The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: crobertson on March 25, 2017, 07:57:36 pm
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We are registered with the local vet our dogs are at (mixture of small and farm animals) I have a bit of lambing experience but this has been my first time lambing my own. I had a bit of a tricky lambing the other day, the 1st and then 2nd twin both presented with both front legs back but it was very difficult to push the lamb back in as the ewe was constantly contracting and then when I did the front legs were very tucked up. I felt uncomfortable at this point, rang the vets and asked if a vet could come out to me as I was in on my own and they just said 'well we don't come out to lambing problems, you'll have to bring it to us'. I kind of thought this was a bit off hand as we're good, paying customers, happy to pay call out fees etc and essentially asking for help, I can't exactly drag an exhausted ewe into a trailer for a bumpy 30 minute drive. Is this normal practice for vets ..............
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No
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I agree - "no".
What a shame for you - a good relationship with vets that you trust is hugely valuable...
Maybe time to ask around for some local alternative recommendations...
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I would question the legality of moving an animal in pain over that distance ?
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No definitely not- I would find a new vet preferably one that only deals with large animals. Our dogs are too registered at a mixed practice but the farm has a dedicated large animal vet.
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My tenant was given the same response from the vet.I had to make the phone call.Could he possibly take the ewe in to the surgery to Bridgnorth 15 miles away .Last year when advised the lamd was dead inside the ewe...they pointed out that their fee would be more than the ewe was worth and was he sure that he wanted a vet to come out.Do vets not have some kind of code like doctors ?..When the vet did come out he managed to save the ewe though.
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I've just replied on a separate thread.
I've had to take a ewe to the vets a couple of times, a prolapse and a bad lambing. The first time they weren't able to send a vets because they didn't have one to send, but would give me prioroty if I took her to them. Second time I just took her there.
The ewe traveled well both times and didn't appear distressed and it was a lot faster than waiting for a vet to turn up. Its also a lot cheaper as there isn't a call out.
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"My tenant was given the same response from the vet.I had to make the phone call.Could he possibly take the ewe in to the surgery to Bridgnorth 15 miles away .Last year when advised the lamd was dead inside the ewe...they pointed out that their fee would be more than the ewe was worth and was he sure that he wanted a vet to come out.Do vets not have some kind of code like doctors ?..When the vet did come out he managed to save the ewe though."
I guess that this is the difference between a smallholder with a few pet sheep and a commercial producer with a thousand. If the vets did not know the client then they are right to explain the options although maybe it could be explained more sympathetically.
Even when you take a pet dog to the vet they will diagnose for about £30 then explain what forward treatment is required and the cost together with an opinion on the chances of survival and you then make a decision.
Regen
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Normal practice in this area of sheepy Wales ... Sheep travels ok and sees vet quicker .... Or even sorts herself out on route giving birth in van in vet carpark before vet comes out to her as one of ours did this week!
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I can completely understand if they had said there isn't a vet available to come out at the min, it would be quicker for you to come to us but it was just a no we don't come out to lambing problems. As i was on my own and the ewe was exhausted I couldn't even get her to stand up, let alone into a trailer and the lambs head was already fully out by this point.
Luckily I just persisted and managed to deliver both lambs who are now feisty bundles of joy !
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In my experience with Vets as with other professions there are good ones, average ones and not so good ones.
We are very lucky in our area that we are surrounded by veterinary practices and have used them all over the last 35 years. We use one for the horses (specialist equine) one for the sheep/farm animals and one for small animals. I must say if one wouldn't come out to see an animal in distress then the account would be closed the next day along with most of our local farming community knowing about this within a week!
We have found some of the recently qualified vets are thrown in at the deep end and can get a bit flustered on occasion, this can be quite entertaining sometimes ;D
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We do understand that, with clients all over the County and across the Welsh border, our vets may be delayed at times but they specialise in farm and equine and have always been excellent. I'm sure there have been a number of occasions when we've called them out when, if I guddled around inside the ewe for longer, I could have lambed them myself but this is a judgement call where I prefer to err on the side of caution. If the ewe gets tired the lambs are also likely to be tired and then you're risking poor mothering up, tubing, using an adopter and so on.
We had one yesterday with one leg back where we just couldn't get the lamb back in the ewe was pushing so hard, even with her back end tipped up on a bale and lots of lubricant, so when the lamb's tongue started to go purple we just had to cross our fingers and haul away. Fortunately, probably aided by all that lubricant, it came out OK, but it was an interesting ten minutes.
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You need to find a farm vets and be registered with them. Ours is based just under 1hr away however they are a big practice and have vets in the area. They are usually here within an hour. Our local vets is mixed however again they would ask to bring them in.
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Very common here - there's only one vet and they have a huge, huge area to cover, so at this time of year sheep go in to them.
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Yeah, I would expect to have to take the ewe in (and my vets are a big farm vet practice). It's not like it can't walk in that state, so fit to travel to vets IMHO. If the vets were to attend every bad lambing they wouldn't have time to do anything else.
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It's not like it can't walk in that state, so fit to travel to vets IMHO. If the vets were to attend every bad lambing they wouldn't have time to do anything else.
But isn't that what they're there for?
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Normal to take ewes to the vet in this part of Wales too.
Not saying that they would refuse to come out but the norm is that sheep are taken to the practice.
Think that they struggle to cope at this time of year. They were rearranging all the non urgent small animal appointments last week as they tried to deal with all the lambing problems!
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We must be very lucky... our farm vets are only based up the road but come out to everything as standard and don't ask farmers to bring animals to them. No call out fee either just pay for the time on the farm and they also drop in meds free of charge :)
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I can completely understand the disappointment of the OP. They had an expectation of the service they wanted and their experience fell short of that. I suppose that when we register with a vet we need to do more than give our name and actually discuss what we expect and what service they offer to avoid disappointment but also to be sure the vet provides what we expect.
Well done for sorting out the problem yourself.
I have said this before and I know it isn't always possible but having a local shepherd you can call on is a really useful thing at lambing time.
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Interesting different opinions here, I can understand vets being rushed off their feet, not only sheep of course, all animal babies coming thick and fast I should think.
Glad to hear you managed CR, good outcome.
I try and get mine to the vet, about 30 mins away, not sure which I would do in an emergency.
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I think there is something here about clarity of expectations. The trouble is, from the vet's point of view, we're not 'normal' customers, so until the vets get to know us personally, it's no wonder that their 'normal' procedures and advice don't always match our needs or expectations.
For example, the first time we had a ewe with an infection, I called our vet to discuss it. He was confused as to why it even needed discussion and asked 'which antibiotics have you tried so far?'. When I explained that we didn't keep any in stock, he was fine to prescribe them. However, when I went to collect them, the bottle was handed over without a syringe and without instructions.
Obviously I'm now fine with all that; we keep stock of syringes, and I know how to give an injection. At the time though, it was really quite bewildering. (Thank goodness for TAS eh? :thumbsup:.)
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I think there is something here about clarity of expectations. The trouble is, from the vet's point of view, we're not 'normal' customers, so until the vets get to know us personally, it's no wonder that their 'normal' procedures and advice don't always match our needs or expectations.
But surely it is up to us to let them know what animals we keep and ask what services they offer. We shouldn't make assumptions. Finding out a vet doesn't routinely come out to lambing problems is something you want to know before you make that call and you are perhaps not in the best frame of mind to find out they don't.
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Our vets are farm & equine only and although we've taken lambs to them in the past they normally visit. There are ten vets at the practice.
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Our vets are farm & equine only and although we've taken lambs to them in the past they normally visit. There are ten vets at the practice.
That is really good MF to have that facility. Unfortunately most vets now don't want to do farm practicing as it isn't cost effective. Our first vets gave up farms.
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To be fair, most comercial farmers, and that covers 999 out of 1000 would have dealt with a non high value (Read sire breeding) lambing issue themselves, and the rifle or the best efforts would be the case, and as such the vet would be just acting as normal. A ewe worth 60 avg (ignore the smallholder pricing and think auction) with 1 or 2 lambs, which are worth 0 until weaned, is not worth a vets call out.
As such make clear your animals are pets, or your prepared to pay more than the animal is worth.
Also remember, they may be busy, what if they have surgery on, short staffed or just a busy day, visiting you may simply be a choice of one sheep, (an unimportant meat animal) or several seriously ill dogs and cats. Travel time etc.
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I think both [member=91599]Coximus[/member] and [member=2128]Womble[/member] make good points (as do others). There is certainly something about agreeing expectations. And also that some Smallholders are thinking along the lines of a pet and hence willing to pay disproportionate to £value. In other words, a pet service for a livestock animal. So maybe if you want a pet service it should be a pet service, that is, you take it to the Vet? So three things to consider; the added cost of a call out, the time The Vet spends in the car is the same time the Vet isn't treating someone else's animal, how practical is it to move the animal? I'm struck with how expectations for people has changed so much, home visits by Doctors very rare, and the first think you do in an emergency is call an ambulance, not a Doctor. My animals get a better deal as my Vet service is excellent, but I can see why others are different.
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I think like some have said it is about expectations of a service. I am happy to take ours to the vets, in fact I did so last year with a severe flystrike case etc but when in a situation I think the animal is not fit to travel I hadn't thought that a call out would be refused at a time we really could have done with their help.
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Yes of course [member=146945]crobertson[/member] my point and no doubt some of the others was more generic I would hope a vet responds if at all possible in that situation.
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When I started with sheep, I had much the same response.
My learning curve was the vet turning up for 60 quid, angry I wasted his time for a pedigree ryeland.
He said "tenner to put to sleep or fiver and its instant?"
I said "cant she be treated"
"Shes a sheep, get over it, their are millions of them and they like to die, if you cant accept that your not fit to keep livestock. Shes fecked, she has no teeth and wont live another month, no amount of long grass will be chewed properly. She wont get condition on. End it now."
8 out of 10 sheep needs are preventable!
An eye opener for me and the beginning of a long journey to good husbandry.
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.... whereas I've had the opposite experience. When one ewe had a recurring face abscess (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=75218), our vet basically said "stop thinking you have to behave like a commercial farmer. She's a valuable pedigree animal, and you're giving her the best of care. Provided you don't mind the cost and hassle, and seeing as she's not in pain, I think you should keep her for another lambing at least, and just manage her through it".
He was right too. After the third recurrence in quick succession, the abscess cleared up (I guess she finally managed to expel whatever had got stuck in her jaw to cause it). She's now been fine all winter and is expecting twins in a fortnight.
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I think the two examples above are quite different. The bottom line with Coximus's Ryland was that the sheep was at the end of the line. That wouldn't matter if the sheep was a pedigree or not. That isn't comparable with the second where the complaint was treatable and Womble had the time to treat it. A commercial farmer may or may not have done the same.
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Yes of course. I just wanted to make the point that every case is different - for both the animal and its owner.
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Our vets are great (farm and equine, the dogs go to a different practice). The vets treat me with my 9 pet sheep as courteously as they do my neighbour with 320 and will approach our economic realities differently, knowing that they farm commercially and I don't. I've called them out twice and they've been fine - and when I apologised in advance in case I needed them during lambing (I didn't) they said that's what they're there for