The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: crobertson on April 03, 2017, 09:50:53 pm
-
Hi guys
Last week we lambed our first 6 texel shearlings and out of the 6 had to assist 5! I used a derbyshire gritstone ram and all lambs were narrow in the shoulders, vigorous etc but just presented wrong with one or two legs back. Is there anything that contributes to this ? Maybe because its their first time lambing ? I'm happy with the size of the lambs as I wanted to avoid a texel type ram for obvious problems but this seems a high percentage to assist ! All lambs are perfect, very vigorous growing fantastic.
Any advice would be appreciated
-
Make sure all your girls have all the minerals they need throughout pregnancy. Low selenium can cause malpresentations, I think, for instance.
Personally, I wouldn't use that tup again, either.
-
Thanks for that, they have all been well fed throughout pregnancy, have mineral buckets and lifeline buckets and the lambs themselves have come out amazingly fit and healthy just with a leg or two back at lambing meaning we had to help.
-
I hope it's not the ewes' breeding :fc:
-
Possibly, we are hoping to go into purebred gritstones this year so I guess next lambing we shall see !
-
I'm still learning in terms of lambing as this was only my third year doing it but wanted to share my thoughts with mine so far! First year lambed 5 ewes and had to help 4 out of the five, second year had to help one out of the 5 and this year only one. For me i think for me it was them gaining experience but mostly me learning to wait and not jump in too quickly.
The first year i had a breach, tangled triplets and false ring womb to deal with, i was undecided about breeding from them again after that first year but so glad i did and the two that ive had to help with since have only been minor things (touch wood!)
-
We have easycare for this reason - low input no problems. Easycare is Wiltshire horn x welsh Nelson. No shearing. They do need controlling and electric fence training. We like these because they 1. no shearing costs 2. little intervention 3. hardy 4. medium sheep so not too big to deal with.
Im not expert in sheep and the breeding and crossing behind closed doors is not good. Even with Easycare someone is adding Texel to them which in my eyes is totally wrong. Buying top notch ewes/lambs in like playing roulette you just dont know what you are bringing into the flock with poor genetics.
I have no idea what a Gritstone is - again unless you know the breeding genetics on this one you dont know what is happening with the crossing. I would have gone for a run of the mill breed like a lleyn/welsh (nice small lambs) first time.
-
The Texel is fast losing ground as a terminal sire around here due to lambing problems with the ewe's pelvis and the lamb's short neck. We use a Southdown ram on our Badger Face every other year, to give us a commercial type store lamb to sell at market, and never have any lambing problems. This is using a terminal sire breed on a mountain breed. I wonder if the long-legged Gritstone side of things on a stocky lowland breed led to problems - not enough room for the legs to sort themselves out in the right order?
-
I have no idea what a Gritstone is
Gritstone (http://www.derbyshiregritstonesheep.com/) are a very old native breed from Derbyshire. A friend of mine used to keep them - very sturdy, stocky looking sheep :thumbsup:.
(http://derbyshiregritstonesheep.moonfruit.com/communities/8/004/013/266/658//images/4624619933.jpg)
-
From your other posts and pictures im going to say you overfed them , this gave less room for the lambs in the womb to move around plus internal fat in the mother causing less room , especially in first time lambing . The pictures of your first lambs show nice lambs , not to big heads or thick legs but large for gimmer twins , good size even for ewes . A nice weight for gim twin lambs circa 4kg . You'll get better with experience so far ive been lambing 4days 25 ish lambed and not only have I not touched one ive not seen one born yet , various breeds including texel x ewes to texel rams .
-
So, [member=9755]shep53[/member], what condition score do you aim for at tupping and at the various points of pregnancy then?
We found last year that our ewes lost condition rapidly during their final trimester, to the point where I was concerned about twin lamb disease etc. This year, they've kept condition really well (warmer weather and better grass I think), to the point at which I'm worried the ones carrying singles may be too fat, despite only having had minimal feed.
So, one of my aims for next year is to have a much more organised / scientific approach to feeding and condition scores throughout pregnancy. Can you give some pointers as to how to go about that? :thumbsup:
-
Ooooo yes that would be really interested as with them not being scanned I wanted to avoid possible twin lamb disease but a tip next year might be to cut down the feed although they weren't fed that much or that overweight in my opinion (approx condition score 3 with some being approx 2.5).
I do love the derbyshire gritstones, I chose the ram as they are an old breed, local to us and thought what better can there be for our type of land! But rather than the overfeeding I think Marches Farmer is right, the lambs are leggy which on a lowland texel ewe they might have not have had enough room to sort their legs out. Coincidentally the ewe with a single, who obviously had all of the room to himself, was presented correctly.
-
Over feeding or under feeding is hard to avoid when you lack experience and when you have flocks too small to easily devide up or worth getting a scanner to. I had two singles, two twins, one set triplets this year. One of the singles was earlish and bang on weight, the other latish and a first timer. My learning for next year is to try to give the first timers a bit less. But the main problem was she was in with the mothers for an entire week after they had all produced so difficult to avoid over feeding her.
-
crobertson your ewes were at the perfect cs but you must remember that in the last 6 wks it is a fine line trying to not let the ewe loose to much condition and growing the lamb , even 100-200 gms per day extra can increase lamb birthweight . You cannot be precise as all breeds are slightly different , my texel x's are always 1/2 a cs ahead of the highlander x's . Last year my silage was very wet and so the sheep had trouble consuming enough so the twins had 800 gms of an 18% nut + lifeline . this year the ewes were in better condition and the silage is much dryer so 300gms + lifeline . IF ewes are loosing condition in jan or feb I will start them on nuts to try and put condition on or at least hold them , this has no effect on the lamb at this early stage . IT is always difficult for a smallholder with a few sheep to feed them separately
-
Thanks for that, very useful guide !
This year ours had hay from January and a lifeline bucket in the last 4 weeks (lid was put on at night) with 18% nuts in the morning and evening. The jug I used holds approx 1kg so between 6 that is 166g each serving so approximately 350g per day. The ewes looking very healthy throughout and as they are friendly it was easy to condtion score every couple of days. I am thrilled with the lambs, all good, even sizes, no tiny lambs, no massive lambs, extremely vigorous, we've not had to do anything no fatalities, no top up feeding, no weak lambs, nothing ! My only comment would be they presented with legs back when lambing - the more I think about it this may well be the legginess of the gritstone on a lowland ewe.
-
A Blue Faced Leicester ram will be 30-50 kg heavier and 6-9" taller than your gritstones and it goes with Scottish blackface / hill cheviot and other hill breeds which are smaller than your tex x no problem and the lambs are all leg with a very long body