The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Mcdoof on July 08, 2016, 12:05:20 am
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Hi, need help with a sick Pygmy goat, 6 months old and suffering with enterotoxemia.
His mother died shortly after birth and I believe he was over fed on lamb pellets. We have had him for two weeks, he arrived with scouring which quickly developed into severe scouring, weight loss, lethargy and stumbling frequently. His appetite is not great. He has been wormed. We have treated him with an anti biotic for scouring, fired up his rumin with a natural probiotic powder and keeping him hydrated with life aid oral solution. Managed to stop the scouring and he is eating grass and hay only and he is passing compacted droppings (dog like) Problem now he is in pain/straining while passing droppings, he falls over very easily and remains very weak and lifeless. Due to the feed errors early on we are convinced this is enterotoxemia. Can I treat with Lambivac or is this just a vaccination? In the US they sell antitoxins for enterotoxemia however, nothing found in the UK, any advise out there please.
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I would take him to your vet. It may not be enteroxamia and if it is they would have appropriate treatment. Keep on with supportive therapy lifeaid probiotics like yogurt/ or pro rumen and keep him inside and warm. . Take a poo sample to your vet as well. There could be underlying things like coccidiosis even fluke or something else .
Lambivac is a vaccination to prevent enerotoxemia not for treatment. Good luck hope he pulls through.
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As above, there are no antitoxins for clostridial disease, giving lambivac at this time would only make it harder for his already struggling immune system.
However, it sounds unlikely to be enterotoxaemia as the clostridial toxins would tend to cause much more rapid and severe signs. As he has been unwell for two weeks, but is still alive, I think you need to get your vet to see him.
My gut feeling as a vet from what you describe (but would be much more sensible to get a vet to do an examination and listen to the gut, feel the goats abdomen, take its temperature and often samples) is it may be floppy kid syndrome or another gut condition, possibly coccidiosis, which also cause diarrhoea and unwellness.
Your vet will be able to narrow down the problem and give medications to make him more comfortable passing faeces and stimulate the appetite.
The other absolutely vital thing is to make sure he is passing urine, as male sheep or goats that have been fed concentrates are at risk of bladder stones which can cause blockage and straining to urinate with small amounts or no urine produced. This is a life threatening emergency that will most frequently need surgery to save a life.
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Vet ASAP. Good luck :fc:
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Poor chap and poor you. Definitely one for the vet ASAP.
Sounds similar to our experience in our early days which was cocci and our vet did not diagnose - was a terrible experience so I can empathise
Good luck - let us know how you get on :fc:
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Has he been having food meant for nannies?
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Thank you for the replies,,,, no disrespect to the vets on this forum and I certainly don't wish to question their wonderful skills however, my local vet uses google to diagnose my goat problems as there is a lack of knowledge and licensed treatments for goats? Lost a goat to an unrelated illness earlier in the year which we lated discovered was mis diagnosed at our local vets, it is clearly not an easy science so I am hoping to find breeders/owners with experience. My vet also told me that there are no anti toxin products for enterotoxemia however, if you look at the website buyvetmedicar.com they sell a product called CD antitoxin for the treatment and prevention of clostridium Perfringens C & D (enterotoxemia) Appreciate this is only available in the US and probably not yet marketed in the UK, however, it does exist and reading US goat forums it would appear to be extremely effective. Many thanks for the replies, guess I'll press on for another 24 hrs as he is eating and weeing and if no improvement I will reluctantly visit the Vet .
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Ok so it's a ballbusting antitoxin as opposed to a prevention vaccination.
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If he had enterotoxaemia he would be dead by now. Kills usually whtin 24 hours.
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If he had enterotoxaemia he would be dead by now. Kills usually whtin 24 hours.
Not that simple it seems, acute and peracute will cause rapid death however, and this is a quote from the US veterinary site,
The Subacute disease is more apt to occur in older kids and adults. They may be ill for several days or weeks and show anorexia (refusal to eat) and intermittent severe diarrhea occasionally with epithelial shreds in the feces. They will occasionally eat and with time and appropriate treatment, they will usually recover.
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Thank you for the replies,,,, no disrespect to the vets on this forum and I certainly don't wish to question their wonderful skills however, my local vet uses google to diagnose my goat problems as there is a lack of knowledge and licensed treatments for goats? Lost a goat to an unrelated illness earlier in the year which we lated discovered was mis diagnosed at our local vets, it is clearly not an easy science so I am hoping to find breeders/owners with experience. My vet also told me that there are no anti toxin products for enterotoxemia however, if you look at the website buyvetmedicar.com they sell a product called CD antitoxin for the treatment and prevention of clostridium Perfringens C & D (enterotoxemia) Appreciate this is only available in the US and probably not yet marketed in the UK, however, it does exist and reading US goat forums it would appear to be extremely effective. Many thanks for the replies, guess I'll press on for another 24 hrs as he is eating and weeing and if no improvement I will reluctantly visit the Vet .
On here you are lucky to get vets who are smallholders. You also get experienced smallholders who are not vets. Out there you get small animal vets and farm vets. You need one who is farm vet and if you are reluctant to visit your vet then get another.
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Oh dear, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, most sorry to have offended you
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I am not personally offended but you have asked advice and received sound advice from experienced vets and goat keepers, which you have countered with quotes from the internet. You have a duty to do the best by your animal and to me that means using a vet who knows about goats or can point you in the direction of one. At the moment you seem to be saying that your vet and yourself have diagnosed the problem via google and I don't think that is satisfactory. The advice from here is a proper examination of the wee chap but you said you are reluctant to visit the vet, which is not a satisfactory situation because you should have confidence in them.
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Of course I am reluctant to visit the vet, I am on here to see if I can obtain information from experienced goat owners/breeders, it makes sense to me before I hand over to a vet. The vets on this forum and my own vet have stated that 'there is no treatment for endotoxemia. That is proven not to be true hence my reluctance to take the final resort and seek veterinary advice. Shall we just leave it there as we are on diverging paths.
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Good luck Mcdoof... I hope your wee chap gets the right result once you've finished your research. I too tend to do a lot of research, particularly when it's something unusual that the vets may not be fully up to speed with or that someone, somewhere may be trialling a new treatment that just may help. NO ONE, should criticise you for that regardless of whether or not it is what they would do in the same circumstances.
Perhaps if you shared your location, others could recommend a goat vet in that area who may be sufficiently specialist to help you on this one?
Everyone hopes the wee chap gets better. No-one has criticised anyone for researching, googling or asking questions. Nearly everyone who has replied to this post, experienced vet and experienced goat keepers has said "vet" and the point of the post originally was to ask experienced goat keeps and breeders their opinion.
Nothing wrong with making suggestions to the vet based on others opinions or ideas you might have if you are not getting to the bottom of what is wrong but no-one should be reluctant to go to their vet.
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We lost a page of posts as this topic was somehow deleted.
Hellybee if still following do you have the ref to Vitamin B that was deleted. Goat is booked in at the vets but cannot get an earlier appointment than Thursday pm. In the Derbyshire Peak District so if anyone can rec a vet with goat knowledge it would be much appreciated
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I ll PM you
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How is your wee chap getting on?
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Sadly didn't survive, vet suspected polioencephalomalacia, goat polio due to thiamine deficiency. Tried Vitamin B 1 injections but his scouring returned and he just could not take in any nutrients.
The breeder that supplied him has stopped selling, not assertained the reason as yet
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:bouquet: :hug:
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So sorry he didn't make it. :hug:
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Thank you all, major lessons learnt all round , I will ensure that I thoroughly check the the breeder ethics and I will not be placed in a position that might compromise the health of such a wonderful little creature!