The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: JackandJill on August 20, 2017, 06:58:27 pm
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Not a big fan of this sort of thing, but there are times when it is needed, seen a few types out there, inc Bromadiolone what kind of results have you all had, anything your recommend?
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You now need to have attended a rodent control course in order to buy rat bait, the course will cover what is suitable to use and when.
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I think it depends on what/how much you want whether you need the course.
Seen a brilliant idea, wish I'd made notes at the time, where you put peanut butter on outside of a drinks can, this has a wood/metal spike through, balanced across a tub of water. A wood ramp comes up at right angles, presumably with little smears of peanut butter or something o tempt them up, they get to the top, try to jump on to the baited drinks can, it flips over and beastie ends up in drink.
Hope you understand that, may be worth trying?
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I think it depends on what/how much you want whether you need the course.
Seen a brilliant idea, wish I'd made notes at the time, where you put peanut butter on outside of a drinks can, this has a wood/metal spike through, balanced across a tub of water. A wood ramp comes up at right angles, presumably with little smears of peanut butter or something o tempt them up, they get to the top, try to jump on to the baited drinks can, it flips over and beastie ends up in drink.
Hope you understand that, may be worth trying?
Rats can swim. If the barrel was too deep for the rat to clamber out, then it would slowly drown - not acceptable.
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Not nice I agree, but slow death from poison with the added risk to other animals is worse to my mind.
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If you haven't done the rat bait course you can only buy the small tubs of bait (I think they have about 40 blocks) but you can buy as many of them as you want :thinking:
I prefer blocks. Find your rat runs and holes then put your bait boxes on these and close to holes. Push them into the nest holes if possible. Wear gloves. Put out bait until they don't take anymore. With blocks you can nail them to wood and slide under hutches etc.
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I always screw the block to a length of timber. That way they have to eat it there and then. I once found a dozen loose blocks stored up for the winter. It also means that you can put them out when chickens go away and take them up in the morning
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Fleecewife, looking back, apologies if I seemed abrupt, didn't mean to be,
We had a cat who went downhill, kept him in, he seemed to rally a bit, then he got out, he would go to a neighbouring barn which was overrun with rats because he only fed his pigs once a day.
He died in my arms, a long drawn out death (and very expensive vets fees to follow).
Im convinced he was catching poisoned rats, so I really don't like poisons.
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Yes, I hate the use of poisons too. Your experience with your cat is so sad and I can see why that makes you too hate poison.
When we had rats here, we got a couple of terriers, from ratting lines. The death they deal to rats is swift and sure, and about as natural as can be.
What I dislike is the way many otherwise caring folk are prepared to be cruel to rats, where they wouldn't be to other animals. As humans, we have an inbuilt revulsion of rats, because of the diseases they can bring and because of the covert lives they live, and that sometimes brings out our casual cruelty - "but it's only a rat".
As a child I learnt to shoot rats, but one day one got away injured, even though I'm a good shot, so I stopped shooting them.
We need discussions like this to explore the problem of rats, and to come up with the safest and surest way to deal with the problem.
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Here is a post I put together specific to someone who had hens, the principle is the same whatever your situation. Its a problem that has to be constantly managed to keep them at bay far better than starting to think about it once you've seen them/got them.
Rats,
What we have found is that its best to constantly manage the risk of rats to prevent them setting up home with us. Once you get to the point you actually see a rat they have been there a while and there will be more than one.
We live on a small holding and have a dozen or so hens, we are surrounded by arable farm land.
Mostly we are unbothered by rats but every now and again we will see evidence of their presence, often as mentioned by a poster above just after harvest when they have all been disturbed by the combining/ cultivation process on the fields.
We manage to keep them at bay using the following techniques.
1.As far as possible make sure there are no food sources for them . (no food source = no rats)
• We store our hen food in bins with tight fitting lids which are always on unless we are using them.
• We have proper scoops for transferring food from the bins to buckets to minimise/eliminate spillage of food in the storage shed.
• New bags of food are transferred to the secure bins asap.
• In the hen hut after our last rat visitation we took the plunge and bought one of the Grandpa type feeders which means there is not an ab-lib supply of food for the rats in the hen hut. They work with a treddle and require the weight of a hen to open the feeder and access the food. http://www.grandpasfeeders.co.uk/products?gclid=CJ2No431h9ECFUI8GwodsmUM0Q (http://www.grandpasfeeders.co.uk/products?gclid=CJ2No431h9ECFUI8GwodsmUM0Q) There are a number of people now doing this kind of thing if you google them. We happened to pick ours up second hand at a farm sale. They are expensive..but weighed up against the cost of poison it’s a no brainer.
2. Have predators ready to eliminate new arrivals.
• A few feral cats (or any cats) knocking about is an excellent thing. We have about 3 or 4 at any point in time..a couple we have got from friends (domestic type) and a few which migrate from the farm across the field…that are feral and have adopted us as they get better fed here !. They are not allowed in the house but have access to plenty of sheds and are always fed there. I have seen them take rats.
• Have a trap set at all times. Rats are wise creatures and are wary of anything new. So setting a trap after they’ve arrived takes time to be effective. I have a traditional type sprung trap (large mouse trap). To avoid animals i don’t want getting caught in it, it is positioned in the hen hut in a small wooden box (which I made from scrap timber), with a removable lid and a rat sized hole in 2 corners of the box. It has hen food dribbled around in the box. Rats love cover and this gives them it ..with a nasty surprise !
• I haven’t had to resort to poison…but if you do use proper plastic box applicators that again prevent access to other animals and do daily patrols for dead rats.
3. Have as little cover for them as possible.
• You will never stop rats getting under a hen hut…our hen huts are set up on blocks, so that the cats can get under too.
• Our nest boxes are set up off the floor of the hen hut…so cats can get under too.
• Our sheds all have an open door or window or bob hole where the cats can get in and out as they please…so they are always on patrol.
• As far as possible reduce cover in your sheds, leave gaps that fit cats when stacking /storing things, clear up loose bedding and old feed bags as you go along so places they can shelter and hide are eliminated.
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A very good and useful article stufe, but our problem would be in the barn, some goats are messy eaters, and there are bales of hay for beasties to hide in.
I think I know when something is about, cat deals with smaller beasties, last time rat was there I left the 'big mouse trap' unset with a bit of feed scattered on it, then put blocks round so could only be approached from snap end, when feed was going, then set trap. Got it within an hour.
I keep hens in a mesh cage in polytunnel, (with daytime access to outside), that's more of a problem, silly girls do scatter their feed outside their run. Must set trap with anti-cat zone.
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Fleecewife, looking back, apologies if I seemed abrupt, didn't mean to be,
We had a cat who went downhill, kept him in, he seemed to rally a bit, then he got out, he would go to a neighbouring barn which was overrun with rats because he only fed his pigs once a day.
He died in my arms, a long drawn out death (and very expensive vets fees to follow).
Im convinced he was catching poisoned rats, so I really don't like poisons.
That is a sad tale. Did your vet think he was poisoned? Surely he would have had to eat the poisoned rats to be poisoned? Maybe the farmer wasn't too careful how he put his bait out?
The reason that you have to do the rat bait course is because wild mammals and birds have been found with traces of rat bait in their digestive system. So you should only bait in and around building not down hedge lines for example.
Anyone can still buy certain baits.
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Actually the best thing in the first instance is to get the professionals in - they will discuss with you how to get the problem under control, ensure that bait is placed in safe bait boxes etc, and then get a barn cat or two. Be careful with spilt feed and we have stopped having large bales of straw, which proved irresistable living accommodation for rats. So far so good....
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You would think so, wouldn't you?
But some years ago I got a large professional firm in because we had a rat problem. (Ok I know there's new legislation now.) The person that came scattered rat poison along the base of a hedge leading to our hen run. It was uncovered and clearly in view for any wild birds, + my hens to pick up.I was horrified.
A firm is only as good as the people who work for it, and if they are only paid minimum wage you can't expect them to be amazing motivated about the job.
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Well you would ask around beforehand.... most of the larger farms will have a company doing routine pest management, so a recommendation would be good. That's what we did, and although expensive, their services were only required a couple of times, and they told us how to set the bait boxes and where, and actually we haven't had any out in ages now....
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We've used eradicate to good effect
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Not a big fan of this sort of thing, but there are times when it is needed, seen a few types out there, inc Bromadiolone what kind of results have you all had, anything your recommend?
Bromadiolone is suitable for rats, if you want something that will deal with mice too and is less dangerous for livestock/pets then Difenacoum is equally as widely available, they do have to eat proportionately more for it to be effective.
There's interesting reading here- (god I'm dull!).
http://www.pestmagazine.co.uk/media/245855/32-33-know-your-poison.pdf (http://www.pestmagazine.co.uk/media/245855/32-33-know-your-poison.pdf)
If it were me, I would be using blocks/paste sachets in a bait station and combine that with trapping.
The genuine Kness Snap-e traps are good if you don't want to go all the way and use a Fenn Mk4.
I've had good results using crunchy peanut butter as bait.
Also important is I've been round all my neighbours trying to get a unified approach to keeping on top of the rat problem, when they've established a colony and commenced their breeding cycle they can be difficult to get rid of.
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thanks everyone for the interesting discussion and advice. I've been using blocks in bait boxes and the volume of poison taken has reduced drastically, I'll keep these regularly maintained as prevention of future problems.
As many of you have said, this is not something any of us really want to do, however, I am always trying to cause the least harm, but we do raise animals for meat and that life and death are part of the cycle for all things on the smallholding, we are always wanting to therefore ensure its as quick and painless as possible.
Again thank you all for your thoughts
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We use air rifles with night vision cameras.
Simply put out corn for bait and wait. Effective, quick and distress free......plus very satisfying :thumbsup:
Don't use bait anymore after my jack Russell took to seeking out and eating blocks.
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Just stumbled across this post,
I do Pest Control (moles, mice, rats and rabbits) amongst the many other jobs I have and have all the right pieces of paper.
Mr or Mrs J Public can go into any country type store place and purchase up to 1.5kg of bait, wether that's the pasta, blocks, paste or grain and use that on their own property.
You can do an online learning course with test for around £100 that will allow you to buy larger amounts in one go. There are many that do not agree with this online learning as there is no evidence of who is actually answering the test questions and submitting or even if you have google opened up and are searching the answers.
I have been to many farms and private premises and the first piece of advice is to have a very good tidy up and remove all sources of cover and food. After this ).
Rats are shy and don't like new things so they may take a while to gain entry to the boxes. Also it is important to identify the problem is rats not mice as different traps/methods can be used. After they start to take the baits I will then start to set the traps.
Once the main numbers are controlled I may switch to a block bait (especially where birds and other animals or pets are present) and then onto a non toxic monitoring block once uptake has stopped. These can then be checked weekly/monthly to see if rodent activity is present. The trap can then be set again to start the cycle again.
All of the above would be recorded in the Properties Pest control file.
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and to answer your original question, Yes but you may get on better trapping them.