The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: farmershort on April 23, 2016, 09:06:04 am
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Hi all,
I've done some googling and kind seem to find much on the subject... I do wonder if I'm using the correct terminology.
We have a natural spring in the field in front of the house, and it sits at roughly the natural high spot of the area.
Would anyone know whats involved and where to start with getting a natural spring commissioned as a water supply?
Thanks
Adam
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No experience of spring but did have a borehole.Needed a presure tank and pump.Cost 5000 18 years ago.?had to havw new pressure tank and pump last year which cost 2500.If u can do these things yourself u can save a lot of money.
No requirement now for local authority in England to test it now (they use to yearly at their expense) Dairy farmers though would come for a lot of testing if it's used in a commetcial sense.
You control the pressure with a pressure tank...you will need good pressire if you have showers.
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"Commissioning" suggests you just need it signed off so you can use it. If it is just a supply for yourself I am pretty sure you can just use it - unless you are commercial (including using it for a B&B) when it will need tested, or using a large volume when you will need an extraction license (from SEPA or EA (I assume)).
Even if you don't need it a water test might be worth it to find out just what is in the water before you spend years drinking it.
If you mean what needs done to collect water from a spring - you need to construct a tank which collects water at the spring.
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I am reminded of the French film "Manon des Sources" where the spring is blocked up seceretly by a vengeful neighbour in South of France...sounds idyllic but I think I wouldn't want to rely on a spring as being my "sole water supply"
.
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Ah, I see what I've missed... Ok, I should have told you this:
We have a field which has a spring in it, and marked on the map. Currently it's just a wet patch in a field where it naturally rises...
What I'd like to know if how we transform it from that, into a useable water supply... Either for the house, or for the field drinkers... Or possibly both... I imagine there is a way of figuring out how much it can supply, ala mineral water factories?
Obviously we need a tank to collect the water, but I assume it's a bit more involved than that is it?
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Our house is fed from a spring. A hole was dug near the spring and a large piece of large diameter (say 3 foot diameter) drain pipe is sunk vertically and partly filled with clean stone. The top of this chamber has a cover and the whole area is fenced off from animals. Alkathene pipe is connected towards the top (obviously below the water level) and water (in our case) flows down this naturally to the holding tanks near the house. These are 3000 litres in total. This in turn feeds the pump house with a sediment filter and UV filter where it is pumped into the house. The top of the holding tanks have an overflow which runs away to the ground. Although I have now put in plastic pipe to feed the field tanks from this. Just have to connect it up!
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My borehole has an electric pump at the bottom of it and when one turns the tap on in the house the water is pumped up directly to the pressure tank on the surface and then into house.There is no holding tank.
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Ours comes in an ancient pot pipe from who knows where, into a brick holding 'tank',gravity fed to the house, overflow from the tank runs into stone trough, overflow from that feeds a trough next to the house.
All OK, but in dry weather we can't use much water or there is none for the cattle.
When we were building the barn, lot of underground water so we put drainage pipes in, built another tank, that carried on running when the top one almost dried up in a hot summer., just boiled it well ?.
No testing officially required for 1 private household, but after I was VERY ill when idiot neighbour broke the supply pipe, but we now have a filter and UV system.
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My borehole has an electric pump at the bottom of it and when one turns the tap on in the house the water is pumped up directly to the pressure tank on the surface and then into house.There is no holding tank.
A borehole is not a spring
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The best information, including drawings of collection chambers is in the Technical Manual dowloadable as a pdf at the bottom of this page. It is ,however, 618 pages but tells you all you need to know.
http://www.privatewatersupplies.gov.uk (http://www.privatewatersupplies.gov.uk)
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So do springs have pressure tanks and is a holding tank gravity fed going to generate enough pressure to get an electric shower to work?
I would be nervous of all these holding tanks leaking...already have them with the solar heated water..Had to replace copper tank after 12 years..we do live in a hard water area.
My neigjbour has a spring..they have had problems with it silting up recently..but that was after about 40 yeats of neglect.
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I'm feeling a future requirement for one of those old fashioned waterpump windmill constructions to move the water from the spring to the house.
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Where are you?
Pump and Farm Supplies (Helston) do this sort of thing, so could advise .
http://www.pfs-uk.co.uk/ (http://www.pfs-uk.co.uk/)
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So do springs have pressure tanks and is a holding tank gravity fed going to generate enough pressure to get an electric shower to work?
I would be nervous of all these holding tanks leaking...already have them with the solar heated water..Had to replace copper tank after 12 years..we do live in a hard water area.
My neigjbour has a spring..they have had problems with it silting up recently..but that was after about 40 yeats of neglect.
The holding tanks are plastic and are outside the house (underground) in my case. They then feed by gravity to a pump room where there is a pump, pressure vessel, filters and ph correction unit (this is necessary for acidic water as copper pipework can get eroded).
The attached pictures show the collection chamber bring installed (by the previous owner) and the pump house with ph correction unit.
To get the flow rate from the sgring you'd need to measure the output under gravity from the pipe for say five minutes then do a calculation to work out litres per day. I got someone to do this in the summer before agreeing to buy the house!
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A lot of agricultural properties/small holdings around Shropshire pay next to nothing in water rates...so initial investment in installing spring/borehole is not worth the candle.My father who has a small holding only pays £80 a year.(Emptying septic tank costs £100 a year...if it needs emptying)
However if you are paying out substantial water rates/have a meter it might be worth the investment.
When something goes wrong and you have to get professionals out it can be expensive....it helps if you can do these things yourself. Installing a new pump cost me £1800. However haven't had to pay any water rates over last 18years.
Emptying septic tank is getting more expensive though...now it can't be spread on the fields.
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So do springs have pressure tanks and is a holding tank gravity fed going to generate enough pressure to get an electric shower to work?
I would be nervous of all these holding tanks leaking...already have them with the solar heated water..Had to replace copper tank after 12 years..we do live in a hard water area.
My neigjbour has a spring..they have had problems with it silting up recently..but that was after about 40 yeats of neglect.
Depends how much higher than the house the tank is?
I don't think ours leak but they are mainly below soil surface. Built with engineering (?) bricks.
We have a ph. correction system with the filter
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Depends how much higher than the house the tank is?
From memory every 10m gives you 1 bar of pressure. So gravity fed holding tanks would need to be getting on for 30m above the shower outlet to give 3 bar of pressure (which is a decent pressure) in the house.
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Here we have to pay water rates and Drainage Board rates, the DB rates are based on land area. The water board however charge regardless of being connected to the mains or not, they claim it is for roof water ect disposal even if they have nothing to do with the property.
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I am on the edge of the Strine Drainage Board an area of marsh that was reclaimed back in the 19th Century.
You contribute depending on land area.There's some major infrastructure required (lots of syphons) and increasingly the local authority put 101s (special agreements from developers) from any major house builders on the maintainance of all this drainage.
Interesting about the shower pressure...I have an abundance of solar heated water in a tank on the Ist floor bathroom. The plumber who installed it reckoned the pressure would be ok for a shower to be put on the groundfloor....but I had my doubts and never went ahead with it.
Agree you need 3 for a decent shower...I think we're all use to super showers now with hotels/leisure facilities.
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I am on the edge of the Strine Drainage Board an area of marsh that was reclaimed back in the 19th Century.
You contribute depending on land area.There's some major infrastructure required (lots of syphons) and increasingly the local authority put 101s (special agreements from developers) from any major house builders on the maintainance of all this drainage.
Interesting about the shower pressure...I have an abundance of solar heated water in a tank on the Ist floor bathroom. The plumber who installed it reckoned the pressure would be ok for a shower to be put on the groundfloor....but I had my doubts and never went ahead with it.
Agree you need 3 for a decent shower...I think we're all use to super showers now with hotels/leisure facilities.
Putting a dual element ( one hot & one cold ) electric pump in the feeds to the bathroom for the extra shower should solve any pressure problems . There is a pressure valve/switch in the pump housing that can often be adjusted to get the right pressures . I fitted a massive brass body pump to solve my low water pressure feed problems and added an extra much bigger header tank for the hot water reserve water .
Re septic tanks;_
Our local " You make it we take it " owner saod to me that iIf they are working properly ....lift the lid and look , you'll find a few fresh turds floating , some dark aged bits and plenty of chicken & leek coloured water .
As the solids start their bacterial digestion journey they break up & very slowly sink ,dissolving due to internal water movement that occurs when new water is added . As the tank receives more water the " juices " dilute even further and runs out the soak away .
Emptying one for a family of four need only take place every five to ten years so long as the soak-away is OK and no one using the toilets has a course of strong antibiotics ( they have occasionally been known to kill the biological action in a septic tank) .
You can either use live yoghurt or purchase a biological septic tank re activator to overcome the killing off by the antibiotics if this has become a problem . Though chucking two decent forks full of rotted manure or adding a couple of gallons of liquid manure made of the same ingredients & put in the tank is also a way of getting it going again .
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I installed a bore hole just over a year ago cost about 5k to drill fit the pump etc. Best tasting water ;-) and no more water bills. This is a video clip I shot to give an idea of whats involved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JNPrr-VY_c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JNPrr-VY_c)
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Ref getting the septic tank working...didn'I read somewhere thst they use to throw a dead sheep into the tank
I have the electric light bulb type....not so good as the old brick type I am told.If I did decide to knock my house down (old cottage) and rebuild I expect planning would require something more technoligical and very expensive.About 3 years ago the Environmental Agency announced that all septic tanks would need to be registered and you would not be able to sell your house unless it was.....I think the government decided it was unfeasible.
That together with the F band council tax..(anything that is new and detatched seems to automatically be rated as E/F by my local authority.)
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we always used a spring water tank that was higher then the property so no need for pumps etc. You'll save a load in water bills and the water is better for you too. The water authority used to condemn it on occasions saying we'd die if we drank it funnily enough all my children were brought up on it and we never got ill so assume the nimbys rathered us have chemical poisoning. Lots of DIY books and most things are doable.