The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Growing => Fruit => Topic started by: Jullienne on August 12, 2016, 01:02:44 pm
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I came across this article online just before; I must say I was very shocked indeed! Although not a fan of avocado's I was told that they are good for helping to lose weight. I have a feeling this has really put me off them forever.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/12/hispters-handle-unpalatable-truth-avocado-toast?CMP=share_btn_tw (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/12/hispters-handle-unpalatable-truth-avocado-toast?CMP=share_btn_tw)
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They are delicious but you put on weight if you eat a lot of them. Loads of calories but as much nutrients as a steak
But this is certainly true - "The fact of the matter is that the further away from home our food comes, the less chance we have of interrogating its origins and its impact on its native environment and workforce. "
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For me the whole point of growing our own food is so we don't have to import, with all the attendant problems. I see it as a result of the 'me me more more' society that makes people want the 'exclusive' foods and the latest fad to serve up at their dinner parties, or pop in the kids' lunch boxes.
In the final paragraph of the article, British grown food is praised, with good reason. The food we can grow here is wonderfully healthful, uses few road miles and covers all nutritional needs without further damage to the environment. We still have problems with harvesting though. For example kale, which is grown in the Fens (or the Sto Plains according to Terry Pratchett) relies on migrant workers who are low paid and live in temporary accommodation - not nearly as bad a situation as the article reports from S America, but not perfect either. Fortunately technology might be the answer here.
Do I eat avocados? I have done, but I now avoid all imported food, such as French beans from Kenya, when our gardens could be full of them, and apples and lamb from NZ. It's possible to find products which don't use palm oil, the cultivation of which is responsible for massive destruction of the rain forest, and the habitat for many species such as Orang Utans. People all over the world have to earn their livings, and it's up to us in richer societies to help them to find a way to do this without damaging our planet beyond repair. Just banning selected foods would be vastly unfair to those who have invested in growing methods which they thought were fine - once the system is set up, it would mean destitution for the farmers and migrant workers if the rug was pulled out from under their feet. There are so many variables and aspects to take into consideration, that simply not buying a product is extremely simplistic.
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Isn't it the same with every commercially grown popular food? Think of the Amazon and beef production, or soy beans... Or quinoa, another fad food that's turning into a problem.
And whatever you say, kale simply isn't a replacement for avocados... ;) (Although I do grow it in my own garden, and I do eat it - actually more often than I fancy it, but I can't afford to buy avocados anyway!)
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I certainly don't see kale as a replacement for avocados. Kale has always been here, avocados are a passing fad, and the two are not interchangeable in use. Kale is also a bit of a fad food amongst certain groups who don't grow it themselves but see it as some sort of superfood, as they do avocados. I blame the TV chefs :innocent:
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My view is that this is all another manifestation of folk being too grand, too self-centred and bluntly too well off and think that everything is a 'right'.. an attitude promoted in the west by busines and media and hangers-on in the scramble for even more wealth. The third world is another pawn of it's own governments and those businesses that take an ecosystem that works and 'improve' it.
Remember the recent bit about 'who will pick our fruit' if immigration is controlled - talk about too grand to roll up a sleeve and too dependant on cutting costs to maximise profit.
There's vast tracts of land unused Uk that just need a little lateral thinking 'cos there's little justification for importing food and fruit apart from what really should be conisdered luxuries...like your avacados, even bananas unless they're grown a lot closer to home. The so-called global economic crisis led to large amounts of spanish citrus being left to rot - uneconomic to pick - so instead it's shipped in from ay further away. The same nonsense applies to everyone carrying a mobile phone etc - they're there to make someone else money. Life went on when you carried 4 pence in your pocket for a rare emergency call. Unless this pyramid-sale way of life gets curbed it has to fall apart
Rant over
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I read a very interesting book called animal, vegetable, mineral (I think it was called). In this book the writer only lives almost self sufficently, in America her homeland, for about 1 year. She buys products from her local farmer's markets and grows the vast majority herself. She was concerned about air miles, by bringing in exotic foods which were helping to destroy the enviroment and the fact of animal welfare being an issue too. She says that by the end of the year they didn't miss foods non seasonal or exotic and could have carried on, I do believe that they grow most of their own food still. The problem in the earth now is that people want things out of season, which requires importation and huge air miles/sea miles too, therefore polluting the enviroment, or helping to. I agree that as a nation we should be growing a lot of food ourselves and only importing things we can't grow over here. It is built upon convenience, of everyone concerned, but the biggest problem here is sustainability; If they grew these avocado's sustainably then this would not be an issue. The problem is that these countries do rely quite heavily on export for their income and where there is huge demand you can expect this, it's the same with drug growers in the middle east. Where there is demmand there will be more destruction and devastation, the problem is with the demmand. Personally I don't like avocado's, but I do love almonds and other foods which are also causing big problems. I think the answer is do eat them but not as much, therefore decreasing demmand and supply. I did hear in the news not long ago that Britain imports 75% of its food, ludicrous I know, compared with how little % it was during and after the second world war.
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Not getting it here. For those dedicated few that never eat any bananas, pineapples, mango or other exotic fruit, maybe occasional citrus from Europe only and certainly never anything out of season that can be grown in the uk a genuine Well Done! I try my bit, eat Scottish or UK meat and veg where I can, but my husband expects apples and pears on the table most of the year round.
There's no need to fear or criticise the nutrient content of avacado, they are rich sources of fats and vits, unlike most fruit and vegetables.
As for the problems with deforestation, slavery, harm of activists for fair trade, etc, I struggle to believe humanity is worse because of the crop, and if it wasn't about avocados, it would be something else, whether soya, dope or beef cattle. These are BIG problems, and I don't have the answers, but I don't think they can/should be blamed on the fruit being grown, just as easy to criticise any crop. Buy fair trade if you want to feel better.
To some extent organic, locally sourced, few hens for the garden, the good life, etc, have been branded 'fads' I've always wanted to be more self sufficient, and I've always enjoyed eating avacado, does that make either better or OK because I got on bord before publicity on Twitter?
Want an alternative so you can give up? I've found that ripe haws taste and look like tiny avacados - Dunno if they're safe to eat, seem to be ok, but you'd need SO many to make a delicious bowl of guacamole!
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What are you meaning by 'haws', Steph Hen? Haws to me are the fruit of the hawthorn, which are little red berry-like things. Rather woody and acid-tasting, but can be used as an ingredient in wine-making.
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And chutney, sauce and jelly, Sally.
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I eat them when they come ripe rather than once they've dedicated out, they are green and fleshy inside, not woody till later.
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I eat them when they come ripe rather than once they've dedicated out, they are green and fleshy inside, not woody till later.
Well I shall try some! Maybe when I've moved back down south....
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Avocados are great for you and are full of healthy fats, It is even a good starter food for babies moving on to solids.
Once you have brought avocado from the supermarket you put cocktail sticks in the side of the stone and let it rest in a jam jar filled with water.
After some time you will see roots develop and it will start to produce shoots. it will then need a warm spot in the greenhouse/conservatory and additional heat in winter will serve it well.
It will take years to produce flowers and there is no guarantee it will ever fruit. I also believe it needs a male tree and a female tree to reproduce.
In one year I got about 2ft - 2.5ft of growth. but I didn't give it heat over winter so it died off and the new shoot it put out this spring unfortunately died.
avocados are poisonous to most animals: Birds, goats and dogs I know for certain. Not sure about pigs.
Fun Fact: Avocados are only alive today thanks to humans. The prehistoric animals that used to eat them would pass the stones and from there they would grow (that's why it helps to use sandpaper to propagate them yourselves) . When those animals went extinct humans planted them to keep them alive
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My aunt in Cambridge would find loads of germinated avocados in her compost bin - she treated them as weeds. Maybe that's the best place to propagate them.
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My aunt in Cambridge would find loads of germinated avocados in her compost bin - she treated them as weeds. Maybe that's the best place to propagate them.
Yes I read that, as they like a hot humid enviroment. You can grow them in the south of England/cornwall area?
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Yes I read that, as they like a hot humid enviroment. You can grow them in the south of England/cornwall area?
You can grow them In herts. Mine were in a greenhouse that has a pond with circulating water.
They like rainforest conditions. Hot and humid :thumbsup:
If anyone wants to start them. I would recommend trying to germinate indoors in Feb/March as it takes them a while to burst through the shell
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apparently it can also take them 10 years to fruit? Very slow maturing tree
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I love a ripe avocado but don't expect it to grown in Britain, no more than oranges or bananas but, I was so cross whilst looking at organic spuds and courgettes in Tesco to find that one was grown in eygypt and one in the USA!!
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^ yup, and one from "sunshine farms", and the other from "happy valley" or whatever fake farm name they think the public will fall for next >:(.
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Hmmm, I like avocados and absolutely don't expect them to be grown in Britain. This is food for thought and I hope I can source some Fair Trade ones.
I agree with Devonlady that at peak British production time I don't expect courgettes or new pots to be coming from abroad. If you must eat asparagus out of season then you have to expect it to come from a more exotic climate but COURGETTES in August. I know that as a nation we're not self sufficient in the amount of food that we grow but something seems to have gone awry, is there no profit in growing crops to eat in this country?
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The effects of the supermarket giants is enormous both in Britain and overseas. I only know a quick overview, but basically if you are a big producer and don't sell via a supermarket then you will have few outlets. Overseas they have contracts in various countries where they can dictate exactly what is grown and the price paid. Equally, if one line becomes unfashionable so unprofitable then they drop it, and the producers of that line will suffer accordingly. Here, you accept what they pay too, and the same thing happens if a line is dropped. There is massive waste if each fruit and veg doesn't conform to exact size and shape requirements - the failed produce is dumped to rot.
You could spend a lifetime researching all this and not cover the whole problem.
For small producers, it's a whole lot of heavy work for not much reward, if you don't have the big machinery and have to find your own outlets.
We have complained to the big boys about them buying in produce from overseas when it is grown just up the road. The response is nearly always either that local producers can't supply the amounts the supermarkets need, they can't keep up a continuous supply, they already have a contract with an overseas supplier or..........it's what the consumer wants ??? Oh really??
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The effects of the supermarket giants is enormous both in Britain and overseas. I only know a quick overview, but basically if you are a big producer and don't sell via a supermarket then you will have few outlets. Overseas they have contracts in various countries where they can dictate exactly what is grown and the price paid. Equally, if one line becomes unfashionable so unprofitable then they drop it, and the producers of that line will suffer accordingly. Here, you accept what they pay too, and the same thing happens if a line is dropped. There is massive waste if each fruit and veg doesn't conform to exact size and shape requirements - the failed produce is dumped to rot.
You could spend a lifetime researching all this and not cover the whole problem.
For small producers, it's a whole lot of heavy work for not much reward, if you don't have the big machinery and have to find your own outlets.
We have complained to the big boys about them buying in produce from overseas when it is grown just up the road. The response is nearly always either that local producers can't supply the amounts the supermarkets need, they can't keep up a continuous supply, they already have a contract with an overseas supplier or..........it's what the consumer wants ??? Oh really??
Actually that is starting to change a little, I watched this not long ago.
BBC iPlayer - Hugh's War on Waste - Episode 3: The Battle Continues (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07m8qwz/)
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Yes it has now become a recognised phenomenon and is being studied and possible solutions explored. However, what the supermarkets are doing about it is minimal in the great scheme of things.
For most families, the cheaper they can buy their food the better, so the supermarket way is great for them, and they don't want it to change....and who can blame them? The difficulty though is allowing the producers themselves to make a living wage. It is nearly always cheaper to source produce from overseas, which goes a long way towards explaining why so much of our food is not home-produced. Here, we have much higher welfare standards for animals and workers than many countries abroad, but those higher standards come at a price. Only those with a surplus of income can afford to choose the more expensive item above the cheaper, even if ethically and nutritionally the more expensive item wins out.
You can get into the rights and wrongs of shareholders wanting the best returns, but we are bordering on the political here, which is verboten on TAS.
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It is too, too easy to shop in supermarkets, at one time I wouldn't have dreamed of using them but now I'm as guilty as any!
Friends of ours have a beautiful market garden and, this year after being ill and unable (or unwilling!) to grow my own have relied on them for veg.
They sold e.g. a good sized bundle of French or runner beans, Six lovely courgettes, a kilo of new potatoes etc for a pound a go (all grown without pesticides, herbicides or artificial fertilizers, in fact grown with love!) and not until they dropped their prices to 50p a go did folk flock for them. How mean is that!!
Sorry to shout, but GOOD FOOD SHOULD NOT BE CHEAP!!!!
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Yes, good food should not be cheap - but there are too many people in my situation (and not just families - it always annoys me to hear it all being brought back to families, singletons like me are just as affected!), who are on a close-to-zero budget and not willing to let benefits agencies drive them to suicide... If I didn't buy the cheapest stuff at the supermarket, my choice would not be between ethical and non-ethical food, it would be between food or not eating. Fortunately, my council home comes with a smallish garden, so I can grow at least some of my fruit and veg myself.
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I disagree. Good food should be cheap. It's should be a basic right to a healthy belly-full. It's exotic, fancy and imported that ought to reflect it's true cost.
And by good food I mean simple staple fruit and veg. Storage and preservation aren't the issues of centuries past so UK grown stuff can be kept for out of season.
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I too am on a low income but I try to buy at least some of my fruit and veg from my local shop. The owner goes to market three days a week so it is fairly fresh and they save all the over-ripe and damaged stock for my goats.
I do grow as much as I can though.
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I love the way the conversation on this thread has turned, thankyou for all your input it has been a truly fascinating discussion :)
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I know Avocado's are poisonous to chickens, but who could afford to buy them anyway?
On the subject of good food and the price, we were surprised how expensive supermarket prices for veg were here in the Southwest of France, perhaps double the prices in England. The reason is that all the Supermarkets source most locally from small producers, presumably because of the delivery distances otherwise. Vegetables do taste noticeable better though, just like home grown. Almost everyone who can has a 'potager' (vegetable garden) and spends a large amount of time collecting rainwater for it, because tap water is expensive -50% more than England. But you can save a lot of money. The weekly markets are full of small producers selling their crops and surprisingly they cost even more than the Supermarkets, but people here are prepared to pay extra to support their farming neighbours.