base of the fleece like dipping does. This will continue to cause irritation and the need to scratch.
I am at my wits end, with such a small flock that used to look so good, now look like crap. In addition the 6 ewes are hopefully in lamb.
Please, please, please has anyone got any advice of how I can stop the flock itching and scratching.
PS - sorry this post is so long!!
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If they are very friendly sheep and well off lambing I would be tempted to give them a bath. They will take a bit of drying but if there is only thin fleece from rubbing it should not be too bad, choose a mild day and keep out of any wind.
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I wonder if it would be worth having another word with your own vet. Maybe a painkiller could give them some relief for a few days and allow the wounds to scab over?
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There are other kinds of mites and lice, and things like keds, all of which can cause itching and biting but some of which will not be affected by the meds tried so far.
In general, healthy sheep can withstand low levels of these other parasites, but if already low because of a previous problem, or for other reasons, then the other parasites can take hold.
For that reason I’d probably give a good quality mineral drench, to help their general vitality and ability to recover.
Every treatment you’ve been advised to try is effective against the scab mite but no other ectoparasite. If the washing doesn’t sort them, or you can’t do that, I’d be inclined to try Crovect or some other broad-spectrum against ectoparasites. Crovect applied in a line along the skin (use the point dispenser and part the fleece to bare the skin) should clear mites and lice that aren’t affected by the meds used so far.
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Often sheep that have scab have lice as well and as sally say non of the injectables that kill scab kill lice you need CROVECT or DYSECT or COOPERS SPOT-ON , if vet thinks he/she can visually see lice , the first 2 products can be used in summer to prevent or kill Blow fly . Don't know what you are going to bath them in as they must be fully immersed to kill anything on the head or in the ears, plus I cannot buy DIP without a certificate of competence and some where to dispose of the used dip
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Did you do the two injections of Ivomec?
Which Cydectin did you use? 1% needs two injections, 2% needs only one.
Where abouts on their bodies are they scratching? Got any photos? Are they still shedding?
If it were me I'd use Pfizer/Zoetis Spot-on now and see what happens. Don't bother with Crovect at this time of year, the fleece will be too long to get good administration. And if that doesn't work, go back to your vet.
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Think I would check with vet again.
My sheep have a recurring lice problem which on discussion with vet we decided it is probably living in my wooden sheep shed so every time sheep come in they are infected again (Spot on did nothing) ....
ecto parasites are a real problem .... don't suppose you are in Wales? I think there is a free ecto parasite assessment being offered via vets.
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Not sure where you are in the country as if you are in the North my comments may not make any sense. I wonder given it is a small flock that is may be worth getting them sheared now, especially if the 6 ewes are coming in for a few weeks when lambing. It would then be possible to treat them with spray or powder. Bit pricey for 12 but can get weather proof coats to turn them out in and if the ewes stay in until end of March then probably only need coats for the other 6.
Is it worth considering good (???) old fashioned sulphur powder. I used it for lice on goats earlier this year and it worked a treat. But if you go this route get some disposable overalls as it makes your clothes smell forever.
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Get them in, get their fleeces off and dip them large container with a something naturally soothing. With 12 sheep this is straight forward.
Or
Electric fence an area in the centre of a field where there is nothing to scratch on.
I have seen it become a perpetual habit, where an itch is a scratch and then a scratch needs itching. The vet may well be right and there is nothing at all.
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Don't bother with Crovect at this time of year, the fleece will be too long to get good administration.
For ectoparasites, you apply Crovect to the skin. Use the point dispenser, part the fleece with your hand so you can see the skin, and apply the product in a long line along the spine from shoulders to rump.
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Another thing which could be a factor here is reinfestation. If all neighbouring farms are not treating all their sheep simultaneously, each could be a source for reinfestation of the next. The suggestion of using electric fence to keep them away from fence posts and other things they can rub on would help with this too.
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Citronella not citrus!!! You have to be careful which oils you use around cats, they lack an enzyme which means some oils are highly toxic to them. More info here (http://meowlifestyle.com/6-essential-oil-safety-tips-for-cat-owners/) (amongst many other places.)
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Hi all, many thanks for all the advice I'll answer some of the questions below:
[member=75709]Buttermilk[/member] They are friendly sheep, they eat out of my hand and follow the bag very easily, so I'm thinking along these lines.
[member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member] [member=9755]shep53[/member] They were Crovect in July, do you think they will benefit from another dose?
[member=24813]Foobar[/member] Yes they were given 2 injections of Ivomec and the Cydectin was 2%. They are scratching their backs, sides and underbellies.
[member=26580]Backinwellies[/member] The vet couldn't find any signs of external parasites either. They don't live in any kind of housing unless it's severe weather in which case I bring them into the barn.
[member=30154]pharnorth[/member] I am in Wales and I will consider shearing them
[member=104789]winkhound[/member] The shearing is something I am seriously considering.
[member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member] All the surrounding farms are bigger concerns and all dipped their sheep the same time I injected mine. Also there are no sheep in the surrounding fields to mine anymore.
I also wanted to add to the original post that I keep Badger Faced and although they received the same treatment as the Southdowns, they have shown no signs of itching or scratching at all. They still look great!!
The scratching Southdowns also appear to have many 'cysts' on their skin. The vet has told me this is due to infection from the scratching. They are currently receiving shots of Betamox.
A number of times bathing them has come up, which I could potentially do, but what in your opinion would be the ideal solution to bath them in?
Many thanks again
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If you could shear them first could you shampoo them with a flea shampoo maybe, it would get rid of any residues and treat for any remaining lice / mites. Check with the vet if there's a suitable one with the right active ingredient. You'll get to the skin better.
I had a recurring lice problem with the angora goats last year despite repeated crovect or spot on treatments. Finally cleared them by diluting the crovect, putting it in a plant spray bottle and covering them in it, rubbing it around under their armpits and groin. If you do something similar wear good protective gloves and mask.
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Think of Crovect as several different medications, each applied in a different way and effective against different parasites at different stages of their lifecycles.
The Crovect we apply with the t-bar nozzle in the summer lies on top of the fleece and protects against blowfly. But applied this way has little effect on chewing lice.
For lice and ticks, the product is applied as a pin stream as close to the skin as possible. When the sheep are in full fleece, you need to part the fleece to expose the skin and apply the stream at the base of the wool / on the skin. It can take some time for all the active lice to get killed, meanwhile eggs are hatching. But if it’s been applied correctly (and not washed off in very wet weather), it should still be effective as the eggs hatch.
There’s an article on SCOPS about sheep lice. Linky (http://www.scops.org.uk/ectoparasites-sheep-lice.html).
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From everything you have told us , reads as no scab or lice ,both these spread easily from sheep to sheep and should affect your badger face . You can only go on your vets advice since they have examined then several times . Two different fleece types seems to be the difference . We would all like to see pictures if possible for future reference
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Hi all, I've brought the 2 x 4yr old ewes into the barn today, as they are particularly bad.
I've attached some photos (I hope the quality is ok, as I had to reduce them).
The photos show the extent of the wool removed by scratching, but also the number of 'cysts' that have been caused by infections due to scratching.
I am seeking the advice of the local farmer with decades of sheep experience who did all the injecting of the sheep for me.
I've got an old cast iron tub that I can 'dip/bathe' them in individually, and will try and get this rolling next weekend.
I will set up the barn as an infirmary and keep them as warm as I can with plenty of straw and heat lamps.
My only concern is that hopefully they are all in lamb and the earliest should be due early March. Will this treatment endanger the unborn lambs?
PS - the blue is Terramycin spray as some of the cycsts had 'popped' and looked painful.
Thanks
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Not sure where you are in the country as if you are in the North my comments may not make any sense.
Is it worth considering good ( ??? ) old fashioned sulphur powder. I used it for lice on goats earlier this year and it worked a treat. But if you go this route get some disposable overalls as it makes your clothes smell forever.
Sulphur in pig oil (liquid paraffin) is a good idea as not only is sulphur an insecticide, but the mixture is very soothing to damaged skin. I've actually used it myself on my face to clear up an irritation that wouldn't go away. Crovect or anything with permethrin in is incredibly irritating to the skin. Try it yourself on your arm and see how long you can stand it before you have to wash it off! So in their present condition I'm sure your sheep would appreciate something that was actually soothing, rather than causing further irritation. You can get it ready mixed in 5 litre containers from agricultural stores, or smaller amounts separately from a chemist and mix it yourself. Ask for flowers of sulphur and liquid paraffin (or baby oil which is the same thing but with perfume and costs more.) Add something like a teaspoon to a pint and shake till the sulphur has all dissolved. Add more sulphur till there's an excess left at the bottom and then you know you've got the maximum dissolved. Pour along the back and rub well in to the bare areas.
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It looks like you've got some deep secondary infection in there so hopefully a long course of betamox will improve things eg actinobacillosis. Sometimes the initial problem damages the skin, plus the waterproofing fleece, and then a lot of secondary bacteria breech into the deep layers of the skin.
It may be worth discussing immune suppressive illness such as cla, mv, bvd with your vet also, I guess theres not even a remote possibility of tb?
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Looks like they are on the recovery road , the scabs look dry and the skin looks mostly a good colour , you can buy large tubs of udder cream which may soften and put moisture back into the sore areas . Wonder if they had Dermatophios ( fleece rot ) at some point . Given time they should be good as new as they look to be in good bodily condition . Traditionally a lot of hill ewes were dipped In late winter , and so long as they are handled carefully , not a problem for the lambs
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From everything you have told us, reads as no scab or lice ,both these spread easily from sheep to sheep and should affect your badger fae . Two different fleece types seems to be the difference.
I keep these two breeds and have noticed that, although they operate as a single flock for the rest of the year, once they're pregnant the ewes split into two groups depending on breed.
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Not surprised , many sheep breeds will segregate on face colour . The ram would transfer parasites to all at tupping plus they can survive for weeks or even months on wooden gates/posts , trees and in tags of wool on wire /plants etc so easy to spread even between fields
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Thanks everyone so much for the advice, tips and help. :thumbsup:
I'm phoning the vet in the morning to come and take a fresh look at them and ask her opinion on the shearing and treating with sulphur oil treatment.
If I get the thumbs up, I will aim for next weekend to complete it all.
I'll let you know how I get on. :fc:
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Also mineral / vitamins drench or jag ;)