The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Jimmy 84 on August 24, 2016, 05:03:25 pm
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Hello,
I'm looking for some Mouflon sheep for something a little different. Does anybody know anyone keeping them in the UK? Could they be imported from Europe? I've been searching but so far found nothing.
Thanks in advance
Jimmy
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A little different in what way? And why not go for one of the many breeds we already have in the country? What do you want to do with them?
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I wouldnt recommend importing atm, bluetongue is pretty bad in Europe.Would [member=29066]Tim W[/member] know?
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Depending on what you're trying to go, might Castlemilk Moorits be close enough? The breed was created from crossing Shetlands, Manx Loaghtans and the wild Mouflon.
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Hi Jimmy- I saw some a year or two ago in Lincs- 3 beautiful rams...and I believe were actually owned by someone with an Iron Age settlement visitor attraction(?) somewhere in The Fens. The person housing them was a bit cagey that they actually had them! You would need a DWA licence and fences would have to be very high and handling could be a bit tricky- similar to deer housing I would have thought...plenty of US breeders. I keep Castlemilk Moorits which, as said, are close-ish to Mouflon (see my ram for sale on the sales page). I think it would be interesting to make them even more wild-type by introducing a greater %age of Mouflon (although some are actually pretty good in terms of look- particularly when shorn). Or what about true Mouflon patterned, normal-horned Soay sheep (again US web sites show a few breeders). It would be interesting to hear if you do indeed track some down as I would be interested in an F1 with a Castlemilk!
cheers,
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Thank you for all your reply's.
I keep wild boar so I'm up to date with all the DWA licensing requirements and the hassle that comes with it. I'm sure handling them will be easy in comparison to wild boar.
I'm after pure Mouflon if possible as I think the meat will compliment the boar meat well and should sell well alongside the boar. I had thought about crosses but like the boar I don't think you can beat the real thing.
Jimmy
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Mouflon are wild animals, living in the mountains of Europe. They would not be happy living in the lush lowlands in Suffolk :o The American version is the Bighorn sheep and again lives in the high mountains. As Fieldfare points out you would need a permit to import and keep a wild animal, along with all its safeguards and regulations, inspections etc and with no experience of keeping wild animals it just isn't going to happen.
Soay are mouflon patterned, as are Castlemilk Moorits and Gulmoget Shetlands, although none have the big horns of the native animal.
Cross posted with Jimmy84: I think wild mouflon are a completely different kettle of fish to wild boar which are very common. The welfare of your animals should come long before your commercial needs and I can't see how a wild, mountain creature would ever be happy in any environment you could provide. I sound negative because I am :(
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Mouflon are wild animals, living in the mountains of Europe. They would not be happy living in the lush lowlands in Suffolk :o The American version is the Bighorn sheep and again lives in the high mountains. As Fieldfare points out you would need a permit to import and keep a wild animal, along with all its safeguards and regulations, inspections etc and with no experience of keeping wild animals it just isn't going to happen.
Soay are mouflon patterned, as are Castlemilk Moorits and Gulmoget Shetlands, although none have the big horns of the native animal.
I think you should read my previous post.
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Mouflon are wild animals, living in the mountains of Europe. They would not be happy living in the lush lowlands in Suffolk :o The American version is the Bighorn sheep and again lives in the high mountains. As Fieldfare points out you would need a permit to import and keep a wild animal, along with all its safeguards and regulations, inspections etc and with no experience of keeping wild animals it just isn't going to happen.
Soay are mouflon patterned, as are Castlemilk Moorits and Gulmoget Shetlands, although none have the big horns of the native animal.
I think you should read my previous post.
Yes I cross-posted with your last post and have now modified mine.
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Hi Jimmy- I saw some a year or two ago in Lincs- 3 beautiful rams...and I believe were actually owned by someone with an Iron Age settlement visitor attraction(?) somewhere in The Fens. The person housing them was a bit cagey that they actually had them! You would need a DWA licence and fences would have to be very high and handling could be a bit tricky- similar to deer housing I would have thought...plenty of US breeders. I keep Castlemilk Moorits which, as said, are close-ish to Mouflon (see my ram for sale on the sales page). I think it would be interesting to make them even more wild-type by introducing a greater %age of Mouflon (although some are actually pretty good in terms of look- particularly when shorn). Or what about true Mouflon patterned, normal-horned Soay sheep (again US web sites show a few breeders). It would be interesting to hear if you do indeed track some down as I would be interested in an F1 with a Castlemilk!
cheers,
I will see if I can hunt the man down in the Fenns as they are not far from me. I will keep you posted as to how I get on. I'm sure if they can survive in the Fenns they will be OK in Suffolk.
Jimmy
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I wouldnt recommend importing atm, bluetongue is pretty bad in Europe.Would [member=29066]Tim W[/member] know?
Recent reports are that BTV spread has slowed a little but we are only just entering the danger time ---it only takes a few days of favourable wind patterns to bring the midges all the way to UK. It also takes 6 weeks from 1st vaccination to get any protection---so panicing once BTV hits the UK is likely a waste of time for those in the south
Mouflon? I know of people in Germany that have used them in breeding programmes
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Hi Jimmy- this might help http://www.camperdownwildlifecentre.com/our-animals/mouflon (http://www.camperdownwildlifecentre.com/our-animals/mouflon)
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Factfile
"Unlike most sheep, female mouflon only have two teats......" :o
On my way out the door to check my sheep mouflon
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All the sheep I've ever kept in my life have only had two teats!
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A midge can be blown 200 miles in a day if the conditions are right. My neighbours and I have just given our sheep the first of the two Bluetongue vaccinations in a small but determined effort to create a firebreak between the east and south of England and Wales. I cannot begin to begin to tell you how totally ****** off we would be if we found BTV8 had been introduced by sheep imported for their novelty value when we have so many and so varied breeds already here, some of which are on the RBST Critical list.
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A midge can be blown 200 miles in a day if the conditions are right. My neighbours and I have just given our sheep the first of the two Bluetongue vaccinations in a small but determined effort to create a firebreak between the east and south of England and Wales. I cannot begin to begin to tell you how totally ****** off we would be if we found BTV8 had been introduced by sheep imported for their novelty value when we have so many and so varied breeds already here, some of which are on the RBST Critical list.
Very well said Marches Farmer.
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<<< Unlike most sheep, female mouflon have only two teats.>>>
I'm in stitches about that too. Ours sometimes have up to 6, but the extras are tiny and non-functioning, and the sheep still have only 2 quarters. Maybe Camperdown are confusing them :cow: or maybe they have mutant sheep :o
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This thread may be useful. Seems like lots were kept in zoos etc so I am sure they would have no issues adapting to a nice field enclosure! I would contact the places mentioned in this link. You will probably find what you're looking for! Let us know!
http://www.zoochat.com/38/last-mouflon-sheep-england-116949/ (http://www.zoochat.com/38/last-mouflon-sheep-england-116949/)
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Have posted on a previous thread..... The BTV free zone in france hasn't moved since last winter. it is no further north than it was then. During the last BTV outbreak we were told the danger period was as temperature rose and vectors began flying again. so far no problems.
I live in an unaffected zone. Trying to get hold of vaccine is nigh on impossible. Whilst the risk of BTV moving further north is real, vaccination of commercial flocks / herds is the best protection. Hence the reason it hasn't moved any further north french farmers are vaccinating. however as last time once you drop your guard it comes back, BTV is here for good.
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This thread may be useful. Seems like lots were kept in zoos etc so I am sure they would have no issues adapting to a nice field enclosure! I would contact the places mentioned in this link. You will probably find what you're looking for! Let us know!
I have read that thread (which dates back some years, last entry 4 years ago), and it seems that almost all the zoo flocks had dissipated or died out or been rehomed. There were an aged pair left at Dudley Zoo, some very aged ewes at Camperdown, and a flock seeking a new tup in Spalding (not in a zoo.)
So I don't think you can conclude that they would
they would have no issues adapting to a nice field enclosure!
- quite the reverse.
It would certainly be worth contacting the lady in Spalding, though.
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Hi Jimmy- have you tried searching in mainland EU? I have just seen this http://www.zwagemaker.biz/mouflon (http://www.zwagemaker.biz/mouflon) so maybe they are in captivity there.
Of course be careful as I am sure there are illegal wildlife traffickers around. If you were going to go for it you might be able to get a few genetic groups? You would prob. be the only breeder in the UK!
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Thank you everyone for their reply's. I've got plenty to get stuck into looking some Mouflon. I would like to reassure people who have replied to the thread with their reservations to me importing from Europe that no stone will be left unturned in making sure any animal I may import is in good health and disease free and legal. I will keep you all posted but I think this may take a while.
Jimmy
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Come on, folks, give a guy a break. Jimmy asked a simple question. Provided he complies with all the rules and regulations, why should we expect him to justify his choices to any of us.? Did any of you have to make excuses because you chose one breed over another ?
That is why I so rarely come on here ...... Help and advice is one thing ..... an inquisition is something else.
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Come on, folks, give a guy a break. Jimmy asked a simple question. Provided he complies with all the rules and regulations, why should we expect him to justify his choices to any of us.? Did any of you have to make excuses because you chose one breed over another ?
That is why I so rarely come on here ...... Help and advice is one thing ..... an inquisition is something else.
Totally agree! Good luck Jimmy :)
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Come on, folks, give a guy a break. Jimmy asked a simple question. Provided he complies with all the rules and regulations, why should we expect him to justify his choices to any of us.? Did any of you have to make excuses because you chose one breed over another ?
That is why I so rarely come on here ...... Help and advice is one thing ..... an inquisition is something else.
Totally agree! Good luck Jimmy :)
yes all the best jimmy. I hope it all works out very well for you. I look forward to seeing how you do with them. If you have any lambs to sell in the future could you give me a buzz? :innocent:
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Yeh I agree. I think if someone wants to try or do something different then best of luck to them. If breeders of yesteryear were happy with what was on offer at the time we wouldn't have the variety of breeds that are on offer today.
Sir John Buchanan-Jardine being an example, if he was happy with pure Shetlands we wouldn't have Castlemilk moorits, or English foxhounds he bred Dumfriesshire Black and Tan hounds, or English gamefowl he bred Jardine fowl.
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Sir John Buchanan-Jardine being an example, if he was happy with pure Shetlands we wouldn't have Castlemilk moorits,
Yes, but were the Mouflon from an area where a deadly sheep disease was known to be circulating?
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Come on, folks, give a guy a break. Jimmy asked a simple question. Provided he complies with all the rules and regulations, why should we expect him to justify his choices to any of us.? Did any of you have to make excuses because you chose one breed over another ?
That is why I so rarely come on here ...... Help and advice is one thing ..... an inquisition is something else.
Totally agree! Good luck Jimmy :)
Yes a simple enough question and I don't think anyone's reply or replies amount to an inquisition? I think people have merely tried to highlight possible implications and I don't see anything wrong with that. The OP may be well aware of them or they may not. If not they are better informed and so is anyone else who might look at the thread. There is a wealth of information and knowledge on this site but there wouldn't be if people didn't take the time to look and reply.
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In reality, you are very unlikely to get import permits, unless the animals have a certified clean bill of health, and may also have to be quarantined for a time. Jimmy would certainly be made aware of all these issues prior to an import permit being granted.
As has already been stated, midges can be carried 200 miles a day by the wind, so how do you prevent that happening ? The risk from wind blown pests is far greater than the import of animals that will have been carefully inspected by a qualified veterinary. People may be xenophobic, but disease is not.
Another possibility to consider is to import Mouflon semen, and AI some Soays.