The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: moprabbit on December 03, 2016, 11:10:28 pm
-
I've just posted a query about injecting Heptavac subcutaneously and had some really useful replies (thank you), but now I have a question about the actual effects after vaccination. I have 4 ewes, so when I inject I always use 4 brand new needles and syringes. Each year some or all of them get lumps on their necks where I've injected. The lump eventually bursts and there are no problems, but why do they get them?
My other concern is for the last 2 years one of my ewes has shown effects after the injection (despite having had injections for the last 4 years without any effects) Two years ago she was just not 'normal ' for a couple of days and was licking her lips a lot. Last year a few hours after the injection, she was lying down and seemed to be 'twitching'. I'm just a bit worried about the effects this year and wondered if anyone else has had anything similar? Thanks.
-
Do you breed these ewes moprabbit? If not, do you really need to Heptavac them? Sheep usually build up their own resistance to many diseases as they get older. Heptavac given to ewes provides cover for their lambs to get them through the early danger period until they can be injected and build up their own immunity. It would be worth a chat with your vet, as you could be putting your ewes through unnecessary treatments.
Modified to say - this is incorrect as shown later in this thread, but I have left it here for interest.
-
I give mine a booster four weeks before the first lambing date. Lumps are often caused by the adjuvant (what the vaccine's mixed with to increase the immune response). Sometimes these are quite oily and take a while to disperse.
-
Thanks for the replies. No, Fleece wife, I don't breed from my ewes. I know that Heptavac gives the lambs their immunity, but I always thought it protected the adults from clostridial diseases etc. I'll talk to my vet tomorrow about it. Thank you.
-
Please let us know your vet's opinion :thumbsup:
-
Thanks for the replies. No, Fleece wife, I don't breed from my ewes. I know that Heptavac gives the lambs their immunity, but I always thought it protected the adults from clostridial diseases etc. I'll talk to my vet tomorrow about it. Thank you.
Yes, please do let us know moprabbit. I don't bred from my ewes either so if I don't have to Hepvac them it would save me the job and the cost
-
YES it protects the the ewes especially the pasturella part , rams don't pass on immunity to their lambs yet you still have to protect them and many do them every 6months , the gamble is yours to take many people don't inject at all and have no problems . If you are using new needles for every sheep and getting lumps on all, then have you looked at your technique needle size ? injection site ?
-
Thanks for the reply Shep. In my other post about subcutaneous injections I asked for advice about other places to inject rather than the neck, as I find that quite tricky - so some advice was to inject over the ribs. I use a 5 eighths x 1 inch needle, make a little 'tent' in the skin and inject into that.
I'm just worried about the side effects on one of my ewes for the last two years, but I'll ring my vet and see what he says.
Thanks for the replies.
-
Please let us know regarding any advice you are given moprabbit.
We aren't breeding from our ewes at the moment but continue to give the booster. I assumed this was necessary for their continued protection. I guess that they may be less likely to suffer from these illnesses as they get older and natural immunity develops but that the booster will improve resistance to infections and lessen any risk.
One or two of ours develop puss filled lumps each year and it does worry me as they eventually burst and must surely be a fly strike risk.
I have wondered whether our technique is at fault but can't seem to improve matters. :(
Or maybe it is a reaction to the drug itself?
-
Suggestions for injections: inject sheep when completely dry; if injecting in the neck turn the head to the side of the injection to give enough slack in the skin to make a good tent; aim the needle almost horizontally across the base of the tent, making sure it doesn't go through and out the other side; rub the injection site gently afterwards.
-
Thanks for that advice Marches Farmer, I'll definitely try making sure I turn the head.
I spoke to my vet about Heptavac and he said non breeding ewes should have the injection as it gives them protection as Shep53 said in his post.
I told the vet about my ewe who'd had some sort of reaction to Heptavac for the last 2 years and he suggested I didn't inject her this year in case her reaction this year is more severe.
I hope this is of interest to others.
-
Have you tried or looked at the STERIAMATIC injection system , personally I use 12or 15 mm needles for subcutaneous injections
-
I haven't tried that system, Shep, but I'll certainly have a look. Thanks.
-
Thanks for that advice Marches Farmer, I'll definitely try making sure I turn the head.
I spoke to my vet about Heptavac and he said non breeding ewes should have the injection as it gives them protection as Shep53 said in his post.
I told the vet about my ewe who'd had some sort of reaction to Heptavac for the last 2 years and he suggested I didn't inject her this year in case her reaction this year is more severe.
I hope this is of interest to others.
thanks moprabbit. Definitely useful. I will still be doing my non breeding uses in Feb
-
If you don't want to use Sterimatic, then try shorter needles like 1/2" (18g), you might find them a bit easier to handle. And use 2ml syringes rather than any of the bigger sizes.
-
Hi moprabbit , interested to hear your post injection issues , when I first used hep p many moons ago ,on adult sheep and lambs that hadn't been on the system before and they also had adverse reactions. They too , not all of them but a significant number , had a reaction , they were just not right, sat down looking generally unhappy and lethargic for about 24hrs and then were ok. I reported it to my vet who filled out a form in the back of his meds book which they use , like doctors , to report adverse reactions. Just out of interest I always do sub cut injections over the ribs behind the front leg . :wave:
-
Thanks for the advice Foobar - I'll try smaller needles and syringes.
That's interesting Melmarsh to hear about adverse reactions in your sheep. Did you continue to inject them each year? As I mentioned in one of my posts, my vet suggested I didn't inject my one ewe that has had adverse reactions for the last 2 years in case it gets worse. She was off colour for a day or so the first time, then last year she was lying down 'twitching' .
-
At that time.no!! I changed it to lambivac as I had goats at the time who have lambivac and an injection called pasticidin . At the moment I have sheep again.and use hep p again and.no ill effects so far .
-
Just another question about Heptavac - my vet suggested I didn't inject my ewe that had shown an adverse reaction for the last 2 years after her jab, I just wondered if there was another vaccine that did a similar job? Or anything else I could use for this ewe to protect her against any of the diseases that Heptavac covers, as I'm a bit worried about her not being protected. Thank you.
-
Just another question about Heptavac - my vet suggested I didn't inject my ewe that had shown an adverse reaction for the last 2 years after her jab, I just wondered if there was another vaccine that did a similar job? Or anything else I could use for this ewe to protect her against any of the diseases that Heptavac covers, as I'm a bit worried about her not being protected. Thank you.
There are others, but I only have experience of Lambivac and Ovipast (used on the goats). A question for the vet I think... but I think the ewes will build up some level of ongoing immunity if they have been vaccinated for a few years. I wouldn't be unduly concerned about not vaccinating one of your girls, especially if they are non-breeding and have a generally stress-free life. However I would think about cover against Pasteurella (Pneumonia). But if you buy one whole bottle of it for one sheep it does really get expensive...
-
Thanks for that Anke I'll get in contact with the vet and ask about other products and about cover for pasteurella.
-
Just a quick update on this post if anyone is interested. Spoke to my vet who told me I could use Ovivac as a alternative to Heptavac, or use Ovipast in order to protect against Pasteurella, as suggested by Anke. So I think I'm going to use Ovipast.
-
Just a quick update on this post if anyone is interested. Spoke to my vet who told me I could use Ovivac as a alternative to Heptavac, or use Ovipast in order to protect against Pasteurella, as suggested by Anke. So I think I'm going to use Ovipast.
I am assuming it's cheaper? I think I will look into it too
-
It's common for farmers in this area to use Ovivac P Plus all through a ewe's life.
-
I suppose I should have asked the vet but do you know the difference between Heptavac and Ovivac ,Marches Farmer? What do you think about just vaccinating against pasteurella with Ovipast?
-
Ovivac and lambivac also cover clostridial disease, but fewer types than heptavac(which also covers pasteurella). Ovipast only covers Pasteurella.
As a vet, I'd recommend covering all of these that you can, as most clostridial disease can cause sudden death or serious life threatening disease that is almost impossible to treat.
I recently started covering my sheep and goats with heptavac p, as I had lost an old tup and an old ewe, which could have been pasteurella, or a clostridial septicaemia, and I wanted to give them as much protection as I can.
It is always an individual decision, particularly following adverse reactions, but as clostridia are in the ground everywhere, every farm has some risk.
-
Thanks for your reply Fsmnutter. I'm worried about not giving my ewe Heptavac again, but was advised not to because of the adverse reactions for 2 years. I'm now wondering if I should try Ovivac to cover some of the clostridial diseases and pasteurella but hopefully not cause any adverse reaction if it's slightly different to Heptavac?