The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: JedM on April 25, 2016, 07:18:47 am
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Hi, I have recently hatched some eggs in my brinsea incubator, and the fertility was great when I candled after 2 weeks. But only a few of the fertile eggs hatched, and when I cracked the other eggs open, they all had big chicks in them which looked fully formed so I'm presuming they must have died in the last few days.
What would be causing the chicks to die? The incubator has stayed at the same temperature, but I struggled to get the humidity above 60%.
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Sorry to hear this, such a shame when it doesn't work out well.
I put soaked sponges in plastic pots at the sides of the eggs to get the humidity up higher.
Better luck next time x
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Thanks Steph hen.
The sponges sound a good idea. Did you put the sponges in just in the last few days of incubation?
Humidity was between 45-55% all 3 weeks.
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Which Brinsea is it, the mini or a bigger one? Sounds like you have an octagon or so? Did you use an independent thermometer and hygrometer?
In the octagon, I spread tissue paper over the bottom (so under the black tray) but draped into the water slots, so it soaks water up and then the wet surface area is so much greater. Then I top it up with water using a crop feeding tube and a syringe throug the air hole at the top (remember to keep that one open even during the last days) to keep it at 65-70%, but then again humidity in our house is really low so I need to top it up a lot.
With the octagon, it is very important to not open the incubator at all during the last few days, as even if the humidity goes up again very quickly the little draft of dry air has already dried out the membrane a bit and the moist air doesn't undo that.
It's so annoying when they don't hatch at the end, isn't it, I always feel sorry for the little chicks that don't make it. :(
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That's great Eve, thank you! I am about to set another batch of eggs so I will try your method using tissue paper. I do have an octagon 20 but it is the older version. It doesn't show what the humidity is so I have a separate gadget which tells me this.
Mine has 4 air holes at the bottom but none at the top. I lift the lid off the incubator twice a day in the last week to spray the eggs. Is this not necessary if the humidity is high enough? I was told that spraying the eggs with water softens the shell which makes it easier for the chicks to hatch.
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We have an octagon and had the same trouble. I was told to keep humidity about 45-55% during first three weeks then ramp it up once turning stops.
I ended up saving about 7 out of the 8 who pipped but never got any further by being super careful in removing shell / membrane over a day or so with tiny tweezers and egg wrapped in damp warm cloth.
I have now started incubating in the brinsea but swapping to a still air incubator at hatch. I think the forced fan ones seem to dry out the membranes too much.
Its all a bit of a learning curve but nothing more annoying than taking eggs to near hatch and then the large chicks not emerging.
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Were the dead chicks soggy or dry? Most problems I had with my Octagons were too much humidity. I put no water in now until day 18 and then fill the channels and lock down. 90% of what is fertile hatches. Your chicks may be drowning when they pip.
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Were the dead chicks soggy or dry? Most problems I had with my Octagons were too much humidity. I put no water in now until day 18 and then fill the channels and lock down. 90% of what is fertile hatches. Your chicks may be drowning when they pip.
Same here. They probably drowned in the shell. Even more difficult for goose eggs...
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There might have been too much humidity as I kept the channels full, but the humidity was staying at about 50% which I thought was about right for the first 18 days.
On the next lot, I will try leaving the channels empty and then using the damp tissue paper method for the last 3 days. Would this be a better way?
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Shaun Hammon of the Wernlas Collection (now retired) told me they never added water in their incubators as it made the chicks too big to turn inside the egg and pip properly. I have an old Octagon and haven't added water for the last couple of dozen hatches. One or two generally fail to pip but the success rate of the fertile eggs is good overall.
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I likewise have had difficulty finding the line between too much humidity and too little. I never put water in the channels of my octagon 20 until day 18 although I have a humidity pump which does add some. I tend to incubate most eggs at 40% RH but monitor the air sac/weights when I candle to make sure the chicks have enough room to hatch. Hen chicks need to lose about 11% of their weight. I have found thicker shelled eggs such as dark brown Maran eggs may need slightly lower humidity to dry out enough; but I will incubate my Wyandotte and Cream Legbar eggs at 45% otherwise the chicks will be too dry and shrink wrapped. At day 18 I fill both channels and put a cloth as a wick from the channels across the base to increase humidity. I set the humidity control at 75% but be aware if you open the incubator for any reason the humidity will drop suddenly and could compromise the hatch no matter what your readout says. The fan on the octagons does tend to rapidly dry the membranes sometimes making hatching difficult. I have just bought an old still air Polyhatch to use as a hatcher. If I do have to go in I will leave another cloth soaked in water boiled and cooled down to about the right temperature to rapidly boost the humidity. Be aware if you do go in the others are much more likely to need help. It is best not to open if you can help it. I have just had a Brahma hatch. The RH was 40% but although they pipped only the first one hatched himself. The others had not quite enough room so could have done with a degree or two less humidity. I did manage to get seven out of eight out successfully (going very slowly and carefully; gently enlarging the pip hole and moistening the membranes; letting the chicks finish off themselves) although the last has required a lot of TLC to get him going.
Good luck with your next lot!
:fc:
Helen
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Thanks for the useful replies!
Shaun Hammon of the Wernlas Collection (now retired) told me they never added water in their incubators as it made the chicks too big to turn inside the egg and pip properly.
I have set the second batch of eggs yesterday, with no water in the channels, and the humidity is at 19%. Should I ignore this or does it need to be higher at this early stage?
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19% is far, far too low. The air in most people's houses or outbuildings usually has a lot more humidity and that's why for some incubating dry for the first two and a half weeks is viable, but if the air in the room your incubator in is so dry then you need to add water as in the incubator it only gets drier, the incubator is not the same as a live animal sitting on slightly damp ground.
At 19% the egg will loose too much moisture (osmosis), the air cell will consequently be too large which leaves the embryo with not enough space to grow, so come hatching time it will be small and weak.
The incubators Shaum Hammon referred to must have been in a room with ample moisture in the air to get away with not adding any water at all. Unfortunately those advocating incubating dry hardly ever mention that their incubator's environment is one with sufficient humidity (they often don't even realise it), which puts novices on the wrong path. Luckily many people incubate in warmer months when humidity is higher anyway.
Waddy is right with how opening the incubator affects hatching, even a very short draft of dry air dries out that thin membrane and extra moist air doesn't compensate to re-soften the membrane again.
JayR, as it's only day 1 don't panic, though, just top it up today :) You'll find that with better weather (promised for the weekend?) humidity in the room will go up automatically, which helps. I've just hatched 19 out of 20 eggs last week and have the Mini and the Octagon full again now. Busy days :excited:
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I thought it sounded too low ;) so last night I put a small amount of water in the channels, and humidity has shot up to 60%!! I think that may be too high now, hopefully I'll get it sorted soon. I have used your method Eve, and put 2 clothes in the bottom draped into the channels - maybe the water spread too far at this stage ???
I will keep the lid closed as much as possible!
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I have used your method Eve, and put 2 clothes in the bottom draped into the channels - maybe the water spread too far at this stage ???
I will keep the lid closed as much as possible!
I would have thought this would have been just for the final hatching stage? I'd take out the cloths for now. You also don't need to worry much about opening the incubator At the moment - after all, the hen gets off her eggs once or twice a day, and they do get quite cold in this time. It's the last 3-4 days that you need to keep it really moist and stable. During the
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The reason I put the cloths in, was just to be prepared for those final days - and the plan was to leave them dry, but obviously the humidity needed to be increased. So yes, perhaps I should remove the cloths.
That had crossed my mind, the broody gets off her eggs at least once a day, but maybe the eggs don't dry out so much if they are on wood chippings or straw.
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Yes, cloths or paper towels are for hatching only - the good thing is you now know you can easily get it up to 60% when you need to for hatching :) :trophy:
At the moment, in my living room, I have to fill 1 water channel to achieve 40-45% RH. When it comes to hatching it'll be both channels plus some paper towels or cloths if relative humidity is still too low in the living room like it was in the past few weeks (that depends on the weather outside).
I use a crop feeding tube and a syringe, pushed through the little air vent on top, to top up the water during the hatching stage if necessary, since this time of year with the heating on the air here is really dry.
I'm talking about a Brinsea Octagon, btw :)
Don't worry about occassional short term fluctuations in [size=78%]humidity [/size][/size][size=78%]in the first two and a half weeks, it's about averages. If it drops overnight to 35% and then you top it up and for a few hours it is 55% before going to 40-odd it's fine. [/size]
During incubation: 40-50% relative humidity, incubator can be opened e.g. for candling
Last few days: 60-75% relative humidity, incubator must be kept closed BUT keep the little air vent open for a VERY SMALL but EVEN amount of fresh oxygen.
The problem with opening the LID of the incubator is that even a very short woosh of dry air, e.g. whilst you take chicks out, dries out the membrane and even cranking up the humidity immediately by adding extra moisture does not compensate (the membrane does not became moist and supple again). The little air vent doesn't have that effect.
I love spring, I love hatching :excited:
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It's milder here in the south recently, and the humidity in my home has been rising. Today it started very nice but now it's just been raining and the humidity is 47-49%, that's much, much higher than back in March when I had to constantly top up the water in the incubators - something I haven't had to do for a few days now.
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Thanks for the info Eve, very useful!
It is good weather here today in Suffolk, but it doesn't seem to affect the humidity in my incubator. I top the water up regularly, and try and keep humidity between 30-50%.
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It dropped back to 20-odd overnight.
Spring is finally on its way anyway - 22C forecast for this weekend! :excited: