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Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: aboud on December 07, 2017, 08:56:54 am

Title: Trees for the farm
Post by: aboud on December 07, 2017, 08:56:54 am
Morning all,

Earlier this year we opened up a small farm for young people with disabilities.

We currently have sheep, goats, donkeys, pigs, guniea pigs, ducks and chickens.  We are now hoping to do a bit of landscaping and work on the appearance of the farm.

Would anyone be able to recommend some trees that would be suitable for planting around the farm?
Obviously nothing poisonous to any of the above!

Thanks, Alex   
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Foobar on December 07, 2017, 10:03:54 am
Plant something that you can do something with - i.e. coppice - hazel willow etc etc.  Plus also something with flowers or berries for the wildlife.  Check out the woodland trust's website, there is lots of info there - you might even be able to get some help with funding from them.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Fleecewife on December 07, 2017, 12:23:35 pm
Do you have room for hedgerows?  They are of such benefit to wildlife if you choose the right species, especially if they can join up with neighbouring woody areas.  Children can learn so much from hedges and maybe even see some bird nests once the plants have grown a bit.  When we planted up our trees, we chose native species, and included a few which will eventually grow into full sized trees, such as oak, ash, Scots pine, beech.  We also have smaller trees such as rowan, elder, holly, wild cherry. birch, hazel and so on. For the hedges, these trees are included, well spaced out, but left to grow above the hedgetop, or cut along with the hedges themselves.  The main hedge species are made up of 50% hawthorn, with hornbeam, beech, various wild roses, field maple, spindle, and so on - no willow in hedges.  We recently planted a dozen junipers in our 'wildlife strip', as they are a tree native to our area but there are hardly any wild ones left.


Many of our trees are from acorns and holly etc which children have grown from seed, then not known where to plant them out.  Your visitors would love to do that.  Currently we are trying to work out how to get four 8' tall conker trees, in 2' buckets, up here from the south of England.  My youngest grandson planted them a few years ago and now wants them to be here.  The half grown conker we have was grown by his dad, our younger son, when he was a child - it's lovely to have history attached to your trees.



There is nothing which grows fast enough to become large within a few years except willow, but something like a weeping willow would provide a 'house' for children to play in in years to come.
Something else you could plant would be a willow bower for playing in and picnicking, maybe with a 'secret' entrance - all fun, but you do need to keep them under control - the willows that is.


Would you also want to grow some fruit, such as apple trees, and raspberries, so the children could pick and eat them on the spot?
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 07, 2017, 02:12:11 pm
We'd love to do more hedgerows here...  One day...

[member=4333]Fleecewife[/member], I love  :love: :tree: spindle but had understood it was quite toxic to livestock.  Is yours restricted to the wildlife area?
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Fleecewife on December 07, 2017, 03:46:09 pm
I didn't know it's toxic Sally but serendipitously it's not in any bits the sheep can reach.  At the moment it's got its amazing neon pink and orange seeds and calyces showing.  I can never believe they are really colours from nature, but maybe She feels like being psychedelic sometimes  ;D
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 07, 2017, 04:39:52 pm
Exactly!  That's why I love it :)
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Backinwellies on December 08, 2017, 07:24:04 am
Check out the woodland Trust site Sally  .... lots of info there  and tree packs for sale
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 16, 2017, 11:34:19 am
This previously posted on the wrong thread!

Oh, I’ve had a lovely time reading up about trees in general and spindle in particular. :)

It would seem that the berries of the spindle tree are indeed toxic, causing abdominal pain, vomiting and diarrhoea in humans and also affecting dogs, cats, horses and goats.  Not sure if cattle or sheep would be affected, but didn’t find any specific mentions.  Possibly sheep are too canny to eat it - ex-BH had fields with yew overhanging and we never had any problems with the sheep.  (Cattle didn’t graze that field, it was a sheep only field - not because of the yew but because of the tourism!).

I also found, which is obvious now but I hadn’t realised, that the wood of the spindle tree is very hard and used to be used for...  think about it... spindles!  :spin:  (Not quite the right emotiwotsit, but it was the closest we have.). Now I definitely want to grow some :)
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 16, 2017, 12:25:37 pm
I wouldn't recommend blackthorn, which is often in a native species hedging list.  It suckers into the field and the wounds from the thorns suppurate and are very painful.   I once got one in the capsule surrounding a finger joint  and it stayed swollen for five years!  Hawthorn tends to grow out horizontally once it's been cut back as a hedge and can be armed with vicious thorns at head height within a season.  Sycamore is non-native and a thug, which will seed everywhere and give back nothing.  Oak, of course, is the best for wildlife of all kinds and will grow away quite well in the right conditions.  Ones we planted a dozen years ago are now around 4 metres high.  Horse chestnut for conkers, of course.  Willow grows very quickly and can be cut and woven to make a living hedge, which can be a fun project.  Make sure you source from the UK as a lot of the diseases which are threatening our trees have come in from nurseries in Europe.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Fleecewife on December 16, 2017, 12:32:47 pm
The spindle for spindles thing is why I got my first spindle cutting from my Dad, years ago.  That first tree has gone but its offspring survive but hey, guess what?  I haven't used them as spindle shafts yet (where's the lazy emoji when you need it?).  I was originally intending to make one for the medieval spindle whorl we found here when we first arrived here, but I never got a Round Tuit, so now you've reminded me I'll go and find a suitable small branch  :spin: :tree:


I totally agree about Blackthorn Marches farmer - hateful stuff  :rant: I thought the scar on my arm which suppurated for a year was bad enough, but 5 years!!  It does have the earliest blossom in the hedgerow, but the down sides of voluntarily adding it to your place make the blossom unimportant.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 16, 2017, 02:59:00 pm

I totally agree about Blackthorn Marches farmer - hateful stuff  :rant: I thought the scar on my arm which suppurated for a year was bad enough, but 5 years!!  It does have the earliest blossom in the hedgerow, but the down sides of voluntarily adding it to your place make the blossom unimportant.

Oh, but sloes!   The blossom is beautiful, the fruits make the very best hedgerow wine...  :love: :tree:

But yes, the thorns are a pest, both to humans and livestock. 
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 16, 2017, 03:00:16 pm
The spindle for spindles thing is why I got my first spindle cutting from my Dad, years ago.  That first tree has gone but its offspring survive but hey, guess what?  I haven't used them as spindle shafts yet (where's the lazy emoji when you need it?).  I was originally intending to make one for the medieval spindle whorl we found here when we first arrived here, but I never got a Round Tuit, so now you've reminded me I'll go and find a suitable small branch  :spin: :tree:

 
We shall await the pictures!   :spin: :tree:
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: arobwk on December 16, 2017, 06:09:07 pm
I would throw in Common Whitebeam and, if you like the idea of a friendly substitute for blackthorn, Bullace plum.
Apparently Whitebeam fruit are edible when very ripe (haven't tried them), but loved by birds:  just don't plant a Whitebeam where you might be parking cars as falling soft ripe fruit and the birds do end up making quite a mess (on two counts)!   
 
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Perris on December 17, 2017, 07:54:45 am
To focus on your intended visitors rather than livestock for a moment, elder has the bonus of lovely scent and human edible high vit c berries, plus provides opportunity to collect flowers to make delicious cordial.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 17, 2017, 09:17:39 am
I seem to remember reading that elder was poisonous to livestock.  That said, my Badger Face will scoff it if they have the chance while I'm moving them through the wood.  We once made hedgerow jam using just that - hawthorn, rosehips, rowan, blackberry, elder.  Best jam ever - but remove the seeds from wild rosehips - they don't soften and it's like eating shrapnel!
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Fleecewife on December 17, 2017, 10:08:44 am
I seem to remember reading that elder was poisonous to livestock.  That said, my Badger Face will scoff it if they have the chance while I'm moving them through the wood.  We once made hedgerow jam using just that - hawthorn, rosehips, rowan, blackberry, elder.  Best jam ever - but remove the seeds from wild rosehips - they don't soften and it's like eating shrapnel!


And crab apples - hedgerow jam, hedgerow jelly, summer garden jam, just add whatever you can find  :yum: :yum: :yum:


I'm sure I mentioned it earlier - balm of gilead, a poplar, has the most glorious, sweet scent from now right through to the autumn.  It wafts on the air across your land, and seems to come from the outer bits of the leaf buds.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: pharnorth on December 17, 2017, 02:11:21 pm
Walnut.  I had a lovely time foraging for Walnuts in Crete a year or two back. There is a place in Kent that sells walnut trees and they do grow well over here. 
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 17, 2017, 04:49:50 pm
To focus on your intended visitors rather than livestock for a moment, elder has the bonus of lovely scent and human edible high vit c berries, plus provides opportunity to collect flowers to make delicious cordial.

But leave some flowers to turn to fruit - the elderberry makes the second best hedgerow wine :).

Wot no glass of wine emotiwotsit?
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: pgkevet on December 17, 2017, 07:13:19 pm
Also had several thousand pounds of private surgery to remove backthorn causing a lump in my elbow.

Agree Nuts, nuts https://www.agroforestry.co.uk/product-category/plants/nuts/ (https://www.agroforestry.co.uk/product-category/plants/nuts/)
Cheaper still to just source fallen chestnuts/walnuts etc from friends and plant your own seed for the common varieties.
My opinon is that all farms shoud have fruit and nut trees in hedgrows - daft that we import what can easily be grown with little effort
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Buttermilk on December 18, 2017, 07:13:04 am
I have a goodly amount of hazlenuts in my hedges but have never yet got a crop of nuts picked.  The squirrels get there before me every year.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 18, 2017, 03:08:35 pm
I have a goodly amount of hazlenuts in my hedges but have never yet got a crop of nuts picked.  The squirrels get there before me every year.

One of our new members asked me when was the right time to harvest the hazelnuts here.  "Two days before the squirrels take them", we replied :). The squirrels take them just before they're fully ripe, little tinkers ::)
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 18, 2017, 06:56:52 pm
Squirrels take walnuts early too.  The only year we got a crop was the one when we sorted 17 squirrels over the summer.  Walnuts also succumb to a very unsightly rust-type disease on the leaves in damp weather.  I agree about Balm of Gilead - we have one and its scent spreads over the side of the valley when the wind's in the right direction.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: pgkevet on December 21, 2017, 11:53:43 am
This is the first year I've had a  crop of hazelnuts.. all from one small section of hedge and two other bushes all of which have far larger nuts than the common wild stuff around here. It'll be interesting to see if the same happens again next year now that I've found/identified these particular trees amongst the odd mile of hedges I have. Then again fewer squirrels about this year.
I'm not a believer in 'native species only'.. that tends to depend where in history you pick your viewpoint. I go with the 'source safe stock' and plant as big a  variety of fruits and nuts as you can grow; monkey puzzles, figs, pecans, hickory nuts, highbush blueberries.. whatever. The link to agroforestry gives huge scope. Even the apple isn't native.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Fleecewife on December 21, 2017, 12:06:36 pm
Well obviously if you're going back to the retreat of the last glaciers, then nothing in Britain is native - not flora nor fauna.  By 'native species' most of us mean the varieties you would see on any woodland or hedgerow walk, which should grow well under local conditions.  There's no point keeping double-double pink cherry trees if you want to feed wildlife on pollen, nectar and fruit.  Some recent research has shown that flying insects prefer native species to garden species of flowers - no clue as to why but it clearly matters.
I'm with you though on having some modern cultivars of trees and shrubs in our hedgerows, especially hazelnuts - even when ours appear to be full and plump coming up to harvest, there's never anything harvestable inside.  I wouldn't mind squirrels getting them, as to me wildlife is wildlife and we shouldn't have favourites, if the nuts would only grow properly.  So maybe I'll get a good cultivar for a crop.  I love the idea of a monkey puzzle tree - there are a few in our area so we know they can be grown here.  What are the seeds like to eat?
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Perris on December 21, 2017, 01:40:55 pm
what is this Balm of Gilead? What wikipedia throws up (Commiphora gileadensis, the Arabian balsam tree) suggests something that wouldn't obviously grow well in the UK, or something less obviously unsuitable but nevertheless still might struggle here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistacia_lentiscus) but says several different plants have gone under the same name, so maybe you mean something else, with a different latin name?
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Fleecewife on December 21, 2017, 03:47:23 pm



http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/product_10268.html (http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/product_10268.html)
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: pgkevet on December 21, 2017, 05:33:48 pm
........
I'm with you though on having some modern cultivars of trees and shrubs in our hedgerows, especially hazelnuts - even when ours appear to be full and plump coming up to harvest, there's never anything harvestable inside.  I wouldn't mind squirrels getting them, as to me wildlife is wildlife and we shouldn't have favourites, if the nuts would only grow properly.  So maybe I'll get a good cultivar for a crop.  I love the idea of a monkey puzzle tree - there are a few in our area so we know they can be grown here.  What are the seeds like to eat?

Another 10-15 years and I'll have enough puzzle seeds to try eating them :-)
As to hazel cultivars.. try sowing some bought nuts this xmas but I think some are treated 'cos only the chestnuts germinated the year I put a mixed lot in (no I didn't bother with the brazils <g>)
Anyone tried/know if hazel cuttings will take??? The big nuts I found are just in the general hedgerow and I'd like more (though I could sow some)

edit - remember that puzzles are single sex trees.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 21, 2017, 05:37:46 pm
There are a number of hazel cultivars available from specialist nurseries.  Monkey Puzzle pine nuts don't appear anything like the sort you get in the supermarket - rather thin and papery if the one near us is anything to go by.
Title: Re: Trees for the farm
Post by: Perris on December 21, 2017, 06:52:05 pm
http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/product_10268.html (http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/product_10268.html)
thanks Fleecewife!  :thumbsup: found a photo on google images and turns out I have that in a border. Now I know what it's called, but can't say I've noticed any scent from it though. Our site is rather exposed so perhaps it gets dispersed too quickly.