The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: Orinlooper on May 29, 2016, 01:44:18 pm
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Does the planning laws permit living in a tiny house on wheels on agricultural land?
Would you still have to pay council tax?
What if you had solar panels and rain water harvesting systems, would it be possible to live rent free with no bills? Growing most of your own food.
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Is that not just a different version of a caravan? If you are living on agricultural land then it needs a change of use.
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Agree that would be classed as a caravan and need planning permission
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What would happen if you just went ahead and started living there, you may not get found out.
What would happen if you did get found out, how long before you had to move the tiny house?
Then what would happen if you had nowhere to put it and you went past the deadline they gave you?
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And unfortunately even a tiny caravan with no water conection etc. is still liable for council tax.
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What would happen if you just went ahead and started living there, you may not get found out.
What would happen if you did get found out, how long before you had to move the tiny house?
Then what would happen if you had nowhere to put it and you went past the deadline they gave you?
No you may not get found out but unlikely.
No idea how long exactly to move said house but I would think it would be a matter of months at the most, maybe only weeks.
Passed the deadline I don't know but eventually it would have to go.
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What about a 'hut'?
http://www.thousandhuts.org/?page_id=11 (http://www.thousandhuts.org/?page_id=11)
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A dwelling is a dwelling is a .....
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You can live off grid if you wish .... but you will still need residential planning for ANY dwelling big, small, wheeled or otherwise .... and you will be liable for council tax.
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Agreed.
My understanding is that planners are concerned with the whole impact of any new dwelling- not just what it looks like, but whether the local roads, school, etc can handle the proposed increase in population.
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I lived in my small caravan for two years with no fuss, the caravan is still there and no-one has bothered me, but my land is well off the beaten track.
I have one neighbour who lives in a tepee and another in a converted horse box. He was reported and told to move it but he said no and was given a wheelie bin and a council tax bill.
People always say.....what if everyone did this.......but, truly, how many people would want to? Most folk are conventional (and law abiding) and to be truthful it's not the most comfortable way of living so I don't suppose there would be an epidemic of caravans and tents.
Just make sure it is screened from any road/public right of way.
(Why do I feel a wave of indignation coming my way!)
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As a wise woman once said to me "nae cheek, nae chance" - what's the worst that could happen? ;) If they find out, you'll be told to move it. They'll not come and demolish it, not without a protracted legal battle, so as long as you move it if/when they tell you to I'd say go for it.
I'd love to live in a tiny house (or yurt) completely off grid, but with 4 kids and a husband all hard wired to the modem and a love of big bouncy dogs, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. Good luck :thumbsup:
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You can live off grid if you wish .... but you will still need residential planning for ANY dwelling big, small, wheeled or otherwise .... and you will be liable for council tax.
Wonder how Russ does it (Rustyme)?
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As a wise woman once said to me "nae cheek, nae chance" - what's the worst that could happen? ;) If they find out, you'll be told to move it. They'll not come and demolish it, not without a protracted legal battle, so as long as you move it if/when they tell you to I'd say go for it.
I'd love to live in a tiny house (or yurt) completely off grid, but with 4 kids and a husband all hard wired to the modem and a love of big bouncy dogs, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. Good luck :thumbsup:
If the council tell you to move it , and you do not in the majority of cases they serve a enforcement notice.
They will give you a period of time to move it
Say 3 - 6 months if its a home allowing time to relocate.
If you do not agree you can appeal the enforcement notice within 30 days.
Then it can drag on for another year or so, if you appeal and its on planning it goes a bit quicker 3-6 months.
But even if you loose you can apply for extension to remove it planning inspectors often allow 9-12 months for relocation.
Thats if you get reported
If its a caravan you need 10 years residential use before a enforcement notice is served
If you say converted a barn and lived in it for 4 years as your home.
In both cases if its proved the use becomes immune from prosecution or forced removal
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...just claim you're a traveller. If they serve notice to move then move onto a neighbours field. When he finally gets eviction notices you move back... and so it goes on. Oh, and they'll need a helicopter and several police cars and vans and dogs before they consider serving any notice. Oh, and you don't have to pay any taxes, insurances , road fund licenses and can help yourself to any neighours goods and property without redress....
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I suppose it depends on what part of the country you are..but here in Shropshire you can"t get away with much.Best you could hope for is a caravan at the bottom of a garden for elderly relative/carer/agricultural worker and you would still pay counckl tax (band A) and need planning permission. There use to be an exemption for council tax for those holiday homes (if you only spend so many weeks in them) and what about a canal boat?
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............. and what about a canal boat?
A canal boat on wheels? Should confuse them :roflanim: :roflanim:
..or dig a pond for it...
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I lived in my small caravan for two years with no fuss, the caravan is still there and no-one has bothered me, but my land is well off the beaten track.
I have one neighbour who lives in a tepee and another in a converted horse box. He was reported and told to move it but he said no and was given a wheelie bin and a council tax bill.
People always say.....what if everyone did this.......but, truly, how many people would want to? Most folk are conventional (and law abiding) and to be truthful it's not the most comfortable way of living so I don't suppose there would be an epidemic of caravans and tents.
Just make sure it is screened from any road/public right of way.
(Why do I feel a wave of indignation coming my way!)
No indignation from me, you are my hero
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What about a 'hut'?
http://www.thousandhuts.org/?page_id=11 (http://www.thousandhuts.org/?page_id=11)
"Since 2014 Scottish Planning Policy (SPP) encourages local authorities to consider the construction of huts in rural settings for recreational accommodation."
I wonder what it's like in Wales, does this same thing apply?
Here is a good site
https://homefarmer.co.uk/getting-planning-permission-log-cabins-mobile-homes/ (https://homefarmer.co.uk/getting-planning-permission-log-cabins-mobile-homes/)
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What about a 'hut'?
http://www.thousandhuts.org/?page_id=11 (http://www.thousandhuts.org/?page_id=11)
"Since 2014 Scottish Planning Policy (SPP) encourages local authorities to consider the construction of huts in rural settings for recreational accommodation."
I wonder what it's like in Wales, does this same thing apply?
From a Welsh tax payer ..... I hope not. ( yes Ok send in the storm troopers! :innocent:)
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In wales - yes we have enough problems with all the farms being a holiday house - without leting people spend 3 grand on a bit of land and park a 20 grand 'shepards' hut in it, then think they are part of the community becuase they come 3 times a year and buy a burger from the local pub.
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Is there not a new law in Wales, that allows people, who are using the land for agricultural purposes and making their livinf from the land, to be able to apply for permission to build a dwelling on their land. I believe it's restricted permission. ie, it couldn't be used as a holiday home or sold on etc.
I'll try and remember who informed me.
I for one, would love to build a tiny house on my land and live off grid. I think there would be quite a lot of people wanting to do this. I'd love to have a couple of cows and some sheep, keep my chickens there. I'm almost ready to chuck everything in and do that. I've even thought that it would be ok to move my cats in as well.
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http://lammas.org.uk/planning/ (http://lammas.org.uk/planning/)
I wish this was possible in SE England. I'm so up for an eco tiny build off grid dwelling and being self sufficient.
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Getting around planning restrictions by demonstrating an agricultural need is nothing new- but it is not straightforward. You have to demonstrate a genuine need to be present on the land, and any house built under this exemption is subject to an agricultural tie. That will have implications for mortgages etc.
I remember there was a company a few years back who used to advertise package mushroom farms as a way of achieving this- they advertised in a housebuilding magazine, not a farming one, of course!
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Indeed, and it is hard work, let me assure you.
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A friend of mine had about 20 acres, a large agri barn, some hens, sheep and a couple of pigs, 5 miles from her cottage in a small village - council eventually admitted she was almost there with about 7 points out of the ten needed.
She went along to feed them all one morning to find one of her pigs dying, had to call the vet and have it put down - a vagrant had sliced a bit off it to eat!!!! (he was still there, out of his mind, and the police took him away, and left her sobbing; she never heard anything more from them)
Even THEN her council wouldn't let her have even a caravan on the land so she could protect her animals! She sold the land and gave up.
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The main criteria to get permission for a house is need to be on site for animal welfare
Full time occupation for one person
And you need to make a income of @£13k
Sometimes they give temporary permission for a mobile home for 3 years in that 3 years you are expected to generate that income in at least one of the 3 years.
If you fail they very very rarely give a extension and its game over
So imo best way is to get bis generating a substantial income before you even attempt that route
its a long process and you only get permission as stated above tied to agricultural use
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Have heard that an intensive poultry unit could get you permission to build house...but then you would need planning for the poultry unit first.Which comes first?
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If you can at least start the business off site then you can get things going, but you need to then show that you need to be on site, when you apply for your temporary
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The main criteria to get permission for a house is need to be on site for animal welfare
Full time occupation for one person
And you need to make a income of @£13k
Worse than that i think, it's agricultural min wage, plus a percentage to service a mortgage and potentially a percentage of land value increase i've been told
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'The main criteria to get permission for a house is need to be on site for animal welfare.'
Does this apply if your plot is only 0.5-1 acre?
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The main criteria is to provide at least one full time job with a sustainable income of @£14 k where 24 hour supervision is justified on welfare grounds.
And it is very unlikely you would be able to prove justification on such a size plot
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I know someone who bought some land, decided to do ostrich farming, which requires permanent supervision due to being a 'dangerous animal'. He ended up with a large house on the land eventually...
(that could all be BS, but it's the story he told me)
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I know someone who bought some land, decided to do ostrich farming, which requires permanent supervision due to being a 'dangerous animal'. He ended up with a large house on the land eventually...
(that could all be BS, but it's the story he told me)
BS should that be OS? :roflanim:
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............. and what about a canal boat?
A canal boat on wheels? Should confuse them :roflanim: :roflanim:
..or dig a pond for it...
Amphibious tiny house is a brilliant idea.
No problem with floods
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............. and what about a canal boat?
A canal boat on wheels? Should confuse them :roflanim: :roflanim:
..or dig a pond for it...
Amphibious tiny house is a brilliant idea.
No problem with floods
This sounds like a cracking loophole!
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I lived in my small caravan for two years with no fuss, the caravan is still there and no-one has bothered me, but my land is well off the beaten track.
I have one neighbour who lives in a tepee and another in a converted horse box. He was reported and told to move it but he said no and was given a wheelie bin and a council tax bill.
People always say.....what if everyone did this.......but, truly, how many people would want to? Most folk are conventional (and law abiding) and to be truthful it's not the most comfortable way of living so I don't suppose there would be an epidemic of caravans and tents.
Just make sure it is screened from any road/public right of way.
(Why do I feel a wave of indignation coming my way!)
No indignation from me, you are my hero
Brilliant! Not at all indignified either :eyelashes: :excited:
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............. and what about a canal boat?
A canal boat on wheels? Should confuse them :roflanim: :roflanim:
..or dig a pond for it...
Amphibious tiny house is a brilliant idea.
No problem with floods
This sounds like a cracking loophole!
Sorry but it's not a loophole. Living on the land, whether in boat, tent or converted plane still counts as a change of use and requires planning.
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UK tenants don’t need to pay rent https://youtu.be/PIrncTg19D8