The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Dans on June 28, 2016, 12:49:18 am
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Hi guys,
Our eggs are under our broody and due to hatch on Sat. I've realised that I'm utterly clueless about what comes next. I've had a search online but most of what I find seems to be to do with incubating eggs and when I do find information about broodies it seems to be contradictory. So I've come here with my questions
1) I need a good poultry book, any recommendations?
2) Chick crumb. I understand they are on this from day 2 until 8 weeks. Do I need the anti-coccidia one? I have 6 hens and a cockerel free ranging over a large garden. My hens are unvaccinated. One thing I read said if they are with a broody they will get immunity from her, another said that you should always use it. I also saw you need mixed grit for them. Mine has some really large pieces, is that ok or do I need to grind it up more?
3) Housing. I currently have this but it doesn't seem very big once there is water and food in it. Do I need something bigger for them once they have hatched.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-triangle-rabbit-Hutch-Easipet/dp/B00BU27SUC/ref=sr_1_10?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1467070922&sr=1-10&keywords=rabbit+run (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-triangle-rabbit-Hutch-Easipet/dp/B00BU27SUC/ref=sr_1_10?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1467070922&sr=1-10&keywords=rabbit+run)
Maybe like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VivaPet-Outdoor-Octagon-Protection-55-inch/dp/B0064NOR5G/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1467070922&sr=1-4&keywords=rabbit+run (https://www.amazon.co.uk/VivaPet-Outdoor-Octagon-Protection-55-inch/dp/B0064NOR5G/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1467070922&sr=1-4&keywords=rabbit+run)
4) Once they hit 8 weeks I saw one article saying to take the hen away at that point. Do I need to do that? When can I integrate them with the rest of my flock? I also saw one place saying to separate out the cockerels at 18 weeks I think. Do I then keep them on for a bit longer until they are ready for eating or can I keep them in with the others until they reach that stage?
If you have any other pearls of wisdom for raising chicks with a broody that I haven't asked for, feel free to give them!
Thank you all. Hopefully I will soon have some pictures of happy chicks to share with you.
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do you mind if I hang onto this thread too [member=25651]Dans[/member] ? its just am in a similar situation :-[ Mine are speckled sussex hoping they hatch ok, due friday they are :excited: does it matter either breed or is it the same with every breed? Q4 that is. Sorry for hijacking the thread :innocent:
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Your co-op should be fine for a few weeks at least,Dans.
You can pop the chick crumbs in as soon as they hatch.Mum will eat them too. I think it is a matter of preference whether you use the medicated crumbs of not.Most people!e that I know don't use them .... I suppose it depends on your circumstances. You can't eat eggs from hens that might manage to eat the medicated crumbs... if for example you move the coop and crumb is left behind in the grass.So that maybe a consideration.
Our chicks leave mum when mum decides that the time is right. She will make it quite clear that she has had enough and probably move back to her original pen leaving the chicks behind! Time that this happens varies a lot with ours. The pekins usually leave theirs by 8 weeks but other breeds later.
Once our chicks are feathered and a bit stronger we let them free range with the other hens. Mum will protect them. Just watch carefully to begin with and check your flocks reaction. Also consider other dangers that maybe specific to your location ..... cats, sparrowhawk etc Our flock are used to new arrivals and only have a quick look and our cat takes little notice once they get to a certain size.
We leave any cockerels with the flock until they become a problem! We have had some that never caused a problem but others would try to snatch at hens to tread them and would have damaged them if not separated ..... gang rape!
Pekins cause few problems but larger breeds seemed more problematic. Think the little pekins are kept in check by the big Rhodie cockerel ....so flock dynamics.
Never given our chicks any grit but you can buy special chick grit ... we give it to our quail!
Fingers crossed for a good hatch ..... have fun!
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Chick crumbs then growers pellets. Mama will probably be OK to take away from them when she starts to lay again, or some are happy to stay with the chicks for much longer. I separate out the cockerels when they start crowing - at that point they're also capable of treading. I put the boys in with a Peacekeeper - a cockerel at least a year older who will automatically become the top of the pecking order (apart from a few hackles raised by really dim youngsters) until the following Spring, by which time all those unsuitable for breeding will have gone anyway.
Before you let the youngsters out with the free ranging birds I recommend worming the flock as the youngsters will be naïve and could pick up a heavy worm burden very quickly.
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As far as chick crumbs are concerned - as a beginner I would advise using those with coccidiostat. The coccidia oocytes are everywhere and will hatch out in damp conditions. There is no immunity transferred from the broody, so unless you can keep the chicks' environment totally dry you are at risk of them getting coccidiosis and dying.
However, if you feed the chicks some whole corn or wild bird seed, +grit with their chick crumbs then the action of the grit grinding up the corn/seed in the gizzard will also grind up the oocytes and does provide very good protection from coccidiosis.
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Thanks again guys.
Ended up with medicated crumbs as the feed store only does that. She did say no withdrawal though so will have to check, I took a picture of the bag though as she sells smaller quantities. She has in the past tried to sell me very x as a wormer so I don't completely trust her.
Should I have the checks within sight of the rest of the flock? Currently the broody coop is in a shed on a concrete floor away from the others (free range at the back of the house).
The broody coop just seems to small with the drinker and things in. Should I let mother hen out to stretch her legs?
Any book recommendations?
Dans
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If the broody coop looks too small - then it is.
Ideally the hen will want to walk about with her chicks and have somewhere to scratch.
Can you not make some sort of run to attach to the broody coop so they have somewhere to move about?
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I hatch a number of chicks and through time I don't think it's a good idea to have broodies. if the chicks are important breeding stock I would not bother. Naw I use 2 broodie boxes 8 foot long split in 3 or 5 or 1 big one heat light the number lost out of 250 chicks only 1. Broodies I sex the chicks and put them under the hen. Problem going out and chilling tangle up in fether's puddles etc. Crows etc i have lost a lot in the past. So I only brood if I'm selling whith the hens or eggs that were free. Boodies are good if made from sickies. I use silkie cross. The first time one nests she has 1 egg and iff all go's well a green leg band a good mother. Iv got some legbars hatching Saturday and the 3 broodies will have them. I won't let them out and they will be together sext until six weeks.. Feeding the broodie I give them boiled eggs mackvities ground up dog food to get them back in condition. The brooders are the best bit of kit 3 ceramic heat lamps. Water cups and backing trays for the food. I always change the cockrals every season no matter haw good. Eggs comes from well known breeders from UK lines. The other thing I do is hatch 5 chicks from my line and Mark there legs and look at haw they hatch and grow and haw they finish I then no haw good the stock is. This season iv kept three cockerels and 5 hens. I've also got young hens to fill the places from the old hens. Its important to improve each season.
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Without seeing the hen, coop and offspring it's difficult to say whether or not they have enough space. I don't think it would be a good idea to let mum out on her own ..... you want her to keep her mind on the job as it were!
I second the other post and would make a little extension to the run if need be. Mine usually move with mum to a larger coop once a bit bigger. They stay there with mum until she's had enough and moves out and then on their own in there until old enough to move in with the rest of the flock .... at around point of lay.
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Thanks guys. We are sourcing one of those metal cages that we will use to give them more space.
In the mean time we had one egg shell at the front of the broody on Sat night, sunday morning we had three chicks, one egg with a hole in it and 3 eggs doing not much. Sunday night it was the same. At what point do we give up on the one with the hole in it and the others?
Dans
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Has the pipped egg made any progress this morning, Dan's?
Can you see or feel movement in the egg?
If you hold the remaining eggs to your ear can you hear the chicks cheeping
?
We sometimes give the eggs a slight misting with Luke warm water from a plant spray bottle if it looks as though the membrane is very dry .... like you would if hatching in an incubator.
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Well I went out this morning and the egg with the hole had finally hatched. Another little black chick mostly hiding under mama.
Unfortunately mama hen is sitting outside the nest box and the other three eggs are cold. I think she may have given up on them. I'll see if I can hear anything.
4 out of 7 (9 to starthe with but 2 went rotten) isn't too bad for a first time (hen and us) is it?
Dans
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Went out to check the remaining eggs. Mum wasn't on them but one of them had a pipping sound even though it was cold. Should I put it under where mamma hen is sitting now? No sound from the other two.
Dans
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Yes, pop it under her and check during the afternoon that she stays on it .... sometimes they lose interest because they are so preoccupied with the chicks .... especially if they start to venture outdoors. You could try locking her in the shut in part of the house. She may then settle down as if nighttime .... just make sure she isn't distressed as she could hurt the chicks. I'd pop the other two under her as well if you can.
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Ack this is stressful.
Went in to pop the eggs under her, only to see outside of the coop. She clucked at it when I came in and it squeezed it's way through but need to secure the pen.
I was heading out so I locked her into the nest box area with the chicks and water and crumb and eggs. She was a little upset at first but then settled.
Checked on her when I certainly back and is on one side of the nest box with the chicks and the eggs are on the other. Does that mean she has completely rejected them? Is there anything I can do to help the chick that is pipping? I don't have an incubator but I might be able to see if anyone can help me out locally.
Dans
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It's always a bit of a gamble in these situations IMO.
Could be that she senses that there is a problem with the chick that hasn't hatched yet or simply that she is now busy with her new family and their needs.
We always do our best to give the chicks a chance so yes I'd see if anyone could let you have the use of an incubator.
Has the chick made any progress? You could spray the egg go try to hasten hatching. How long has it been since it pipped? We have picked chicks out or taken off part of the shell to speed things up but you have to be very careful because they will bleed if you do it too soon.
Keeping the egg warm and letting it hatch naturally would be best. Not sure if a hot water bottle and placing in airing cupboard would be okay .... farmers around here say that it works .... so maybe as a last resort!
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Not great news unfortunately. We brought the eggs in after she set up camp outside the nest box again day yesterday. We kept them warm and brought the candler in this evening to have a look. One I could see feathers but no movement, two I couldn't see anything. They are dark brown eggs which doesn't help.
We gave up and I went to dispose of them. The first one popped when I tapped it against the sink and reeked. No development and a ticking time bomb. Funnily enough this is the one that she did sit on the other night, rejecting the other two.
The second one I cracked broke my heart. I was expecting it to pop but it didn't, there were black feathers and then they moved :'( It was very small with a large yolk sack that hadn't been absorbed. For some reason this chick was several days behind the others (they are 3 days old now). I held it until it stopped moving and felt very awful but I don't think there was anything I could have done for it. Maybe if I had an incubator I could have tried it in there, but there was no movement when we candled.
The third was likely the one that I had heard tapping on the shell. It was huge in the shell but still had a bit of yolk not absorbed and was lifeless.
I kind of wish I had done this during the day so I could have gone out and seen the four other chicks jumping around and remind myself that there is good from this hatch. I guess it is my first smallholding loss and as much as I try there will be more.
On the upside the other four are doing really well. One was even on mama hen's back when I went in today!
Does anyone have an idea of why these two chicks were so far behind the others? Especially the live but very underdeveloped one? I have a picture of the two of them I can PM if it helps. Just wondering if we can prevent this next time.
Thank you all for your help though, just wish it was better news :-(
Dans
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Awww, sorry Dan's. It's always a gamble regarding the unhatched eggs. Try to focus on your healthy chicks.Your hatch wasn't a disaster at all. You have 4 healthy new lives.
The smelly egg wasn't fertile or died very early in development. It happens. Did you candle at any point during the 21 days? All you can do is candle and remove anything that doesn't seem to be developing correctly.
In the case of the small, less developed chick. There may have been some underlying problem with that chick meaning that it just didn't grow as it should. I'm assuming that she didn't have too many eggs under her and that she could cover them all and keep them warm.
The chick that looked large and formed may also have had some underlying weakness and possibly couldn't make it out of the shell.If we can see movement but feel that a chick is not making progress, after say 24 hours, we spray with tepid water and remove a tiny amount of shell with our fingers or tweezers. Then leave for a while and see what happens. Often that seems enough for them to do the rest themselves.In some situations we completely pick the chick out .....this has mainly been for incubator hatches where conditions may not have been ideal for the hatching process but have done this with natural hatches too.
Some people disagree with helping chicks out of the shell as they believe these chicks are weak and it indicates a problem.
:hug:
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I've found that chicks hatching more than two days after the due date generally have a problem and wouldn't have been healthy stock had they survived anyway. I never interfere with or lift a broody and just let her get on with it. My broody coops have a 3 sq metre chick-proof run and I find this is enough space to keep the broody from going stir-crazy whilst the chicks grow and are kept safe.
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Should say to be very careful if you to choose to assist a chick .... too early and they will bleed. If you see any blood stop immediately.Timing is crucial. Important not to jump in too soon.
Only other thing I can think of is sourcing of eggs. If you buy eggs in ..... you don't know how old the eggs are, fertility rates, how healthy the stock were. Also possibility of inbreeding in parental stock.
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Thanks guys.
I think she did have too many eggs. She was only a small hen and we ordered 6 larger eggs. There was a mix up as the seller didn't have the eggs ready and didn't realise we had a broody so she ended up sending us 9 eggs. In hindsight we should have probably not put them all under her, especially when we saw some peeking out. I've learnt my lesson on that one.
The four we have are now very lively, jumping on Mama hen's back, trying to leg it out of the coop when we open it for food and water changes etc, and being impossible to catch. They've started getting proper feathers as well. We are picking up a large A-frame on Sunday that will give them more space. I'm looking forward to them being big enough to raise the food off the floor, Mama hen is kicking up the bedding all over the place, blocking up the drinker and burying the food dish!
Were there any book suggestions? I feel like I have 1001 questions and feel bad bugging you all all the time.
Dans
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I quite like the Haynes manual for Chickens (got bees and smallholding too) - particularly good photos.
Broodies can be random. I now try and time broody and incubator setting at the same time so I can move them inside if needs be. I've just done that and she was obviously off the eggs more than the incubator was - incubator hatch was fab so I put the chicks under her when they were tiny, and took the eggs that were under her into the incubator. They were all much slower to hatch and two of them got out but were too weak to make it. Having said that, two others hatched at 26 days (latest ever hatch!) and are now thriving - she adopted them once I was sure they could keep up with their four day older siblings. Don't brood on it (see what I did there?) - I've had them die at every stage and normally I reckon there's a reason for it...
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I have a few books but honestly couldn't say that they give much different advice than you have on here. A good general poultry book can be useful but not read anything giving much detail on broodies.
Can you put the feeders in the outdoor run section .... away from the bedding? You may need to partly cover the run to protect from rain and wind.
We raise ours quite early on. You can put them on a block of wood or similar ... chicks will hop onto the overhanging wood to feed. Helps keep food and water clean and bedding free. They are quite agile ... we even do it with tiny quail chicks.
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That's a good idea Hester. Might try that in future. Can a broody adopt day old chicks on top of the ones she has successfully hatched? I suppose that she is somewhat limited on how many she can fit under her to keep warm?
Thanks for that In The Hills, we've raised them today and instead of having to change the water every two hours it has actually stayed clean!
Ok I'll fire off m questions.
The coop is currently inside my large, concrete floored, shed. I have bedding down in the nest box and the run area so that they have something to scratch in and the poop is easier to clear up. Is that ok?
I would quite like to move them outside and have the run on grass but we currently have something stealing eggs so I'm a bit nervous putting the chicks out in case it's a rat and they dig under to get the chicks. Am I paranoid? Would chicken wire under the run area, as a floor, make it safe to put them out on grass?
When is the earliest I can introduce them to the flock safely? I know some people hatch in the hen house and so the chicks are immediately integrated into the flock. Is earlier integration better?
They've gone through their medicated feed at lightening speed (I suspect because Mama Hen keeps throwing it out of the feeder and showing them how to scratch for it). Is there a set time they need the medicated feed for and does it store well? These may well be my only chicks for the year and I don't want to buy a big bag and have it go off.
Can I put some greens in for Mama hen, or are the little ones too young (I'm pretty sure they'll have a go at eating it if she does)? She was very much free ranging before and I feel a bit sorry for her on just chick crumb.
Dans - very nervous chick mother!
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I have my Broody coop on the lawn very close to the house ..... daughter is always popping out to them ..... chicken mad! We do have the odd rat but not a massive problem. The shut in quarters are opened in the morning. Mum usually takes the chicks to bed fairly early in the evening and we then lock them in for the night .... just like the older hens. We've never lost any due to rats. I suppose it is always a risk but I think mum would try her utmost to protect the chicks if anything tried to get in during the day and they are fairly safe at night if locked in.
I like them on the grass personally. Coop is !moved each night and they spend more time out than in and so stay cleaner. Run is partially covered to protect from the elements and placed where there is shafe if hot weather.
They have grass, lawn weeds and insects to peck at ..... just seems more natural. Bit like free ranging hens ... maybe few more risks but also benefits.
Crumbs will last a while but not really until next year. Depends how much they are getting through. Growers pellets next .... introduce slowly by mixing in gradually with crumbs.
Ours are on the lawn and rest of flock have access to this area too so see them from day 1.We let mum and chicks out once they are feathered a bit and looking a bit like hens .... as growers. Feel they are a bit safer then from our mog, feral cats, rats birds of prey etc. Always watch reaction of other hens to start with but we've never had a problem. Mum keeps a careful eye on them. Also watch reaction of your cats, dogs, etc. I know some people that let them out straight away with mum but I've never risked it.
Try to relax and enjoy them. I always find it a better experience than incubator hatching .... when you're checking temperatures and all. It's more down to their mum and usually she knows best. ;D
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I keep my chicks with the broody until she starts laying again, then she goes back with the flock and they stay locked up in the ark they were raised in. We have too many predators - buzzards, sparrowhawks, kestrels, crows, ravens, badgers, foxes, stoats, weasels, polecats, rats - to risk them outside until fully grown.
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Naw the out come there is some good broodies and bad or first time. This was stressful for you Dan's. Growing them in the incubater till full term would of given the hen a hand. Then give her 3 chicks and no fuss it's just luck good or bad.. If you won't broodies grow some silki sussex they are better than a incubater. All the best Dan's
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Can a broody adopt day old chicks on top of the ones she has successfully hatched? I suppose that she is somewhat limited on how many she can fit under her to keep warm? YES, I got 20 odd chicks under a Sussex hen.
Thanks for that In The Hills, we've raised them today and instead of having to change the water every two hours it has actually stayed clean! CAN give them water drinking bottles too (I do this as a backup if I'm out all day.)
The coop is currently inside my large, concrete floored, shed. I have bedding down in the nest box and the run area so that they have something to scratch in and the poop is easier to clear up. Is that ok? SOUNDS OK.
I would quite like to move them outside and have the run on grass but we currently have something stealing eggs so I'm a bit nervous putting the chicks out in case it's a rat and they dig under to get the chicks. Am I paranoid? Would chicken wire under the run area, as a floor, make it safe to put them out on grass? YES, Or flaps of wire at sides, pinned into ground if that's easier?
When is the earliest I can introduce them to the flock safely? I know some people hatch in the hen house and so the chicks are immediately integrated into the flock. Is earlier integration better? ONCE mine have proper feathers and are flapping and running about I let them out in a big pen, they can see other birds through the wire, then I let them out in the afternoons sometimes. I have let mums with tiny chicks out to range with the others (own house) and never had any problems.
Is there a set time they need the medicated feed for and does it store well? These may well be my only chicks for the year and I don't want to buy a big bag and have it go off. Up to you whether to feed medicated or not, chick crumb for while they are chicks, then growers, They'll eat more crumb as they grow, and I don't think the transition to growers is essential, I'd buy another bag.
Can I put some greens in for Mama hen, or are the little ones too young (I'm pretty sure they'll have a go at eating it if she does)? She was very much free ranging before and I feel a bit sorry for her on just chick crumb. YES! If you can get their run on grass they'll eat a fair bit of it and enjoy it too.
Dans - very nervous chick mother! -got to start somewhere, and it's great that you care!
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:rant: :rant: :rant: My broody abandoned her eggs last night - stone cold and dead this morning, with just 3 days to go til hatching :'(
Even had we been there, we don't have an incubator, nor any way to care for chicks without a mother hen. She was in the main henhouse, with another just for her and the chicks ready and waiting for when they hatched.
We had lost another hen a few weeks ago, who seems to have made her nest in a hedge then disappeared - presumably a fox had got through the fence and taken her. So no luck this year.
Enjoy the chicks you do have Dans :thumbsup:
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:rant: :rant: :rant: My broody abandoned her eggs last night - stone cold and dead this morning, with just 3 days to go til hatching :'(
Even had we been there, we don't have an incubator, nor any way to care for chicks without a mother hen. She was in the main henhouse, with another just for her and the chicks ready and waiting for when they hatched.
We had lost another hen a few weeks ago, who seems to have made her nest in a hedge then disappeared - presumably a fox had got through the fence and taken her. So no luck this year.
Enjoy the chicks you do have Dans :thumbsup:
I am so sorry to hear this fleecewife, it must be really awful! :hug: