The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Other => Topic started by: Sarahjane610 on February 25, 2017, 11:27:15 pm

Title: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Sarahjane610 on February 25, 2017, 11:27:15 pm
Hi all,

Looking for some advice re insurance for smallholding.  Our house is a bit strange in that it is on a road of several detached houses of different sizes fairly close together.  Originally the house had about an acre at the back like the others and each garden looked onto farmers land.  The previous owners of our house bought the land from the farmer and our house has now 10 acres of land which on one side runs behind 7 houses on the road.

Over the last 2 years, I've added hens, pigs and sheep to the land.  We don't have any big machinery apart from a quad and a small ride on mower as we rent mostly. 

As far as I can see, the only real risks are, a pig or sheep getting into someone's garden and causing damage and our quad and mover getting stolen?  Is it worth getting insurance?  Is there something I've missed?  At this point I'm temped to leave it but would like opinions from you guys first!
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: CarolineJ on February 26, 2017, 08:26:44 pm
The big risk you need to insure against is a pig or a sheep getting out onto the road and causing a traffic accident - if someone is injured you could be looking at thousands and thousands in costs and compensation.  I'd say third-party liability is a must.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Foobar on February 27, 2017, 03:17:57 pm
You need public liability insurance to cover any accidents caused by your animals.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Womble on February 27, 2017, 03:40:26 pm
Would anybody be willing to say what they're paying for public liability insurance?  I had some ludicrous quotes last year and threw them in the bin in disgust. I really need to look at it again though.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Sarahjane610 on February 28, 2017, 06:42:52 pm
Thanks guys - I would love to hear some figures as well as so far they look really high.  As the animals are all electric fenced inside stock fencing and to get to a road they would have to go through someone's house, I'm still leaning on the side of hoping for the best and maybe putting aside some money in case........
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: DavidandCollette on March 01, 2017, 09:12:12 am
I think it is a must. Will get my figures out later and post. Apart from escaping animals causing mayhem you also need to take account of unwelcomed visits by numpties who might mak a claim having sustsined an injury whilst trying to rob you
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: CarolineJ on March 02, 2017, 01:08:47 pm
I get £2m public and product liability for £100 a year.  That's on the AXA Smallholders policy, bought through Farmers & Mercantile.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: BrimwoodFarm on March 02, 2017, 04:50:37 pm
I get £2m public and product liability for £100 a year.  That's on the AXA Smallholders policy, bought through Farmers & Mercantile.

That's great to know. I got a quote of over £500 from NFU and that was only for a small business add-on with maximum turnover of £10K.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Womble on March 02, 2017, 05:42:33 pm
Yes, same here, Brimwood Farm, except our quote was £600 a year, for a business that turns over less than £2K!

Thanks for the info, Caroline. I'll definitely follow that one up  :thumbsup: .
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: PK on March 04, 2017, 09:06:25 pm
Following this lead I got a quote from F&M yesterday just for £2m public liability (no cover for farm buildings or equipment, nor loss of livestock as I am primarily interested in public liability insurance) and it came out at £350.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Womble on March 04, 2017, 10:00:06 pm
So let me get this right, the price to insure against some placid, peace loving herbivores getting out and causing an accident, or nibbling a passing walker to death, is the same as it costs to insure a tonne or so of metal capable of travelling at 90mph?    ???

I sail an extreme racing dinghy (http://www.aco.com/typo3temp/pics/Iver_Ahlmann_Musto_Skiff_Weymouth_2012_02_0a3f5f4a86.jpg) that I am only barely in control of most of the time, and insuring it fully comp. including £5M of third party sorry I ran you over liability costs less than that.

Bonkers!
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: CarolineJ on March 05, 2017, 12:17:54 pm
Following this lead I got a quote from F&M yesterday just for £2m public liability (no cover for farm buildings or equipment, nor loss of livestock as I am primarily interested in public liability insurance) and it came out at £350.

Crumbs.  I guess this is one of the occasions where living in the middle of nowhere has its advantages!
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: harmony on March 05, 2017, 12:25:39 pm
So let me get this right, the price to insure against some placid, peace loving herbivores getting out and causing an accident, or nibbling a passing walker to death, is the same as it costs to insure a tonne or so of metal capable of travelling at 90mph?    ???

I sail an extreme racing dinghy (http://www.aco.com/typo3temp/pics/Iver_Ahlmann_Musto_Skiff_Weymouth_2012_02_0a3f5f4a86.jpg) that I am only barely in control of most of the time, and insuring it fully comp. including £5M of third party sorry I ran you over liability costs less than that.

Bonkers!


I think deer could also be described as similar to your "placid, peace loving herbivires" and they can write your car off! Most cows might also be described as such until they get their silly head on!
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Womble on March 05, 2017, 03:34:48 pm
That's right Harmony, but I think you're mixing up hazard and risk here.

Of course a sheep could write off a car, or even worse cause it to crash injuring the passengers. However, it costs me £200 to insure my car (less if I only wanted third party). Surely there is more chance of me crashing my car into another car or pedestrian during my daily driving than there is of my sheep getting out AND causing an accident? I just don't get the disparity between the different premiums, that's all.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Black Sheep on March 05, 2017, 04:50:01 pm
But you have multiple sheep and they could potentially each escape and cause accidents (or other liabilities) 24 hours a day. You have one car and only drive it for a limited period each day (or less).

I guess premiums are also influenced by the chances of a successful claim (a car accident could be partially the fault of more than one party whereas a sheep escape is more likely to all be attributed to the owner) and the size of that claim (are most claims on car insurance small amounts for minor damage as opposed to major injuries?).
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: pharnorth on March 05, 2017, 09:15:56 pm
So where are the stats to show that sheep cause more road accidents than cars?  If you choose a Fiat Punto up you pay less insutprance than a Series 5 BMW based on actual claim stats. Sheep apparently have more accidents than a Fiat Punto. Bloody sheep shouldn't be allowed on the roads.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Black Sheep on March 05, 2017, 10:35:55 pm
Maybe because sheep don't have crumple zones :-)

I doubt there are any such stats... but a logical basis for lower risk never stopped an insurance company charging more for a premium before ;-)

In reality we've focused narrowly on one aspect and there will be so many different variables at play behind this. Plus whatever the underwriter thinks they can charge in what looks very likely to be a much less competitive marketplace than car insurance.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: CarolineJ on March 06, 2017, 06:45:56 am
Even odder, my sheep will be more likely to cause accidents than most because I'm a crofter and the A836 goes right through the middle of our common grazings - and yes, I did let the insurers know about this!
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Womble on March 06, 2017, 08:47:30 am
Aha!  So it's you that's putting the premiums up then Caroline?  :innocent:
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: harmony on March 06, 2017, 09:03:40 am
That's right Harmony, but I think you're mixing up hazard and risk here.

Of course a sheep could write off a car, or even worse cause it to crash injuring the passengers. However, it costs me £200 to insure my car (less if I only wanted third party). Surely there is more chance of me crashing my car into another car or pedestrian during my daily driving than there is of my sheep getting out AND causing an accident? I just don't get the disparity between the different premiums, that's all.


I don't think we are meant to understand insurance premiums and under writing policies. I think it is to a degree about competitiveness in the market. All we can do is get the best quote possible. For years I had a trekking centre. We had to cover for 5K minimum. We never had a claim in over 20 odd years but because of other peoples claims we had to pay the price. At one point so few companies would touch equestrian insurance there was little we could do to but except the high premiums.


If a company has just one huge claim against it the premiums of everyone will be affected down the line. Companies will know what claims they have had in the past and cost and will then work out their risk.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Foobar on March 06, 2017, 03:09:07 pm
The high cost is because they will only include it with some other insurance, like contents or farm insurance.  The PL itself is probably a lot less.  I had a smallholders quote from MVF and they broke down the costs, the "Public and Product Liability" line was £131.  Again, there is "Product" liability there too, bumping up the price no doubt, and it may even cover things like accidental pollution etc.
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: CarolineJ on March 06, 2017, 04:07:30 pm
Aha!  So it's you that's putting the premiums up then Caroline?  :innocent:

 :roflanim:  Not yet, but the North Coast 500 is getting quite popular with sports cars - I dread to think what the claim would be if one of my ewes wandered out in front of a Bugatti Veyron, for example...
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Badger Nadgers on March 12, 2017, 09:19:37 pm
I'm on the Stuart Benger "silver" smallholder insurance.  £200ish,
http://www.stuartbenger.co.uk/download/20 (http://www.stuartbenger.co.uk/download/20)
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: westcoastcroft on March 17, 2017, 09:16:12 am
NFU
Product liability, farms building and up to about 30k worth of stock and public liability about £200 - but only along with contents and loss for our caravan at about ~£350 - caravans in my experience ar always really expensive to insure. if anybody knows anywhere cheap to cover a residential caravan would be interested to know who?
Title: Re: Small holders insurance - do i need it?
Post by: Penninehillbilly on March 17, 2017, 10:48:45 am
Interesting this has come up for the first time for us. Bought extra land in 2009, started keeping goats and sheep.
New quote for house from existing insurers bounced up to over £900!!!!
Went to broker who knows our situation, said the land etc should be insured and we should get the lot for less than our quote. Filled details in, waiting to hear from him
So do your smallholders insurances include your houses?