The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: davet on November 07, 2016, 09:26:14 am
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Hi,
I'm aware that the modern advice for foot trimming is to do it a lot less ("only when it needs it") then it used to be.
Is this page good guidance?
http://www.raisingsheep.net/how-to-trim-sheep-hooves.html (http://www.raisingsheep.net/how-to-trim-sheep-hooves.html)
Thanks
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Yes.
If you are interested, Agnes Winter has written a book on lameness if you want to learn more about foot troubles and trimming, it has lots of photos: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lameness-Sheep-Agnes-C-Winter/dp/1861267215/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1478513097&sr=8-6&keywords=agnes+winter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lameness-Sheep-Agnes-C-Winter/dp/1861267215/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1478513097&sr=8-6&keywords=agnes+winter)
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This is also useful: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/lifesci/research/greengroup/farmersandvets/footrotinsheep/ (http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/lifesci/research/greengroup/farmersandvets/footrotinsheep/)
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This is also useful: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/lifesci/research/greengroup/farmersandvets/footrotinsheep/ (http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/lifesci/research/greengroup/farmersandvets/footrotinsheep/)
> Do not foot trim sheep with overgrown feet unless it is affecting their ability to walk – on many farms long feet will wear away naturally.
Interesting, and quite bold. So even if they looked like "Overgrown Sheep Hoof" on the link in the OP I should still leave them alone.
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Interesting, and quite bold. So even if they looked like "Overgrown Sheep Hoof" on the link in the OP I should still leave them alone.
OK, let's look at the 'before' photo in your first link davet:
(http://www.raisingsheep.net/uploads/1/3/5/3/13538303/2716300_orig.jpg)
In the image above you can see a very overgrown sheep hoof with growth curling over the pad or sole of the foot and down from the heel. This condition makes it easy for bacteria, bedding or mud to get caught between the hooves or in the space between the overgrown flap and the healthy hoof, creating an ideal environment for the anaerobic bacteria which cause hoof rot.
Personally, I've been leaving hooves like that well alone. Since sheep walk on the edges of their feet, as long as the foot is still standing straight on the ground, I'm actually quite pleased when I see the hoof curving under like that, as it means there's no pocket developing (an ongoing problem with our sheep). My worry would be that if you trim the foot as suggested (see pic below), the hoof wall might start coming away from the base, causing a 'shelly hoof' pocket that dirt and stones can get trapped in.
(http://www.raisingsheep.net/uploads/1/3/5/3/13538303/6475511_orig.jpg)
Any thoughts folks? have I got this wrong, and would you trim the hoof in the first picture?
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One of our shearlings has overgrown feet like in that picture, she was lame on it and had a bit of scald in there back in September but we didn't trim. She's sound now but mud was getting in under the overgrown bit and making her sore, so I will probably ask our shearer friend to have a look in May when she's shorn.
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Interesting, and quite bold. So even if they looked like "Overgrown Sheep Hoof" on the link in the OP I should still leave them alone.
OK, let's look at the 'before' photo in your first link davet:
(http://www.raisingsheep.net/uploads/1/3/5/3/13538303/2716300_orig.jpg)
In the image above you can see a very overgrown sheep hoof with growth curling over the pad or sole of the foot and down from the heel. This condition makes it easy for bacteria, bedding or mud to get caught between the hooves or in the space between the overgrown flap and the healthy hoof, creating an ideal environment for the anaerobic bacteria which cause hoof rot.
Personally, I've been leaving hooves like that well alone. Since sheep walk on the edges of their feet, as long as the foot is still standing straight on the ground, I'm actually quite pleased when I see the hoof curving under like that, as it means there's no pocket developing (an ongoing problem with our sheep). My worry would be that if you trim the foot as suggested (see pic below), the hoof wall might start coming away from the base, causing a 'shelly hoof' pocket that dirt and stones can get trapped in.
(http://www.raisingsheep.net/uploads/1/3/5/3/13538303/6475511_orig.jpg)
Any thoughts folks? have I got this wrong, and would you trim the hoof in the first picture?
I was taught to trim back a hoof like that first photo - but that was several years ago with a very old-school teacher. Be interested in opinions :)
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I would certainly trim a foot like the first photograph, but curve the cut to leave the "bulb" at the back of the foot in place as I find this holds the horn of each clee under tension so a pocket doesn't develop. I wouldn't trim the horn at the front as low as the second photograph - I lay the footshears flat against the clee so the horn is always the depth of the blade proud of the base of the foot. With good grazing on heavy clay there's little chance of horn overgrown like the first photograph wearing away.
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The wider bit, which I think you're calling the "bulb", which I was thinking of as the "heel" is what made me look at this again. When we bought our sheep I remember being shown trimming off any really flappy bits down the long sides, but thinking back that might have been for the same of a demonstration, rather than "this particularly needs doing".
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Would I be right in thinking that if you are showing sheep,there is still an expectation that the feet look 'tidy'?
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Unless the sheep was limping I wouldn't give the foot in the first picture a second look and 30yrs ago I was trimming all feet twice a year as was the advice at the time ! YES if you are showing tidy feet look better and help the sheep to stand square
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I'm with womble and the other 'leave well alone' posts.... Since we've very intentionally reduced trimming to absolute necessity we've been getting fewer issues...
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Is this page good guidance?
http://www.raisingsheep.net/how-to-trim-sheep-hooves.html (http://www.raisingsheep.net/how-to-trim-sheep-hooves.html)
Worth noting that it appears to be an American site and thus recommended practices may vary. Environmental conditions, other farming practices and even the tendencies of the blood lines out there may be very different.
The biggest alarm bell to me with the article is this bit that says "It's obvious that finishing the job will be good for the sheep and a clean, trimmed hoof won't give bacteria anywhere to hide". Many things that seem "obvious" actually turn out to be harmful when you properly test them and as for bacteria having "nowhere to hide", these are microorganisms that coat every surface - they can hide in the microscopic creases of the hoof surface!
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Isn't it a picture of a goat hoof rather than a sheep ??? My goats get trimmed regularly, my sheep only at shearing if they are really overgrown.
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^ I was just thinking that, CC. If it is a sheep, it's a very hairy one!
Blacksheep - in the link, they say that footrot bacteria are anaerobic. If so, trimming to expose them to air does have a sort of logic to it don't you think?
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I was always told never trim footrot feet. Footrot bacteria lives in the soil too hence why it's so contagious. Sort the footrot out first then trim the feet once it's clear and healthy again.
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No apologies for mentioning again that we vaccinated against footrot once, in 2007, and haven't seen footrot or scald since.
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Blacksheep - in the link, they say that footrot bacteria are anaerobic. If so, trimming to expose them to air does have a sort of logic to it don't you think?
Yes, they do seem to be. As anaerobic is about the exclusion of oxygen while I could see the potential plausibility of removing barriers to the passage of air I'm not sure whether removing bits of hoof would actually make a difference. Oxygen travels ok in solution - otherwise our bodies wouldn't function - so in theory could still diffuse through a wet mushy mass caught under an overgrown hoof. A lot also depends on just how sensitive to oxygen the bacteria is - this does vary.
But this is where I was going with the "it's obvious" bit. The hypothesis that removing hoof will reduce anaerobic conditions which should then reduce footrot problems seems to have been tested and found lacking, suggesting that things aren't that simple. For example, although this may even reduce the bacterial load there could be other adverse consequences that outweigh that gain - for example a delayed healing of the tissue once exposed.
There do seem to be a range of other hypotheses (the Warwick link is a very interesting read) that have been tested and found to work - and that is the acid test - does it actually reduce problems. If not it doesn't matter how plausible the rationale sounds - it doesn't work.