The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Steel on August 16, 2017, 09:54:55 am

Title: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on August 16, 2017, 09:54:55 am
Morning all

Newbie here  :wave: Can I get some breed advice and ideas from you please?

I will be getting some sheep this year. I'm technically a beginner - an aunt had a sheep farm in Wales that I got packed off to as a nipper during holidays (until I discovered parties and alcohol as a teenager), so I have some knowledge of handling and health management - just need to get my mojo back after 30 years of not being around sheep so I'm going back to first principles.

Only want to keep a couple of ewes to produce lambs for the freezer, a breed suited to flat damp ground and relatively robust but handle-able but could maybe run to hogget if I fancied trying that. Like to get a bit of decent wool off them if possible to keep my fingers occupied over the winter.  :knit: Ideally, I'd like to support rare breeds and would be looking to buy pregnant ewes this year (having had at least one trouble-free lambing the previous) to give me a bit more time to research that side of things ready for tupping next year. I have already ruled out the longwools, as I feel that they will be a more labour intensive when it comes to fly-strike vigilance than a shorter fleeced breed.

I live in South Lincs, have a half acre paddock (hence why really I can only have two ewes) with fruit trees covering a third, under which is rougher forage, and all surrounded by natural hedging (there is stock proof fencing in place within the hedges). We haven't been long at this property, but know the previous owner had sheep in the paddock in 2015. He used to let a local farmer run about eight of his animals in there to keep the grass down during the spring and summer. I can see the paddock grass is a mixture of different grazing species and am working on improving the condition and drainage, although it is pretty good soil - this used to be agricultural ground before the previous owners bought it, and everything seems to grow well on it.   

Any ideas? Researched Cotswolds this morning and quite liked the qualities of them...
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Marches Farmer on August 16, 2017, 10:28:16 am
Romneys for good feet on wet land?  Gail Sprake, quite near you, would have some good Southdowns.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on August 16, 2017, 03:28:27 pm
Oh my word, MF! Southdown's are cute - they have fleece on their faces! Is there a higher stocking density per acre for this breed?

Thanks for the tip about Gail - just realised who she is.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Backinwellies on August 16, 2017, 03:58:35 pm
 Llanwenogs ... rare breed , great spinning and dying wool, handleable size and lovely nature
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: crobertson on August 16, 2017, 09:16:25 pm
Derbyshire gritstones! - brought 1 last year and now i've sold all my ewes and replacing with gritstones ! :)
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: roddycm on August 16, 2017, 10:15:55 pm
Keep in mind sheep will bark fruit trees! For reduced acreage you could go with one of the smaller native breeds like shetlands, soay or go continental and get ouessant sheep!

Good luck!
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: twizzel on August 17, 2017, 10:37:44 am
Keep in mind sheep will bark fruit trees! For reduced acreage you could go with one of the smaller native breeds like shetlands, soay or go continental and get ouessant sheep!

Good luck!


Problem with small rare breeds is they quite often don't finish until 12+ months, by which time the ewes would be lambing again and such a small area will become quite heavily overstocked.

Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Marches Farmer on August 17, 2017, 11:41:20 am
Oh my word, MF! Southdown's are cute - they have fleece on their faces! Is there a higher stocking density per acre for this breed?
Thanks for the tip about Gail - just realised who she is.
Same stocking density - we've noticed ours eat about 40% less hay than our Badger Face when they're in the shed for lambing.  Docile nature and slow metabolism, maybe.  Gail's been Secretary of the Southdown Sheep Society for years, and is now Chairman of the Rare Breeds Survival Trust.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 17, 2017, 06:55:31 pm
You've mentioned using the fleece :spin: :knit:, that longwools may be prone to fly strike and that you have some woodland they'd need to graze.  And that you'd like to support rare breeds.

People say that Shropshires are less prone to debarking trees, although I think all sheep will nibble young trees.  The fleeces should be very usable.

Southdown is one of my least favourite spinning fleeces, I'm afraid.  So very short it's really not a novice spin. 

Cotswold has a long fleece and I think would be as bad as any long wool in terms of propensity to get fly strike. Although any fleeced sheep can get struck.

Romney is also very fully fleeced but the fleece is pretty much always very appealing to spinners.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on August 18, 2017, 09:58:18 am
Thanks for the responses all. There's such a lot of breeds to think about!

The previous owners have very helpfully wrapped chicken wire around the trunks of all of the trees, so hopefully debarking won't be an issue. I have to go out and loosen it a bit every now and then to allow the trees to grow. I was working on a stocking density of five per acre, so a sensible choice would be two for my paddock, however, I'm concerned about having just two animals of any kind. If anything happens to one of them, it leaves the other on its own. Being flock animals, I imagine that would be very stressful for a sheep, especially if it has lambs, and there would be a period of quarantine and then adjustment if I brought in a replacement. I was wondering whether to attempt three and carefully manage the food resources by splitting the paddock down the middle to use in rotation and supplement feed. That and pray for no triplets

Twizzl - I hadn't considered the overlap, especially if I ran them to hogget so thanks for pointing that out. Something else to consider in the mix. It might be best for me not to do hogget until I have access to more land.

MF - I recognised her name through the RBST. If Southdowns have a slow metabolism, can they easily run to fat?

crobertson - why do you like Derbyshire Gritstones? Why do they work for you?

SallintNorth - I'll be sending the clean fleeces away to be processed and just knitting the results so spinning won't be such an issue. Looking at someone like Halifax Mill, which I understand does small batches.

In terms of breeds, I've been through all of the suggestions, compared their characteristics and read blogs and forum posts from owners.

I think Soay has to be ruled out for 'quirky behavioural traits', one of which seems to be hard to catch. I think I need something a little more sedate in nature with less primitive instinct to flee until I get my mojo back. Ouessant I'm going to rule out as well - I'd prefer a native rare breed, although their small size is appealing. Cotswold is also out - I want to get more experience spotting fly strike before keeping longer fleeced breeds.

Shropshires - like the dense medium fleece and are good foragers, especially under fruit trees apparently, although they seem a little on the large size. It will be me mostly handling them and I'm quite short. They have a gentle disposition. Little bit concerned about the lambing percentage...triplets not uncommon.

Romney - fleece is tiny bit on the long size so concerned that fly strikes might be hard to spot, and again they are big sheep, however they mature relatively early so there won't be the issue with overlap. Good feet.

With medium to large fleeced breeds like Romneys and Shropshires, is there a higher risk of casting? Or is that this more of an individual trait, and dependent on when they're shorn?

Derbyshire Gritstones - hill sheep good for grazing semi-natural vegetation of varying heights, easy to handle, mature early so no overlap problems, but is my paddock going to be enough for them? Being hill sheep, will they be happy on flat ground with a bit of challenging vegetation here and there or are they going to go looking for excitement in all the wrong places?

Llanwenogs - these look quite good. Slightly smaller so easier for me to handle, quite docile, and not likely to give me triplets so might be easier to plan paddock maintenance around.

Southdown - love the look, smaller breed so easier to handle, early maturing, docile, good feet, multiples common but triplets not so much.

I must confess, I'm tending towards either Southdowns, Llanwenogs or Gritstones, the latter mostly on its ability to handle the rougher foliage under the trees.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: pharnorth on August 18, 2017, 07:19:53 pm
Suggest you also consider Ryelands.  Similar characteristics to the Southdowns popular with spinners.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Marches Farmer on August 18, 2017, 09:25:16 pm
Most Down and lowland breeds will run to fat if they're on good grazing for long enough and/or aren't put in lamb every year.  I put netting around some fruit trees and the Badger Face ewes just pushed it up the trunk.  Shropshires will nibble young growth just as much as any other breed - I sold the foundation stock of a Southdown flock to a Christmas tree farm that'd tried Shropshires because of their tree-friendly reputation, found they weren't and decided to fence off the trees and go for a breed they really liked instead.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 19, 2017, 07:19:01 am
Gritstones and Llanwenogs will both give you nice yarn from nice fleeces.  Llanwenogs softer than Gritstone, but Gritstone is one of the nicer of the hill breeds.  Southdowns are lovely sheep but I think you are likely to be disappointed in the yarn.  Yes Paul will process small batches of fleece, even a single fleece.  But it is down to you to skirt and present the fleece properly; if what you send in has second cuts and / or rough bits, the yarn will disappoint.

Talking about Gritstones has made me wonder if you've looked at Whitefaced Woodland?  Even nicer fleece than the Gritstone, and I think they are pretty docile in a small flock.  The breed is classed as vulnerable, so more in need of help than the others on your list.  They're not small though - similar size to the Gritstone.  Sounds like triples are rare, though, which would suit you.

If you are happy that the trees are well protected then have you considered Shetlands?  Lovely fleeces, a small flock should be very tame.  In your circs I'd always advise buying hand tame sheep in the first place, of whatever breed; go and see the flock at hime if you can and see how the sheep behave with their owner.

Another thought, with nice fleece, rare, not large, more likely to have single lambs and hardly ever triplets, would be Portland.  Seriously cute fox red lambs :love: :sheep:.  Both Portland and Shetland lambs would probably be better as hogget, but if you don't lamb too early in Spring I'd have thought you should be able to get the lambs away before the next year's crop are actually born. 

I've known people with very very tame Soay sheep, so if they float your boat I wouldn't discount them.  They shed their fleece, though, of course, and are tiny with a tiny fleece, so perhaps not worth trying to get yarn spun.

If you like Soay but want something a little larger with a slightly more usable fleece, what about Castlemilk Moorit?  Again, choose the supplier carefully so you get tame ones, but they are lovely elegant animals.  They have good feet and are supposed to have some natural resistance to fly strike.  The fleece is very fine, if properly clipped and presented makes a beautiful silky soft yarn.  Choose sheep from a flock with a bit of length to the fleece (some are very short and would give similar problems to Southdown) and make sure there is no kemp or guard hair in any of the sheep in the flock.

I love helping people choose their breed :)
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 19, 2017, 07:39:36 am
I'm surprised none of us has suggested getting a few cade lambs in the first instance.  You'd be able to get your hand back in, if you get a commercial type from your local farmer they'd probably be fat enough to go off before winter if you wanted.   You might find that actually, getting a few cades each year works better for you than having either larger sheep whose lambs are away before winter, or smaller ones which mean you have five or six ovines through the winter.

And on your point about two or three... It's usually me that says 'Please consider having three', for the very reason you've given.  However, you really don't have a great deal of ground, and, if you decide on getting ewes and breeding, there will be lambs around for a good part of the year, so you'd only be down to two for a short while - especially if you go for one of the smaller types and carry the lambs through to spring.  (But of course you'd then have five or six in total through the winter.).  If you went the cade route, you could get three or four, and hopefully have them away before winter, so the ground could recover for the next lot. 
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on August 19, 2017, 04:06:25 pm
Oooooooo...more lovely breeds to consider!

Did think about cade lambs but think they would actually be much more work with all the feeding and protection against the foxes required. I work from home most days but do occassionally have to go off to visit clients and I'd be concerned leaving them. I would prefer them to have the protection of their mothers.

I shall be back a bit later to reply a bit more...my sodding cat has just caught a weasel and got himself sprayed. The stink!  :yuck:
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Fleecewife on August 19, 2017, 04:20:50 pm
After Sally's post mentioning Portlands I've realised just how lovely they are, as well as being a truly ancient breed.


https://www.portlandsheep.com/history (https://www.portlandsheep.com/history) 


I have never kept Portlands, but two aspects struck me as interesting in the above notes.  One is that they usually have singles, and the other is that they can be bred out of season.  This would mean you could have three ewes and three lambs, then only breed again once the lambs had gone in your freezer  :thumbsup: .
If you don't mind feeding them small amounts of hay and forage (branches and such) all year round, so summer as well as winter, your ground could easily cope with three ewes and three lambs.


I think though that you would find you had taken up spinning as well as knitting  :yippee: .  It just happens  ;D


ps although I'm usually the first to recommend Shetlands, they are not a rare breed.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: roddycm on August 19, 2017, 04:21:32 pm
Keep in mind that soays, shetlands and castlemilks can all be put to a terminal sire too for a faster growing lamb. The ewes are thrifty and lamb easily. I've never had any but I hear spinners like gotlands... they too can be put to a terminal sire. So many choices haha! Sheep are wonderful creatures,  whatever breed you decide on I am sure you won't regret it!
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 19, 2017, 05:17:21 pm
I think though that you would find you had taken up spinning as well as knitting  :yippee: .  It just happens  ;D


Very nearly said the same thing :). :spin: :excited:



ps although I'm usually the first to recommend Shetlands, they are not a rare breed.

:blush:  Oops, you're right of course.  And I'd toyed with mentioning that Ryelands aren't rare too  :-[
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: landroverroy on August 19, 2017, 09:46:20 pm
Without wishing to be bleak, I don't think you've got enough land to do all on your wish list. :thinking:
To aim at 2 breeding sheep on half an acre is being somewhat optimistic. Perfectly possible in a perfect year, but that rarely happens  :raining: . In a wet year it will get puddled up and the grass poached, And you've nowhere spare to put the sheep while the grass grows again. In a hot dry year you will run out of grass.
Your neighbour may have grazed 8 at a time, but it will only have been for a short time till the grass was eaten and then he will have had somewhere else to move them to. You don't have that option.
I would think your best option would be, as Sally suggested, to get some cade lambs. The fact that you're working doesn't have to be a problem - feed them before you go and again when you get back. Shut them up in a shed while they're small if you're worried about foxes.
If this still seems too much trouble then get some older weaned lambs that someone else has raised.
I would forget about producing your own wool. Getting just 2 sheep shorn can be difficult and expensive. There's plenty of people on here that can let you have a fleece at reasonable price and you can try different breeds.


You may find, as you get established that someone will let you have some more land and then the possibilities could be endless. :farmer:
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Buttermilk on August 20, 2017, 07:49:53 am
Another alternative is to use the land as their recreation area and buy in all feed as many people do for goats.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Marches Farmer on August 20, 2017, 10:51:29 am
You'd still have problems with poaching the ground, etc.  General rule of thumb for decent pasture is 5 sheep per acre but you'd still have to buy in hay for the Winter months.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Twotwo on August 21, 2017, 11:00:21 am
What about Dorset Downs they are very friendly and a rare breed ???? love mine with their teddy bear faces
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 04, 2017, 03:59:11 pm
Hi all

Sorry for not making it back sooner. Have let all of your suggestions percolate and given things some more thought, done some more tea drinking and chatting, and have come up with this:

1. We could have access to further grazing land of five acres, two acres and one acre via our neighbours if necessary in bad winters. Obviously we would supply them with some pork and lamb as a thank you. However, it was always in my mind to supplement with hay and solids anyway so extra feed if the land gets poached is not a problem. We're not selling any meat, so don't have to make a profit.

2. I have decided to shelve the idea of doing anything with wool. I'm going back to school so have reluctantly concluded unless I sleep about three hours a night I will have no time for hobbies for the next couple of years. As I'm fairly wedded to my 7 hours kip, something has to give.

3. As we have access to further land if necessary and wool will not be a consideration any more, we have decided to look at...Balwens. The ground is not as damp as we thought so think they would be ok. Hardy, would be ok with the bit of semi-rough stuff under the fruit trees, might not have to shear, easy to lamb and have a lambing rate of about 100% on rougher ground and 200% on good ground, so as we have a mix of two maybe we'll get something in the middle.  Good feet and some flystrike resistant. Good weight lambs that can go at 16 weeks-ish

I'm going to get across to Melton Mowbray market this weekend for the rare breeds show and sale to have a snoop around and get close up with some.

Knowing me I'll come back with something huge and totally unsuitable because it batted its eyelashes at me.

Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 04, 2017, 09:54:18 pm
Can't believe after all the research we missed the fact that Balwens are flighty little runaways that like jumping fences. We watched some videos of them dashing around and thought "gosh, they're bouncy and fast. Hmmmm...we foresee problems."

Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: nimbusllama on September 04, 2017, 10:31:38 pm
Hi all

Sorry for not making it back sooner. Have let all of your suggestions percolate and given things some more thought, done some more tea drinking and chatting, and have come up with this:

1. We could have access to further grazing land of five acres, two acres and one acre via our neighbours if necessary in bad winters. Obviously we would supply them with some pork and lamb as a thank you. However, it was always in my mind to supplement with hay and solids anyway so extra feed if the land gets poached is not a problem. We're not selling any meat, so don't have to make a profit.

2. I have decided to shelve the idea of doing anything with wool. I'm going back to school so have reluctantly concluded unless I sleep about three hours a night I will have no time for hobbies for the next couple of years. As I'm fairly wedded to my 7 hours kip, something has to give.

3. As we have access to further land if necessary and wool will not be a consideration any more, we have decided to look at...Balwens. The ground is not as damp as we thought so think they would be ok. Hardy, would be ok with the bit of semi-rough stuff under the fruit trees, might not have to shear, easy to lamb and have a lambing rate of about 100% on rougher ground and 200% on good ground, so as we have a mix of two maybe we'll get something in the middle.  Good feet and some flystrike resistant. Good weight lambs that can go at 16 weeks-ish

I'm going to get across to Melton Mowbray market this weekend for the rare breeds show and sale to have a snoop around and get close up with some.

Knowing me I'll come back with something huge and totally unsuitable because it batted its eyelashes at me.


I will be at Melton, come and say hello and have a chat.  I am not selling but will be hanging around the Castlemilk Moorit sheep pens probably helping. Brian (likely to be wearing a yellow checked shirt and a green RBST tie)
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: twizzel on September 05, 2017, 08:38:55 am
Can't believe after all the research we missed the fact that Balwens are flighty little runaways that like jumping fences. We watched some videos of them dashing around and thought "gosh, they're bouncy and fast. Hmmmm...we foresee problems."

Back to the drawing board.


Possibly a down breed might suit better for temperament but not sure how they would like wet ground. Poll Dorsets are nice and docile but some don't have the best feet (white feet can be softer). If you can find a smallholder that has the breed you want then they may be slightly quieter than from a proper commercial farmer. Ive bought 2 groups of Lleyns from 2 separate places- both were wild when they came here. The 2nd lot were particularly sharp but within 2 weeks were following a bucket around the farm. Not tame enough to the point they knock you over, or that I could even catch in the field, but tame enough to manage them without a dog ????????
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Foobar on September 05, 2017, 10:06:37 am
Black Welsh Mountain?


Any breed can be flightly, best to buy off farm then you can see how they are - something you can't see at auction.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 05, 2017, 08:13:02 pm
nimbusllama - I'll pop by and pick your brains about CMs

twizzel, Foobar

Am I right in thinking that the Blacks, Balwens and Badger-Faced are a variation of the same basic breed of welsh mountain sheep? How different are they in temperament?

No, I won't be buying at auction. I know roughly enough about sheep to be stitched up royally.  ;D This weekend will be purely for me to get to know some of the rare breeds better and get a feel for how they might be to handle.

My cunning plan at the moment for handling the sheep (apart from trying to buy tame-ish in the first place) is to have a large field shelter with a perimeter of hurdles at the front and from here I will put any extra feed and mineral licks so they get used to being inside the hurdles. If they get used to seeing me coming and going from there with feed and go in there to eat, I might just be able to quietly shut the gate behind me when I need to check/treat any of them.

I know, I know, best laid plans and all that.  :excited:



Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Old Shep on September 05, 2017, 08:34:34 pm
What about a couple of angora goats?  They would be fine on half an acre supplemented with hay and concentrates, just need a bit of a shelter to get out of the rain. Lovely fleece!!

Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 05, 2017, 09:13:33 pm
What about a couple of angora goats?  They would be fine on half an acre supplemented with hay and concentrates, just need a bit of a shelter to get out of the rain. Lovely fleece!!

I'm not a goat person at all. My aunt used to keep a few and they were nosy, bitey, chewy and a bit mean. That's always stuck with me and I have avoided them. I know, totally irrational, but they just don't move me in the same way that sheep do.

Also, not sure how I feel about using goats for meat.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: macgro7 on September 05, 2017, 09:16:54 pm
What's wrong with goats meat???
Similar to mild lamb with a looooot less fat! Lovely meat. More expensive if you want to sell it  ;)
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 05, 2017, 09:38:55 pm
What's wrong with goats meat???
Similar to mild lamb with a looooot less fat! Lovely meat. More expensive if you want to sell it  ;)

It sounds weird, but in my mind animals are separated into two types; those you eat and those you don't but use for a secondary purpose, like fleece or milk. Goats are in there with alpacas.

I said it wasn't rational. I know you can eat alpacas and some people do sell alpaca meat.

A few years ago I tried kangeroo and alligator and I couldn't get them past my throat because my brain had classified them as non-edible. They're not, it's just the association in my brain is strong.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: macgro7 on September 05, 2017, 11:09:50 pm
You know... until recently sheep were mostly bred for wool  :innocent:
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 06, 2017, 02:34:54 pm
You know... until recently sheep were mostly need for wool  :innocent:

True, very true.

I think my brain needs a reboot. I moved to the country last year and I think my 'programming' needs upgrading from 'Town' to 'Rural'.  :thinking:
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Dans on September 11, 2017, 12:44:16 am
A bit late to this but we are also in south Lincs, between Peterborough and Spalding :wave:

We keep Castlemilks, which I love but do need to be kept on to hogget so may not work for you (I think they only just about work for us!). They are nice though.

I was also at Melton this past weekend and fell in love with the Portlands, don't know much about them though.

Not much help but thought I'd say hi.

Also [member=7689]nimbusllama[/member] did I talk to you? We were pestering people around the CMMs on Friday, I had a wandering toddler in tow.




I will be at Melton, come and say hello and have a chat.  I am not selling but will be hanging around the Castlemilk Moorit sheep pens probably helping. Brian (likely to be wearing a yellow checked shirt and a green RBST tie)

Dans
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: nimbusllama on September 11, 2017, 10:12:26 am
A bit late to this but we are also in south Lincs, between Peterborough and Spalding :wave:

We keep Castlemilks, which I love but do need to be kept on to hogget so may not work for you (I think they only just about work for us!). They are nice though.

I was also at Melton this past weekend and fell in love with the Portlands, don't know much about them though.

Not much help but thought I'd say hi.

Also [member=7689]nimbusllama[/member] did I talk to you? We were pestering people around the CMMs on Friday, I had a wandering toddler in tow.




I will be at Melton, come and say hello and have a chat.  I am not selling but will be hanging around the Castlemilk Moorit sheep pens probably helping. Brian (likely to be wearing a yellow checked shirt and a green RBST tie)

Dans


Hi Dans
Not sure if we spoke or not, there was another guy in a checked shirt, but I had a green RBST tie on (although so did someone else in hindsite) I also had a cloth cap on.... I think if I had spoken to you I would have recognised you from your avatar...
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: harmony on September 11, 2017, 01:29:40 pm
You know... until recently sheep were mostly bred for wool  :innocent:


I believe there is more goat meat eaten in the world than lamb or beef.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: macgro7 on September 11, 2017, 03:05:43 pm
I tropical countries definitely. Beef is really only staple for Britain and British influenced cultures (I.e. Americans, australians). In Poland (were I come from) only 2% of meat is beef also 0% lamb. My inlaws grew up in Malawi and the most popular meat down there is goat. Btw it costs around £8 to buy one there!
In middle East sheep and goats are probably about 50-50 except for the imported stuff from Australia and New Zealand which is mostly lamb.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 11, 2017, 08:54:44 pm
A bit late to this but we are also in south Lincs, between Peterborough and Spalding :wave:

We keep Castlemilks, which I love but do need to be kept on to hogget so may not work for you (I think they only just about work for us!). They are nice though.

I was also at Melton this past weekend and fell in love with the Portlands, don't know much about them though.

Hi Dans  :wave:

I think hogget would be pushing it for us to be honest.

I fell in love with two sheep breeds at the show - greyface dartmoors and Jacobs, the dartmoors more so. Definitely ruled out the Teddy Bear breeds, the fleece looks so dense and as beginner I might find it hard to score their condition. Plus they were much smaller than I thought. The shetlands, soays and borerays a definitely out, i was shocked at how small they were. If not really tame I will struggle  to catch something that small and nippy.

I liked the dartmoors - their fleece was between a longwool and shortwool and they just clicked with me. The biggest problem I foresee is that the lambs are cute, REALLY cute. There were three being unloaded from a trailer to the pen and they looked like inquisitive happy little souls.

I cannot see me sending something that cute to the abattoir. I need an ugly lamb. I will try and upload some pictures if I can, but my ipad does not like this forum at all and most of my attempts have ben thwarted.

Nimbusllama - mentioned on the event thread that I popped by the stall but no-one was there unfotunately and I just didnt get a chance to get back.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 11, 2017, 09:04:41 pm
Here the Castlemilk pen and the dartmoor lambs. I think that is a dartmoor ewe top right.

Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: nimbusllama on September 11, 2017, 10:32:27 pm
Hi Steel
The Greyface Dartmoors would be very docile and easy to handle... hope the sale results link was useful to you....
Brian
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on September 12, 2017, 07:23:54 am
Hi Steel
The Greyface Dartmoors would be very docile and easy to handle... hope the sale results link was useful to you....
Brian

Yes, great thank you. Just spotted it this morning.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on September 12, 2017, 08:05:00 pm


I fell in love with two sheep breeds at the show - greyface dartmoors and Jacobs, the dartmoors more so.

Earlier, you were bothered about longwools and flystrike.  From observing posts on here over the years, it would seem to me that GFD are as bad as any breed for strike :/

As to cute lambs... some years we have an online spring show on TAS.  We have to have a separate section for GFD lambs otherwise no other breed would get a look-in at the prizes... ;)

And if you ever did decide you wanted to spin :spin: or have your own yarn made :knit:, you'd be much better off with Jacobs.  They're not a Rare Breed, though.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on November 02, 2017, 10:25:57 am
Ok, I had to step away from the thread for a while as I was getting analysis paralysis. After a little break to have a think I have decided that I want to try getting some lambs to take through the winter, shear and then send off to slaughter late spring/early summer as hogget.

Buying pregnant ewes just feels too daunting to start with this year, buying cade lambs and bottle feeding could mean I get too attached to slaughter them as well as being too labour-intensive. Doing it this way will eliminate the cuteness factor, and also help me toughen up a bit more about slaughtering. I could get some fleece to do something with. I would also get animals that were fairly independent but used to seeing a person about the place and perhaps even used to a bucket.

The paddock is in great condition and I have no problem providing a bit of hay and some concentrates over the winter as required.

Just the breed to decide now.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: silkwoodzwartbles on November 02, 2017, 11:52:36 am
I'd steer clear of Shropshires - my OH has had sheep all his life, mainly Welsh and Berrichon which are pretty wild, but the three Shropshires he bought were something else! Awful things - was really glad to see the back of them.

I've got Zwartbles which are big but very friendly and docile but if you're after something smaller and cute, I have to admit, I love the look of the Grey Face Dartmoor (don't know much about them but they are gorgeous).

Good luck with your search :thumbsup:
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: harmony on November 02, 2017, 01:35:38 pm
Having followed your thread on sending your pigs to slaughter I would suggest you get some cross bred type lambs for your first time and nothing with any "cute" factor.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Penninehillbilly on November 02, 2017, 02:55:48 pm

Buying pregnant ewes just feels too daunting to start with this year, buying cade lambs and bottle feeding could mean I get too attached to slaughter them as well as being too labour-intensive. Doing it this way will eliminate the cuteness factor, and also help me toughen up a bit more about slaughtering.

Just the breed to decide now.


Mine were female cades that I kept, one disappeared but other lambed each year since, another one this year, but reared with goats and a bit of a softy/pain, always wanting to be with me, doesn't help that the original beats newbie up if she goes near her own lamb.
I probably bottle fed too long because surplus goat milk and i enjoyed to contact / (love?) i was getting :-).
You could always look at boer goats?
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on November 02, 2017, 09:40:56 pm

Mine were female cades that I kept, one disappeared but other lambed each year since, another one this year, but reared with goats and a bit of a softy/pain, always wanting to be with me, doesn't help that the original beats newbie up if she goes near her own lamb.
I probably bottle fed too long because surplus goat milk and i enjoyed to contact / (love?) i was getting :-).
You could always look at boer goats?

I'll be honest, I'm really not a goat person. It's definitely sheep I'm after.

I had ruled out the 'primitive' breeds but they are supposed to be good for hogget as they grow slower.

Unless anyone has taken any other breeds successfully to hogget?
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on November 02, 2017, 10:46:06 pm
Commercial types are likely to get overfat in a second summer, I suppose. 

You could get a couple of Mule wethers, or whatever hill breed is most prevalent in your area.  (I know it’s flat where you are, but there might be some Blackies or Swales or Whitefaced Woodlands or something around.). They should make decent hogget, I’d have thought.  Or Lleyn would, they’re fairly widespread, especially on organic holdings.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on November 03, 2017, 10:11:27 am
Commercial types are likely to get overfat in a second summer, I suppose. 

You could get a couple of Mule wethers, or whatever hill breed is most prevalent in your area.  (I know it’s flat where you are, but there might be some Blackies or Swales or Whitefaced Woodlands or something around.). They should make decent hogget, I’d have thought.  Or Lleyn would, they’re fairly widespread, especially on organic holdings.

Thanks Sally. Out of those you've mentioned the Whitefaced Woodlands might the most suitable for my needs, as they are additionally classed as a vulnerable so I would be doing my bit to preserve a rare breed.

We may have a winner! I shall put some feelers out this week and report back if I find some.

EDITED TO ADD: I have just found I cannot get onto the website for the Whitefaced Woodland Sheep Society without a log-in. Tried a couple of different devices and it is the same. How bizarre. How are people supposed to find out about the breed if they cannot get onto the website?
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: landroverroy on November 03, 2017, 11:01:31 am
I'm being bleak again! (Can't help it  :raining: )
But - as winter's coming on, you've only got half an acre of potentially wet land and you intend to eat the animals anyway, then it doesn't really matter what you get. :thinking: So long as they're healthy, so will fatten, and are the right price then you can't really go wrong. (OK - cue the even more negative ones amongst us who will now point out everything that could go wrong  :huff: ) You have some experience of sheep, so are unlikely to do something stupid, and even if the worst case scenario happens, then it's not the end of the world.
I would personally go to the local auction store sheep sales and see see what there is that takes your fancy. For what you want, it seems a waste of time and money approaching the breed societies and paying extra for an incredibly well bred animal that you're going to eat anyway.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on November 03, 2017, 01:55:46 pm
I think it does help Rare Breed breeders to buy wethers.  Anything that helps the economics of putting a Rare Breed tup on a ewe of the same breed has got to help the breed, hasn’t it?
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Bionic on November 03, 2017, 02:09:56 pm
I was given some fleece from a white faced woodland. I haven't used it yet but it does look rather nice with a long staple.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Gunestone on November 03, 2017, 03:05:29 pm
What about Hebrideans?
There are a fair few breeders around, most of them will have ram lambs available, not for much money. They would be pretty light on the ground, and very tasty!! They are also pretty easy to tame, one of ours even learned to jump on command!
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Marches Farmer on November 03, 2017, 06:45:30 pm
I'm being bleak again! (Can't help it  :raining: )
But - as winter's coming on, you've only got half an acre of potentially wet land and you intend to eat the animals anyway, then it doesn't really matter what you get. :thinking: So long as they're healthy, so will fatten, and are the right price then you can't really go wrong. (OK - cue the even more negative ones amongst us who will now point out everything that could go wrong  :huff: ) I would personally go to the local auction store sheep sales and see see what there is that takes your fancy. For what you want, it seems a waste of time and money approaching the breed societies and paying extra for an incredibly well bred animal that you're going to eat anyway.
I agree - no point in making life more complicated than it is already.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on November 04, 2017, 07:51:38 am
I was given some fleece from a white faced woodland. I haven't used it yet but it does look rather nice with a long staple.

Whitefaced Woodland was one of the several lovely surprises of the first Tour of British Fleece.  It’s got a lot of character (and I don’t mean that as a euphemism for being harsh!) and spins up really quickly into a lovely bouncy yarn.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: thesuffolksmallholding on November 07, 2017, 09:57:36 am
Sorry, late post on this thread, but I would really recommend the southdown for your circumstance.
They have a slow metabolism, which you will need as two ewes with a potential of 4 lambs in the spring, will soon get through 1/2 an acre and you will want to avoid buying solid feed or hay to feed them up on (expensive). You'll get a good carcass by autumn from April lambing. They are easy to lamb, docile to handle and smaller than other breeds to turn over. The meat is superior to many others, often favoured by top quality restaurants, for its sweet flavour.
Only slight downside is they can have bad feet, make sure you get some with black hooves and ensure they are solid at purchase. I have heard they are bad mothers, but never had any problems with mine.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Steel on December 20, 2017, 05:06:50 pm
Thanks to all of you for being patient and giving me your considerable wisdom while I flailed around making a decision.

There are now two little bleaters grazing in my paddock, making friends with the chickens and exploring under the trees.

May I present Bleater 1 and Bleater 2, Whitefaced Woodland wethers.

Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: Sbom on December 20, 2017, 08:51:23 pm
Love this breed!
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: pharnorth on December 21, 2017, 10:45:19 am
A real sheeps kinda sheep.  Looks like a sheep. Acts like a sheep. Tastes like a sheep.
Title: Re: What breed/breeds would be suitable?
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 21, 2017, 09:23:50 pm
Fantastic :)  :thumbsup:   

Now...  time to start learning to spin...  :spin: :excited:  (Or to find your local Guild of Spinners, Weavers and Dyers, or other spinning group, and line up homes for their lovely fleeces next year :) j