The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Faye.Lear on April 06, 2016, 10:22:37 am
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So I've just come in from my rounds and found one of my lambs (shes 8+ weeks) is stumbling around as if she's become blind overnight!
Shes also got a very wet chin and seems a bit disorientated, not interested in her creep or hay offered.
What on earth can be wrong with her?!
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Vet asap.
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CCN or possibly listeriosis.
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Have been to vet, after two consults they are unsure but reckons either Cocci or Listeriosis.
She's had a dose of Antibiotics, Pain Killers and Anti inflammatories, so fingers crossed she starts to pick up, key is to keep her rehydrated for now.
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So my next question is, can Coccidiosis cause bloat? - She just looks like she has a big tummy, which the vet did pick up on, but didn't confirm whether that can be caused by Cocci.
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Wet chin + bloated stomach = watery mouth. Speak to your vet again.
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He did mention watery mouth, but seems to think it could be this Cocci, I have to call in for a progress update in the morning anyway, she looks brighter already thank goodness, but will mention it again anyhow.
Thanks!
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Wet chin + bloated stomach = watery mouth. Speak to your vet again.
My first thought!
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Wet chin + bloated stomach = watery mouth. Speak to your vet again.
Can they get watery mouth at 8 weeks? :o. I've only ever seen it in the first week.
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Pneumonia. I remember when our first Molly was diagnosed, she was a little dribbley, and it was pneumonia .
I suppose the bloat could be a secondary to the bug. Hope all goes well xx
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Can they get watery mouth at 8 weeks? :o. I've only ever seen it in the first week.
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In older lambs the pH would normally be high enough to destroy the bacteria. It's generally found in lambs under 36 hours old, but I believe E. coli can colonise the gut of older lambs, with broadly the same symptoms and result.
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Wishy washy pH can cause proliferation of bacteria.^^
Hope bub is a little better today x
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So it looks like my little lamb could have Listeriosis, the vet has given her a big dose of antibiotics, and lots of painkillers.
My question now is...has anyone had experiences with this? What was the outcome? - She looks a little better after her second dose of antibiotics and pankillers but I don't want this to go on too long. If shes not going to get better I'd rather have her put to sleep than suffer.
Any input much appreciated as always.
Thanks!
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Difficult to get them back from listeriosis. A lot of it around due to wet, poor quality grass. Fingers crossed. Massive doses of AB's needed, also Combivit and painkillers.
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She's had two doses, one Wednesday, the other yesterday eve. How much more will she need?
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LA every two days - until she gets better (a lot better) or dies. Sorry timescale not exact with listeriosis. We had one case on Xmas day, but he was far too far gone to attempt AB's.
She may also not recover her sight, so be prepared to make that decision at some point.
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Ok, that's what I needed to know. Vet is good but he hasn't had time to call me back and so I've just been popping in to get jabs and doing it myself. Today she seems much better but is still grinding her teeth and not eating. She is drinking and having electrolytes in her water and her eyes seem to be twitching more which I think is good?!
Also - my other lambs, all doing really well, eating small handful of creep morning and evening and ad lib hay (I should add, none have been out to grass yet) but all look pot bellied, any ideas? Just worried at their funny shape!
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Ok, that's what I needed to know. Vet is good but he hasn't had time to call me back and so I've just been popping in to get jabs and doing it myself. Today she seems much better but is still grinding her teeth and not eating.
Also - my other lambs, all doing really well, eating small handful of creep morning and evening and ad lib hay (I should add, none have been out to grass yet) but all look pot bellied, any ideas? Just worried at their funny shape!
Grinding teeth means lots of pain - painkillers, electrolytes, bits and pieces from the hedgerow to tempt her appetite?
I wonder if your other lambs are suffering from cocci, as bloat seems unlikely if they're not out on pasture? Might be worth asking your vet about dosing with Vecoxan?
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She had a jab of painkillers lastnight, but like I said, she seems bright, but still obviously in pain grinding her teeth, just doesn't want to eat, only drinking.
If my other lambs were suffering from Cocci, wouldn't they be scouring? - I suppose I could take a faecal sample to the vets to get it tested, and like you said treat with Vecoxan if needed.
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I am normally against using vecoxan as a preventative, but if your lambs still take the bottle and are inside it may be helpful. Cocci spreads easily in damp bedding and if they are as messy as my goatkids and spread all their pellets on the floor...
However bottle-lambs often are pot-bellied compared to the ones outside and on their dams, so if they are eating/drinking/pooing/peeing fine and are generally bright and alert you may be worrying about nothing.
If your lamb with listeriosis is not eating you need to make sure she gets energy from somewhere - how old is she?... also combivit injections are helpful for appetite.
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Initially I was vague and said 8 weeks+, she's actually 10 weeks, was doing fine off the bottle until Wednesday. She seemed better during the day yesterday, and then last night she was back in the corner head down, grinding teeth - obviously in pain and discomfort and feeling sorry for herself :(.
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TBH - it is very, very difficult to get sheep/goats back to full health from listeriosis... all you can do is persevere with the AB's and TLC if you feel you have a chance. :fc:
Flunixin is a good painkiller/anti-inflammatory, would be helpful in your situation maybe?
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So this morning I went in and gave the lambs their creep as usual and she eventually got the hang of getting her head in the trough! She's also nibbled at a bit of hay and is drinking well. All in all a very big improvement, its always on the evening that she seems to be in pain as she starts grinding her teeth again and stands head down in between the others. Although the teeth grinding has significantly lessened so I'm hoping she is in less pain at least!
All in all, I don't think she is a lost cause yet, so I'm going to get more antibiotics if I can have them and more pain relief as needed, but fingers crossed we might be heading in the right direction?! :) :fc:
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I went in to see the lambs as usual this morning and I now have another one doing exactly the same, although not quite as distressed.
All their feed is good, and their water is clean.
What can be causing this?! - I should add, they are due to go out in the field mid May. Are they lacking something?! :(
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You mention bottle feeding, being indoors, creep, hay etc. Sounds like a high intervention flock of lambs you've got there. What is their provenance?
Infections do spread like wild fire in those sort of surroundings no matter how clean and hygienic the living conditions are...... but if you are having to hand raise them then it would be very hard to do that in a field so it's the devil and the deep blue sea I guess.
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I only have the 6 lambs.. All came to me Jan/Feb and have been fine up until a couple of weeks ago, apart from having Orf.
On thinking lastnight after walking in the field, although they are not on silage, it seems the hay was made from our field late, and there are mole hills, so I think it is likely that dirt pushed up by the moles has got into the hay and this is what must be causing the listeria, seems the only logical solution at this stage.
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It doesn't have to be a feedstuff, many mammals carry it. Hope bub fixes xx
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Why can't they go out until may, lack of grass? I'd stop feeding that hay, buy some fresh. Ime listeriosis is most often the spoiled silage.
The longer indoors the more chance of picking up secondary infections. Can't you strip graze outside and still supplement with creep & hay?
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We had the same thinking Ben, got some new hay yesterday and stopped feeding the other stuff, grass has grown well over the last week so we are going to strip graze as you said, and will supplement them. :)
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If you put them in a large pen initially they'll soon learn to come to the bottle. I like to get lambs outside asap - the environment is much healthier than in the shed - and bring them in only if the weather's atrocious (think Easter Sunday in these parts).