The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: stufe35 on July 18, 2016, 01:58:50 pm
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Popped home for lunch today to find 2 dogs massacring our hens.
I don't know whos dogs they are but im suspecting it wont take me long to find out.
One of the dogs has been caught so I now know where it is.
Any ideas on the best way to handle this when I find the owners to make sure I get the money for my hens ?
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Involve the police, the dogs need to go on record and the owner be approached formally to ensure something is done. Otherwise you may find you get a few quid to replace the hens and it happens again because they think that is all they had to do. That's my personal view anyway. Partly because if I approached the dog owner they would likely be defensive if not aggressive and I wouldn't need that on top of losing the hens in the first place. And partly because not knowing who they are at first is your best protection against bad feeling if they then ask why you didn't go to them instead of making an official complaint. The dog that is 'in custody' as it were, would be taken in and the owners found/informed, then it's nothing to do with you, it's between the owner and the law as it should be (in my opinion).
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Agree with what Ellied said!
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Yup. The dog should be microchipped and traceable.
A caring owner should be concerned that their dog is missing and be looking for it.
Even if the police involvement doesn't get you more than the price of your birds in compensation, it leaves a paper trail and an impression on the mind of the dog owner.
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Agree with the above, police !
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Yes definately police! I am sorry to hear about this though and I hope that you get this sorted soon! :hug:
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That is not good to hear. I agree, involve the police, dog owners need to u derstand the gravity of letting their animals destroy other people's animals/ livelihood.
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Sorry to hear about your chickens but totally agree with the others. Let the police do the hard work
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So just checked the councils website.
They don't collect dogs out of hours,..... but I can take it to their reception centre.
They remind me if I have detained the dog I am now legally responsible for it. (perhaps we should have just left them to kill the sheep in the next field too ...or would that be negligent ? ) ( I haven't but I know who has)
They point out if its the dogs first time they wont charge the owner.
So my chickens have all been killed...ive caught the dog.....
Now me the innocent party has to either .
.have a day of work while the dog warden comes...
or take the dog in myself....exactly how ive no idea.
Meanwhile the irreisponsible owner who allowed their dogs to escape...just waits for a phone call and rocks up to collect them free of charge.
I have to explain to my kids about the hens, clear up and dispose of the remains..have no eggs..take more time to go and buy more hens...pay for said hens.
Dog owner and lawbreaker 1....innocent party 0
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its a pity it wasn't shot on sight. You could request for the dog to be PTS detailing about the amount of damage done and showing evidence of the havoc they have caused. The authorities are obliged to listen to you, but it depends whether they will act or not on this. Do you want to press charges?
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Really all I want is reimburising for the cost of my hens...and the owners to be more careful to ensure their dogs don't get free again. (im guessing they've escaped from a garden.
I don't really see a mechanism to get my money...I rely on the good will of the dog owner.
If they are none forth coming with their money then I want them to suffer as much inconvenience and cost as possible so they think twice in future.
My mates a lorry driver ..I could have it dropped at a dog warden centre somewhere a couple of hundred miles away !
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Really all I want is reimburising for the cost of my hens...and the owners to be more careful to ensure their dogs don't get free again. (im guessing they've escaped from a garden.
I don't really see a mechanism to get my money...I rely on the good will of the dog owner.
If they are none forth coming with their money then I want them to suffer as much inconvenience and cost as possible so they think twice in future.
My mates a lorry driver ..I could have it dropped at a dog warden centre somewhere a couple of hundred miles away !
I understand that you're angry and upset, but that would not be a good idea, you would only make really bitter enemies with the owners and it may happen again because of it. The best thing to do would be to ask the authorities or the police what it is you can do and how to get some compensation for the animals lost, or even take the matter to your solicitor and ask his advice. Personally I think laws for dog owners letting their dogs roam like that should be stricter and very severe if damage is caused through their own negligence. I don't think that it would make a difference to a really bad dog owner if you caused them some big inconvenience, they would probably just exact their revenge. If you go through a solicitor you could send them an invoice, keeping a copy for yourself, and a letter explaining what damage the dogs have not only done to your flock, but also that they could pose a risk to you to or your family. Don't write it nastily though make sure its written in a calm controlled manner, so it doesn't appear sarcastic or horrible in any way, just the blunt facts and that you are indeed devestated.
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I realise the only way to force compensation is legal action...but the costs of solicitors compared to the hens is a joke.
How do I prove how many hens there were...how do I prove it was these two dogs....I will soon end up a massive bill and no recompence.
I once has a strimmer stolen from my garage...it was found by the police in a known criminals shed...he got off because the police could place him at the scene of the crime.
The law is for rich people and criminals...not us normal hardworking tax payers.
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I realise the only way to force compensation is legal action...but the costs of solicitors compared to the hens is a joke.
How do I prove how many hens there were...how do I prove it was these to dogs....I will soon end up a massive bill and no recompence.
I once has a strimmer stolen from my garage...it was found by the police in a known criminals shed...he got off because the police could place him at the scene of the crime.
The law is for rich people and criminals...not us normal hardworking tax payers.
Agree there. Do your hens free range at all? I was looking at this not long ago which may help, it would need moving around a bit though but would certainly give em the shock of their lives http://www.electricfencing.co.uk/poultry_01.asp (http://www.electricfencing.co.uk/poultry_01.asp) I really hope something can be done about this soon! So sorry you have had to go through all this :hug:
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Thanks for your thoughts WBF...im not in a bad state...just miffed that im going to have to source £70 worth of new hens...and im at the mercy of a dog owners 'kindness' as to whether I get it back.
I will let you all know how I get on..i have now formualeted a plan which does involve the police...thanks all for your input.
PS have been toying with the electric fence thing as we do suffer occasional fox attacks and ultimately wish to increase our numbers above ten !
cheers
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It might be worth mentioning the attack to the owner of the sheep you mentioned. Out-of-control dogs are just as likely to attack sheep as hens.
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miffed that im going to have to source £70 worth of new hens...and im at the mercy of a dog owners 'kindness' as to whether I get it back.
cheers
As you all know I am a dog owner, breeder, trialer, exhibitor , breeder and judge. The following advice is for the future as I know you haven't done these things this time, and I hope you never have to use them. I would be horrified if my dogs had carried out this attack, but I know that most dogs are capable of it.
In every circumstance such as this, I recommend advising the police immediately - by telephone on 101, then follow up with a written report on exactly what happened. You are right that no-one can say how many birds you had or lost so you should also have taken photographs, and included these with the report. You have caught the dog - it is regarded as a stray, so it is the law that this must be reported to the local dog warden - it isn't law that you have to hand it over to them - it is up to them what happens to the dog. They may have kennels but in some circumstances they ask the finder if they can keep it for a short time.
I'm sorry for your loss, I know the feeling, but my losses were by the teeth of urban foxes fed and encouraged by stupid neighbours.
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Here, if a dog is taken to the kennels the council charge £120 to release it plus kennelling charges. (Good job they don't take in pigs!!)
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Now me the innocent party has to either .
.have a day of work while the dog warden comes...
or take the dog in myself....exactly how ive no idea.
No need. The police should collect the dog when they come to take your report.
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Do you know who the owners are yet?
You could put the word out that you have found a dog on your property and see if they turn up. Then you can explain what happened and ask them for the compensation.
I am not making excuses but there could be a reason the dogs were loose that isn't just that the owners couldn't be bothered. They may also be mortified to find they have killed your chickens and be more than happy to compensate you.
They don't necessarily have to be nasty dogs to become over excited about the chickens nor does it mean that they are child attackers either.
It does seem a nightmare getting action but I hope you get it sorted out satisfactorily.
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Well all my local enquiries as to who owned the dogs fell blank so I decided to crack on and phone the police I told them about the chicken attack and they are sending an officer round to follow that up. (later that night I had loads of calls from messages I had left telling me who the dogs belonged to)
They immediately linked it with a missing dog report in our village and asked if they could give the owner our telephone details to which I said yes.
5 mins later the owner called who I recognised as being one of out near neighbours who I know through drinking with her husband in the pub and having occasionally took away their horse muck for them. (by near I mean approximately half a mile away) . She asked if it was ok to come and collect and I said yes.
On arrival she was all smiling and laughing...clearly the police had not told her what her dog had done. This was not good as my other half saw red and launched into her.
She was apologetic and has offered to pay for the hens. When I pointed out her dog should have a collar on it she replied collars rub its neck and its her pet. I wasn't 100% sure but have checked this morning...her dog is legally bound to have a collar on so it is not 'her' choice'. She shall be getting reminded.
She dismissed that they would have started chasing the sheep out of hand.....I am not convinced.
Anyway I suspect next time I see her husband in the pub ill get the some cash out of him, he is an ok sort of bloke.
Still have the job of getting rid of the carcasses and sourcing some new ones...our normal supplier only has then in a couple of times a year...so that is an issue not easily solved.
Don't know what the police will do exactly they are coming later this week.
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sorry to hear this, and I hope they do cough up the cash.
I second the electric fencing idea - we have electric fencing round our hen pens, we use a solar powered unit which works really well. So far we haven't lost any hens to foxes - we know they are around as the dogs keep rolling in fox poo! And it keeps our dogs away - they like a bit of chicken - they won't go within 6 feet of the pens.
Win win all round :)
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I'm sorry to hear about your hens, not only is it a financial loss for you but you get quite fond of them. My dogs never wear collars in the house or garden because of an incident in my childhood when one my Dad's dogs got her paw caught in her sister's collar whilst playing resulting in panic and a dreadful fight!
I am almost paranoid about my dogs getting out but it has happened a couple of times, a moment's inattention, someone who doesn't have dogs leaving a door open.
I do hope you are paid for your hens but continue to be friends with your neighbours, you never know when you may need them!
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Sorry-this is still a bit raw.
The problem now is that having found our place half a mile across the fields...where will these dogs head the next time there is a moments inattention...and the owners arrogant attitude to collar wearing makes me feel this is only a matter of time ?
Being paid for the hens will help...but if I murdered your dogs tonight....would paying for new ones tomorrow make it all ok ?
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I went through much the same, many years ago, coming home to find 2 hens dead, 2 so injured and traumatised we had to have them pts, and just one alive - she'd been laying when the attack occurred, so the dog hadn't spotted her.
We'd thought fox at first, but a neighbour had seen a Jack Russell loose... The owner apologised, saying his dog had been bored as the weather had meant they hadn't been out working. Well you should have taken it for a walk, then! We thought, but didn't say. The owner offered to pay for the hens but didn't, in our view, seem to think it could never happen again, so we made Chicken Knox, 6' fencing, dug into the ground and with three strands of electric, and our previously completely fre range chickens got barred up when we went out. It kept them safe. You do need to check the charge every day, of course. Use a blade of grass to test the wire - it's a poor conductor, so you get a much reduced belt through it.
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Oh, and I forget to say, we also had a problem sourcing new hens because of the time of year. We made the mistake of going to a big producer, just to get some pals for Lacey - and it was a mistake. Ended up having to slaughter those, who never made it out of quarantine - more grief for us. So Lacey became very tame, which was lovely, and palled up with the sheep for company when we weren't outside, until one of the local small producers had some lovely healthy pullets we could buy.
So, in short - :hug:, it's a horrible thing to go through; build a secure pen; don't be in a rush to get replacements, it's more important to get healthy ones than to get some quickly.
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She dismissed that they would have started chasing the sheep out of hand.....I am not convinced.
They always say that until there are dead sheep and/or their dog has been shot.
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Well all my local enquiries as to who owned the dogs fell blank so I decided to crack on and phone the police I told them about the chicken attack and they are sending an officer round to follow that up. (later that night I had loads of calls from messages I had left telling me who the dogs belonged to)
They immediately linked it with a missing dog report in our village and asked if they could give the owner our telephone details to which I said yes.
5 mins later the owner called who I recognised as being one of out near neighbours who I know through drinking with her husband in the pub and having occasionally took away their horse muck for them. (by near I mean approximately half a mile away) . She asked if it was ok to come and collect and I said yes.
On arrival she was all smiling and laughing...clearly the police had not told her what her dog had done. This was not good as my other half saw red and launched into her.
She was apologetic and has offered to pay for the hens. When I pointed out her dog should have a collar on it she replied collars rub its neck and its her pet. I wasn't 100% sure but have checked this morning...her dog is legally bound to have a collar on so it is not 'her' choice'. She shall be getting reminded.
She dismissed that they would have started chasing the sheep out of hand.....I am not convinced.
Anyway I suspect next time I see her husband in the pub ill get the some cash out of him, he is an ok sort of bloke.
Still have the job of getting rid of the carcasses and sourcing some new ones...our normal supplier only has then in a couple of times a year...so that is an issue not easily solved.
Don't know what the police will do exactly they are coming later this week.
They will probably have a severe chat with the couple or give them a warning.
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isn't she liable for a fine if the dogs are caught with no collar and ID?
I am sorry, I lost my best rare breed cock and a very nice hen last year to an errant cocker and his clueless city dwelling, dog walking owners who had him off lead on the road and no control. Dog jumped my stock fence and down into my chicken pen and killed them right in front of me. They offered to pay but when I detailed the fact they were the result of several years breeding, that I had travelled to get stock from all over the UK, had selected and culled stock, provided housing, hours put in etc and that their paltry offer of £15 a bird just didnt cut it they got defensive. I hope they took themselves through a local field of cows and calfs tbh. They seemed to equate it to a fox attack which of course, it isn't.
Its bloody annoying when people don't take it seriously enough. I would be terrified for my dogs if I had an out of control one with a prey drive high enough to kill poultry-its a very short step to other stock and other pets. I wouldn't have one though and if I did, it would be contained/lead.
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Sorry-this is still a bit raw.
The problem now is that having found our place half a mile across the fields...where will these dogs head the next time there is a moments inattention...and the owners arrogant attitude to collar wearing makes me feel this is only a matter of time ?
Being paid for the hens will help...but if I murdered your dogs tonight....would paying for new ones tomorrow make it all ok ?
Just trying to see both sides, dear. No need to be harsh!
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I'm failing to understand where in all this it is me that is being harsh.
Someone breaks the law by allowing their dogs to be out of control...they kill my chickens.
They further break the law by having no collar on their dog...and try to justify it.
I however have looked after their dog to prevent it causing further harm, found out who the owner was, allowed them to come and collect the dog.
Where in all this have I been harsh ?
They have offered to recommence for the hens and that helps...but what hits you is that doesn't really cut it, I have tried to demonstrate why in what I have said.
What I really want is for them to become responsible dog owners and not let them escape again because now they will no doubt be straight back to worry my livestock.
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I'm failing to understand where in all this it is me that is being harsh.
Someone breaks the law by allowing their dogs to be out of control...they kill my chickens.
They further break the law by having no collar on their dog...and try to justify it.
I however have looked after their dog to prevent it causing further harm, found out who the owner was, allowed them to come and collect the dog.
Where in all this have I been harsh ?
They have offered to recommence for the hens and that helps...but what hits you is that doesn't really cut it, I have tried to demonstrate why in what I have said.
What I really want is for them to become responsible dog owners and not let them escape again because now they will no doubt be straight back to worry my livestock.
Totally agree with you, Stufe35, and you know my credentials regarding dogs.
However, LF, it is definitely going too far to say it's a short step from killing a chicken to other animals and people. Dogs are prey animals - if it runs or flutters it gets chased (unless trained otherwise or a different instinct - mine point for instance, can hold point for up to 45 minutes on occasion, flush and retrieve on command). A fox would only attack a human or large animal if desperate and more than likely in defence. Mostly it's the same with a dog, although I admit there are sheep chasers, but they aren't actually that frequent. Personally however, I wouldn't feel 100% confident of my youngster with sheep so she doesn't get any opportunity.
I think much more education is required for dog owners walking dogs in the countryside.
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I didn't say people dojango, I appreciate a dog having a high prey drive is not the same as being a danger to people. but I do feel a dog that can't control itself around poultry could be a danger to other pets, cats included as well as other stock and I wasn't the only person to mention this. My comment as to cows and calves was meant in that I rather hoped a cow might serve them a lesson in having their animal chased!
I've had my horses chased by wayward dogs a number of times in the past and nothing gets me quite so angry. But it doesn't matter if its a chicken, a horse or a sheep if its someone else's. And I have dogs of various breeds and they were all stock proof as will the next ones be.
There's been a massive increase in sheep worrying in this area in the last year.
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Am a bit late to this thread so not sure if my advice will be of help. I had a dog attac k my in lamb ewes earlier this year. After reporting it to the police (and you have to do this) i had to point out to them that to allow a dog to be 'at large' whether its got out of the house, run off on a walk or slipped its collar, is a criminal offence and I told them that i wanted the owner charged. The short story is that I agreed that if he paid for the damage then i might consider him to sign a contract that binds him to not allow any of his dogs to be at large in the future (no time limit). This was done. Although it will never happen with this dog again (it was shot) this contract will lie on file.
However, i was shocked to find out that the CPS will rarely take anyone to court if it is a first offence, whether it be the owner of a dog that attacks livestock, a shoplifter, someone who assaults his wife or children or mugs an old lady.
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I have been at the other end of this - we decided to let our fields out to a local friendly farmer for a season as they were short of grass.
We came home from a shopping trip (only away for about an hour and a half) to find our very well maintained fencing torn down, our dogs cowering in their sturdy metal runs (thank goodness it was weld-mesh), huge hoof holes all over our neat front lawn, and the beautiful shrubs being happily munched by a herd of Blondie/Angus heifers. We didn't know why they had rushed the fence, but we can only guess it was the sound of the tornado that flew over while we were in Tesco. ::)
What could we do? - wasn't Liz and John's fault. We all mucked in and got the beasts back in, fixed the fence, consoled and walked the dogs, then sat down to a bottle of lovely French wine.
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Well I'm sure I'll upset more than a few people here but the dog attack has taught you a lesson Stufe35. It is your moral duty to give your livestock the best welfare and leaving them in open ground to dog or fox attack isn't doing the job. I realise the cost of a secure enclosure far exceeds the value of the hens, but that isn't an equation I would be using. So you intend to replace the hens and leave them in the same position- fear of imminent attack and painful death? I think best not replace them on welfare grounds, because the dogs or any foxes will be there for a meal. Build a proper enclosure first.
So what if the dog didn't have a collar, foxes don't either!
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So what if the dog didn't have a collar, foxes don't either!
the OP's stock (and mine) were not killed by a fox, they were killed by an animal that was someone else's responsibility. Your argument doesn't make sense in this context as it shouldn't have happened and wuldnt have, had the owners been doing their job.
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I hear what you say Chris. We are very lucky and have learned over the years that we are only bothered by foxes during the cub season when foxes stray a bit further to find food. We have a secure enclosure in which they stay during those months.....although for the first time in seven years a fox managed to get in last year....suitable additional measures have now been added !
The rest of the year we let them out in day light hours , fasten them up at dusk without issue....normally !
We take a calculated risk with foxes and it works. In return the hens get to roam and have a great time.
I have to disagree with your comment about collars. It is a legal requirement in this country for dogs not kept on their own private land to have a collar and ID on. Not so a fox.
If this dog had a collar I would never have needed to call the police as I have known the owner for over ten years...and he is a decent bloke...I didn't realise he had dogs otherwise I would have called him...his number is in my mobile !
I have really enjoyed sharing my experience on this thread...from the initial upset and rage I have calmed down I have learned over the years that shouting swearing and getting angry doesn't get you anywhere. Considered thought and appropriate response is much better.
Thank you everyone for your input. Particularly those that have put very objective views despite their alliances and those that have sent pms. It has helped me rationalise what has happened.
I have reflected on life in the countryside. In the past our dog has escaped...usually only when lured by a stray I might add. Our cattle and sheep have escaped too despite my continuous monitoring of fencing. Animals are alive and break things, people don't fasten catches properly...you can't watch everything all of the time . This isn't gross negligence....its life. My neighbours (various)too have rung us to say our animals have escaped, they have helped us recover them.
My biggest annoyance is that now these dogs know where we are they will most likely be back. So the remainder of our hens are deprived of their free roaming and rich pickings through lush green grass and are confined to their pen, unless we are around.
This is life in the country side..not perfect ..but a damn sight better than the city !
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Stufe35 is entirely at fault here Scarlet.Dragon. Foxes attack frequently during the day now due to urban releases and cross-breeding, so perhaps your perception is over 15 years out of date. Free range is a minefield for chickens. Our neighbours hens spend the whole day running from cover to cover in an unfenced area, whereas ours have a secure enclosure (and they know it) of ample size and are completely happy- still defined as best standard free range as they have 15m2 each.
In France dog attacks are common. Stray hunting dogs kill so many chickens that keepers have given up rather than face the costs of building an enclosure. I even heard of a keeper whose neighbour had workmen in. One let his dog out of the van which promptly killed all their chickens.
You cannot have chickens in an unsecured environment anymore unless you deliberately sacrifice their welfare for financial considerations.
Just read your post Stufe35. Perhaps you can increase the pen size and keep them in. The rich feed pickings are very seasonal and require a good eye to keep their protein balance right for laying. Our neighbours hens are now supplemented with our layers pellets! Believe me, life in the countryside here is far far more hazardous than England as foxes hunt in co-ordinated packs and the hunting dogs are so powerful they can tear through chicken wire. Perhaps if we had known how bad it was we wouldn't be here?
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I have followed this post with interest having both stock and dogs (some of whom are a real challenge!). I think the OP has taken us through his journey with this event quite honestly, sharing his anger which we all would feel. chrismahon I think you are going a bit too far in stating that Stufe25 is entirely at fault. We have sheep in fields enclosed by stone walls. Nearly all dogs are capable of scaling a dry stone wall. So next time I find a sheep mauled or worse is it my fault? Should I have tennis court style fencing around my whole farm? Or should dog owners be responsible for their dogs? And what about the footpaths which cross my land - should dog walkers their dogs on lead or is it my fault if they run amok and kill my lambs?
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Chris , fortunately here in England things aren't so bad...our method of hen keeping worked fine for my dad, and worked fine for his dad....almost 50 years that I'm aware of.
We don't get urban foxes and have an active hunt in the area which controls the numbers...although I'm not sure how because of course they don't catch foxes.. They just take their horses for a little trot across the fields and exercise the hounds :roflanim:
We don't normally get dogs on the loose...let's hope we don't again. In the meantime i am considering how things could be re organised to get an electric fence to work.
The farmers round here have pheasant pens in the woods....they put a single strand of electric fence right around at about 1foot off the ground . They say this allows the pheasants to get under the fence, but foxes get a nasty zap and leg it. Anyone any experience of doing this ?
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I have stock fencing with electric on top. YET I still get neighbours dogs chasing my animals. I made it quite plain that enough was enough and I would sue if anything more happened. MY chickens free range around our house and the top paddock. In over 20 years I have had only one fox attack during the day and that was a poor fox that must have been hand reared then dumped. It had no fear of people or my German shepherds and was so thin. The local farmer shot it when it tried to get his farm cats. I have sheep and pigs as well as the ponies in paddocks. We did not buy our house and land to stand by and watch other peoples dogs roam free to kill.I have taken every care to try and keep my lot safe. It is up to the dog owner to make sure their pet does not roam free and out of their control. The owner is at fault !
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The farmers round here have pheasant pens in the woods....they put a single strand of electric fence right around at about 1foot off the ground . They say this allows the pheasants to get under the fence, but foxes get a nasty zap and leg it. Anyone any experience of doing this ?
yes, I used to do this around my pens where I used to live-lots of foxes, no fox attacks but couldn't tell you if it was solely due to that. I ran mine off small energisers and they packed a bit of a kick on a single strand.
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It's beyond me how anyone can say that stufe35 is entirely at fault. His hens were on his land. The law states that dogs should be kept under control. He didn't invite the dogs in to play with his hens, the dogs were out of control. A fellow goatkeeper near me had two goats killed by a pair of large dogs. Was she at fault for not keeping her goats in? Of course not. The owner of the dogs was at fault for not making sure they didn't get out. And yes, I know that accidents happen but you can't arrange your whole life trying to prevent an accident unless you want to surround your entire property with eight foot high walls.
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Maybe some boards around your land stating that any dog found worrying livestock WILL (not may) be shot! And, it's not always city types and their pampered dogs that cause trouble, my flock of tiny Ouessants were killed by a neighbours working collies. A door left unlatched, bored dogs and that was that. The owner was as gutted as I was but I held nothing against him and we remain good friends and neighbours.
As to foxes, I had, at huge expense an enclosure made which is half the size (or more) as a football pitch, clad in deer netting, eight foot high and hung about with the hated barbed wire. It didn't work and all due to released orphan and urban foxes!! You know who they are, they come up to you and say "got any dog food". They scaled netting and barbed wire frequently in daytime and killed everything there. I also don't hold a grudge against the poor foxes who were doing as we would in desperation, but the kind, misguided actions of the "cuddly" fox lovers.
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The thing is [member=23925]chrismahon[/member] hens can free range in this country ( always with risk entailed) but it doesn't excuse the fact of the owners of the stray dogs. [member=27229]stufe35[/member] Is not at fault here, as he does know the risks, the owners are at fault due to their own negligence. You cannot blame someone for letting their chickens free-range, I do agree that electric fencing would be better surrounding them to protect against all that but it is everyones own personal choice, personally I don't have electric fencing and never had fox problems. However it would be better if non diligent owners were not allowed to keep dogs and let them loose in the country or not keep them in when not playing with them then these things would not happen. The owners have no excuse, you cannot blame somebody for letting their livestock free range on their own land, this goes for sheep too, you cannot blame the owners of the animals on their own land when your dog is the culprit. I hope that all comes well in the end [member=27229]stufe35[/member]
All the best
WBF
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So I've read the comments and won't change my stance. If you keep chickens they should be protected from all comers- foxes or dogs (with no collars). Anything less is reckless and defies normal stands of welfare.
As said, you can't sacrifice hens welfare against the cost of proper fencing- it is immoral.
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I can't agree with you, IMHO there is nothing wrong with letting your animals roam on your OWN land. many,many farms, smallholders leave they're chickens peck and forage to they're hearts content, with access and safety of enclosure at night. I also think you are being rather harsh.
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Chris, you don't need to change your stance...you are free to have your own stance for your own hens.
In my case It's my land , my hens , I understand the local risks and have my own experience from which I form my own stance.
Dogs with no collars are of course not a matter of stance..there are laws which cover this.....their owners are acting illegally if the dogs are not on their own land.
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I can see,( I think), Chris's viewpoint and have been pondering ways of keeping poultry both safe and happy. I shall have my half a footy field covered with a roof of keeper's netting and if that doesn't work, I shall give up. As it is I must have the most expensive eggs in Britain, unless anyone else can...................................................
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Devonlady , how about trying the single strand of electric fencing about one ft high and one foot away right around the outside of your pen ?
If you have a problem with foxes you have to take suitable action. In our case we have found it only to be cubbing season, during those months our hens stay pen bound unless we are outside working.
Chris has described what he has found he needs to do in France in his locality .
It should not be impossible to erect a fox proof fence....are you sure they went over it ?
My pen has been successful for many years, but last year one squeezed through the smallest gap imaginable. The fence is about 6ft -7ft high...they have never got over it.
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My pen has been successful for many years, but last year one squeezed through the tamales the gap imaginable.
I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant to write. I wish people using predictive text would re-read what their device has actually written before posting!
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Sally...duly corrected ! Not predictive text in this case just a typo...trouble with reading what you've just typed is you tend to read what you think you've written rather than what you have written :gloomy:
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Sally...duly corrected ! Not predictive text in this case just a typo...trouble with reading what you've just typed is you tend to read what you think you've written rather than what you have written :gloomy:
Lol. And thanks :thumbsup:
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Stufe, no electricity on my land and have tried all sorts of fencing and energisers (my niece works for Hotline) but I found the batteries didn't last long enough. I tried flexinet with a battery and energiser but fox was jumping over the net, killing everything and jumping out again.
And, yes, I've seen them climbing over, the poor beggars, stick thin and desperate! What ARE these silly people thinking!!!!!
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Chicken Knox, which seemed to work, was 6' high chain link fence, dug into the ground for 9"-1'. Three strands of electric, one as low to the ground as you can get away with without the grass keep shorting it out, one about 9" above that, and the third near the very top, to stop 'em climbing over.
If you keep the grass short so it doesn't short the current, a charged battery should last a good long while.