The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Renewables => Topic started by: alang on November 27, 2017, 07:02:22 pm
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I'm looking at planting a few hybrid willow cuttings from Bowhayes (or nearer if I can find them) but they offer different size cuttings. How much of a difference does a plant of 1ft or 2ft make?
Also are the hybrids okay for growing in the north of Scotland?
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Answered my own question by finding information on www.thewillowbank.com (http://www.thewillowbank.com). Thought somebody else on here might find it useful too
What size Cutting should I choose?
1ft cuttings establish and grow well in weed free conditions and may grow 6ft or more long in the 1st growing season.
2ft cuttings also benefit from weed free conditions.
3ft cuttings prefer weed free conditions but will tolerate some weed competition.
4ft cuttings likewise prefer weed free conditions but are more tolerant of weeds. They are planted 12 to 16 inches deep below most other weed roots and the new shoots get enough light above the weed leaves.
As a general rule, shorter cuttings establish and grow well in weed free conditions, whereas longer cuttings have more stored energy and therefore will establish and grow better in unfavourable conditions
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Over the years I have planted well over a 100 willow from cuttings. For best results I have found 1ft grows well even in long grass. They need pruned every year otherwise they do not form deep roots and get top heavy. By pruning they bush out rather than growing tall and thin. I start my cuttings off in a pail with water until I see roots then plant well into the ground. Trees that I have not kept on top off get too tall and are easy blown over in strong winds. We planted Willow in a very wet paddock and it helped a great deal drying up the ground. They grow fast.
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Cheers sabrina. Good info to know
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I planted about 60 whips in a boggy area hoping it would help to dry it out and feed the goats. However, it seems that deer like them as well. I have 2 left
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I've been doing a bit of willow planting to try to prevent erosion.
After checking a few websites, I settled with producing my cuttings a minimum of 1cm thick, with the point on the base and the flat end on the top from 1' to 2'. There was different advice out there on all these things but this is what worked for me from a production point of view, it's too soon to tell if they've established.
I also collected mine from bankings/unkept waste ground meaning I didn't have to go and buy them.
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I only want to plant 10 at first as I have very limited space in the back garden until I can afford to buy some proper ground.
There seem to be quite a few varieties of willow/hybrid willow so will have to research what types are good for 600ft elevation.
Might try to find some willow in the local area but most trees around me are rowan and birch
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Alang, just be aware not to plant near drains, those roots will search for moisture and can get into the slightest leak.
Or near a house or wall, you may be planning on regular cutting, but they can soon take off and suck the ground dry, causing foundation problems.
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I've been doing a bit of willow planting to try to prevent erosion.
I also collected mine from bankings/unkept waste ground meaning I didn't have to go and buy them.
As a born'n'bred yorkshire lass I definitely approve of that idea ;D .
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Willow will grow right side up, wromg side up, on it's left side, on its right side, in beautifully prepared earth, in grass, in rubble, in water - and it is a thug. :rant:
Plant as little as you can - in 2 years you'll wish you'd never heard of willow :roflanim:
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and if you want any (PLEASE) tell me how many 10 inch lengths you want and pay the postage - happy to post them out to you.
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We are at 1,000' and grow nearly all types of willow, except some of the really delicate ones.
How long you make your cuttings depends in part if you want a tree shape, ie with a single leg, or if you want shrubby growth. We started with short cuttings, about 1' long, buried almost their entire length. Now they are huge trees, we have problems with some species blowing over, as their root systems are too close to the surface. Now when we put in replacements, we use 3' cuttings, with half the length in the ground. We don't start them in water as this makes them grow 'water roots' which are a bit different to ground roots, so once they get planted out they have to start over. Once the roots start growing then shoots are put out at the top of the cutting - if this is near the ground then you will get a multi branched shrub starting at ground level; if you plant with 18" above ground, then you will have an 18" leg. The shoots can be trimmed to just one leader to make an even longer leg. If you have animals near the trees, you are best to grow them on a 5' leg, thin shoots out to about 5 or 6, then let them grow thick enough to be worthwhile firewood, then pollard them and they start again. If you want to coppice them then cut them back to about 6-9" above the ground.
The variety you grow depends on what you want them for. If you want to make a bower, then you want a quick grower such as that grown for biofuel. If you want tree hay, or branches for goats or sheep, then you want a fast growing variety which grows to a sturdy tree quickly, such as goat willow. We have tall, thick trunked trees, mid sized trees and a few small ones. We also have 3 alpine varieties in the ornamental garden. The different kinds have a wide variety of pussies, some big, some small, some black, most silver, and they come out over a few weeks, so the bumble bees, which need their nectar, can feed for longer.
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Willow will grow right side up, wromg side up, on it's left side, on its right side, in beautifully prepared earth, in grass, in rubble, in water - and it is a thug. :rant:
I wish that worked for us! In the six years we have lived here, we've planted about 60 willow cuttings - from 1ft right up to 2 x 7ft trees that we transplanted from down south. We have 8 survivors, none of which look great. A lot of our ground is very wet and peaty. Maybe I just don't have "green fingers".
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Maybe you need to gather some from locally which is obviously thriving in your area.
I would agree wholeheartedly with Doganjo that willow grows anywhere.
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DAV, PM me your address and I'll post some to you to try
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We are at 1,000' and grow nearly all types of willow, except some of the really delicate ones.
Thanksfor the great tips. Can you advise which varieties to recommend for firewood logs?
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Thanks doganjo. Appreciate it. PM sent.
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We are at 1,000' and grow nearly all types of willow, except some of the really delicate ones.
Thanksfor the great tips. Can you advise which varieties to recommend for firewood logs?
When we got our first cuttings they were from my Dad's collection. He wasn't embarrassed at all to filch cuttings from anywhere and everywhere, including places he shouldn't have done, where the varieties were printed on the tree labels! I can say that now as my Dad is long gone. I brought back 60 different varieties from the farm, all neatly labelled, stuck them in a 'v' slit trench and left them to grow. A couple of years later, Mr F came along to plant them out, didn't notice the labels so they were lost. So, I don't have a clue what they're called. if you can cover postage I could take some 3' cuttings from the sturdiest trees, the ones we use for firewood, then you could increase your stock by taking your own cuttings the following year.
Because willow grows fast, the wood burns quickly, but's great for getting the fire going, and brightening up the flame from harder woods (don't use Lawson Cypress - it burns black)
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AlanG / Dav275 if either of you don't have any success with the willow you've already been offered, I have a white willow in my garden that I could take some cuttings from that might be worth a try.
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I have just pm'd Fleecewife about her kind offer. Thank you for your offer to Glencairn
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Thanks Glencairn. Very generous.
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Buy the 1 foot cuttings . plant them through a sheet of weighted down thick cardboard to supress the weeds.
Take some cuttings off these original saplings to make the next years cuttings as it will help the original saplings develop good roots . If you have the land ensure you can get a tractor & trailer down between the rows for harvesting time .
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I planted about 60 whips in a boggy area hoping it would help to dry it out and feed the goats. However, it seems that deer like them as well. I have 2 left
Hares love to eat them as well chomped off at 4 inch above the ground spiral tree guards help for the hares but you'll need something more substantial for deer .
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Buy the 1 foot cuttings . plant them through a sheet of weighted down thick cardboard to supress the weeds.
Take some cuttings off these original saplings to make the next years cuttings as it will help the original saplings develop good roots . If you have the land ensure you can get a tractor & trailer down between the rows for harvesting time .
I planted willow through cardboard, but once the cardboard rotted, I had a job to keep the beds anywhere clear. I basically gave up. Next time, I'd maybe use weed membrane instead. I'd rather use cardboard than plastic, but I can't get any more cardboard in between the willow stems...
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Cut each square cardboard sheet about 2 x 2 foot .
Make a neat hole in the middle with a 2 inch hole saw cut from the middle tot he edge so you can slide the sheet to the stem, open it up as you turn it side ways and slide it forwards till it goes neatly round the trunk/stem , add a second sheet but put the slit at 180 degrees to the first.
Or
I know you don't like the idea of plastic.
However ….20 inch roundels cut from swimming pool liner with the hole in the middle and split from the hole to the edge can easily be draped round the stalk like a cape so the edges of the split overlap by about 4 inches at the outer perimeter . They should be re-useable for the next 30 years if you buy that sort of pond liner.
I got the last 3.5 mtrs of heavy butyl rubber pond liner with a 30 year warrantee off a 4 mtr roll for a knockdown price one winters day from a local garden center.
Weigh them down around the outer edge with a bit of soil on the edge
To get a reasonable small hole in a roundel , I simply folded the rubber roundel into 1/8th sections and cut off the pointed end 1 & 1/2 inches back from the tip using a Stanley knife on a block of wood with a new blade fitted for the job .
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Thanks.
I've done that before too, but I wondered if it was stopping water getting to the roots?
The supposedly porous weed membranes don't seem to let much water through, nor does heavy cardboard until it starts to break down. I imagine pond rubber would be even worse, though it would indeed last longer... I suppose it would be OK once the root system developed enough to reach water in the soil outside the covering of the rubber?
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Buy the 1 foot cuttings . plant them through a sheet of weighted down thick cardboard to supress the weeds.
Take some cuttings off these original saplings to make the next years cuttings as it will help the original saplings develop good roots . If you have the land ensure you can get a tractor & trailer down between the rows for harvesting time .
Don't buy any - I have loads - PM me name address and I'll post them out. Send post costs to Cancer research and I'm happy
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Thanks doganjo. Appreciate it. PM sent.
Did I send you some?
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Been away from the forum for a while for personal reasons and just starting to catch up with all things going on.
In order to protect the whips from rabbits and deer would it be advisable to use the tube tree protectors on the whips? I can get a few of these from a friend who works in forestry.
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Been away from the forum for a while for personal reasons and just starting to catch up with all things going on.
In order to protect the whips from rabbits and deer would it be advisable to use the tube tree protectors on the whips? I can get a few of these from a friend who works in forestry.
I've never had a problem with animals eating my willow - I wish I had because I put in far too many and they are unmanageable now (any takers for bits to plant or long whips please feel free to pm me - central scotland), but they did destroy my fruit trees. It wouldn't do any harm to protect them though.
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Thanks doganjo. Appreciate it. PM sent.
Did I send you some?
Yes, thank you. Planted some in our boggy areas, (not looking great), some in the better spots, (surviving ok), and about 10 in the polytunnel for a season. These did well - currently about 2-3ft tall, and have just been transplanted outside.
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Dave have you tried making a series of 15 - 18 inch high mounds a couple of feet across and planting a willow cutting in each of them to a depth of six inches or so in the more boggy areas ?
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Got plenty more if you want them Dave.
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Cloddopper - Not tried that. May give it a go in future.
Doganjo - Thanks, but have done with planting for now. :thumbsup: