The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Hevxxx99 on April 03, 2016, 04:18:05 pm
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Thinking ahead here: what breed would people recommend as a terminal sire?
Needs to be reasonably hardy as my fields are somewhat exposed on the North Yorks Moors and preferably not too prone to flystrike. I haven't had a problem with it before now, but live in fear. I'd prefer a docile British breed really and one that won't give my girls too much problem when giving birth! I've got a nice crossbred tup at the moment. Well, more of a mongrel really, and he's produced some lovely lambs for us this year, but if I'm keeping his daughters, I need another.
My other thinking is to get something to produce a breeding ewe - a type of mule I guess - and was wondering about a Zwartbles or Llyen and BFL would wither a die come the first winter. Anyone got any knowledge of either breed?
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What breed are your girls?
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This year's lambs are a bit of a mishmash: mostly Mule x crossbred tup, who is Cheviot/Texel/Swaledale I believe. Some are Swaledale x and I'm expecting a few pure Swaledale lambs soon.
The ewes are therefore Mules and Swaledales.
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I use a southdown tup on cheviot mules achieving U3L when slaughtered :thumbsup:
No lambing problems and fast growing.
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To my knowledge, most Zwartbles cross breeding so far has been putting other tups onto Zwartbles ewes rather than the other way around. There is a little information on the breed society website here (http://www.zwartbles.org/breed-promotion/cross-breeding/) though.
I'd prefer a docile British breed really and one that won't give my girls too much problem when giving birth!
Docile - Check!
Easy lambing - Check!
British? - Nee, ik ben bang van niet! ;D
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Ah... Yes.. Good point. (Darn)
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Bl**dy foreigners, coming over here with their fancy stripes and socks to steal our women! ;)
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Not only is the Zwartbles furrin, but they're reputed to have less than brilliant feet - which probably makes them inappropriate for moorland.
There's at least one breeder of Border Leicesters in Yorkshire. The breed is now rare, but was called 'the great improver' and should certainly be able to withstand your area. I don't know about propensity to fly strike though; they are very woolly.
Otherwise, what about a Cheviot? The lambs would be born small but would grow and grow and grow. Not a fast crop, but a good one.
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My three zwartbles tups have lived out with only hedges for shelter and nothing but grass all winter. All three have stayed sound and survived.
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I love the looks of both the Cheviot and the Border Leicester. When I can afford it, I may well go for the Border Leicester.
I read about Clun Forest as being tough sheep: anyone know anything about them?
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I'd stick with a continental tup or Suffolk to produce faster growing lambs seen as you have a mule of sorts!
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I'm hoping to use a zwartble on my texel shearlings this year, easier lambing and produces lambs of top carcass quality.
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Well, whatever you do decide, please let us know how you get on!
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I will do. I can feel a list of "pro's and con's" coming on...
My desire to avoid the continental terminal sires is because they all see to have very large heads (and bums) so harder to lamb unaided. Maybe I'm just tarring them all with the same brush? Also, I don't have the good quality grazing to support fast growth - I think it'd be described as marginal - so I'd have to heavily supplement the diet to keep up with their growth. I don't have enough sheep to be commercially competative, so slower growing, traditional and tasty would be more my market, especially as I am a mutton enthusiast!
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If you can do slower-growing on grass then Cheviot or other native breed would be very suitable, I'd have thought. I've no personal experience of Cheviot tups, though, as to whether they are docile or not. [member=28984]mowhaugh[/member] might be able to comment.
I don't know what Ellie Stokeld charges for her Border Leicester tup lambs, but they don't send anything away fat, so she must have some to sell that aren't 'top drawer' but would be fine for your job... :innocent:
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I can talk, from personal experience, about Texel, Beltex, Dutch Texel and Charollais. They will grow, and finish, without cake (and we're Severely Disadvantaged Cumbrian upland here), but would take slightly longer and might not hit quite such high grades.
People get hung up about head size, but head size isn't the issue. Shoulders and bums are (or can be) the issue. With the breeds in your mix, there's no reason to think your ewes would have narrow birth canals or pelvises, so you're unlikely to have problems, provided you don't cake single-bearers and don't overdo the cake for others.
(We've lambed more than 40 Mules so far this year, and over 50 Texel and other types. All to Texel and Texel x Beltex tups. We had to assist two of the Mules; one had one coming backwards, and the other was a large single - we don't scan and they had all been caked for 7 weeks before lambing.)
We've had two Charollais tups, and all their lambs were very easy lambed, active at birth, grew well, hit target weights and conformation quicker than their Texel and Beltex cross peers. The 'skin' (fleece) is thinner, and you may need to be able to bring ewes in and/or jacket lambs in vile weather. We were advised to get a tup with plenty of wool on his head, as his lambs would be less bare, and we did find that to be the case.
We don't have Charollais tups now, as we kept a lot of the daughters on as breeders, so a Charollais on our ewes now would give too thin a skin for a Cumbrian upland outdoor lambing.
If the Dutch Texel hadn't been anglicised I would recommend one of them. Small lambs, very active, finer skins so easier lambed, but fast-growing and able to do on grass. However, last time we shopped for a Dutch Texel tup we found them to have been bred to be overlarge, almost indistinguishable from the Texel, so didn't want to risk it.
Someone will be along soon to sing the praises of the Charmoise... :-J
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Another idea would be Ryeland :idea:
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:wave: easycare tup ticks most your boxes and they are not to expensive .
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Another idea would be Ryeland :idea:
We run our Ryeland tup with the girls for most the year and are usually together at lambing. Definitely docile. Hardy and seem to keep weight on by just thinking about food!!
Very easy lambing, but slower growing lambs. Very tasty though!
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http://wensleydale-sheep.com/ (http://wensleydale-sheep.com/) if you want to keep it local.
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I use a southdown tup on cheviot mules achieving U3L when slaughtered :thumbsup:
No lambing problems and fast growing.
I've sold several tups to a farmer with a thousand Scotch mules lambing outdoors who was fed up with Continental sired lambs dying from exposure. A Down crossbreed should be hardy (have you ever been up on the South Downs when there's a gale blowing off the English Channel?), finish off grass and have a good carcase. We cross ours with Badger Face.
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Having moved from Exmoor to Northumberland and then Cumbria, I can state categorically that for any weather you can cite 'down South', what we get up here is of a different order. We lamb 250 ewes outdoors on severely disadvantaged Cumbrian upland every year, in March mainly, all or nearly all to continental tups. Yes we would bring in a lambing ewe on an evil night, and yes we jacket newborns if the weather is vile. But if the ewes are bred for it, and there's shelter for the lambs - reshes are great! - and the ewes are fed sufficiently to have plenty of colostrum, then there's no reason an appropriately-bred continental tup shouldn't sire perfectly hardy lambs.
Which is not to say I wouldn't be very interested to try a Downs tup one year, if I could get BH to agree!
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Oh the choices are endless!
Thank you for all your imputs: I've got plenty to ruminate on now. It'll probably boil down to whatever is conveniently close and affordable (I wonder just how much those delicious Border Leicesters just up the road are.. :innocent:) come the time, but living in sheep country, that probably won't narrow it down much either!
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If you can do slower-growing on grass then Cheviot or other native breed would be very suitable, I'd have thought. I've no personal experience of Cheviot tups, though, as to whether they are docile or not. [member=28984]mowhaugh[/member] might be able to comment.
I don't know what Ellie Stokeld charges for her Border Leicester tup lambs, but they don't send anything away fat, so she must have some to sell that aren't 'top drawer' but would be fine for your job... :innocent:
Like anything, there is a variety, but in general, South Country Cheviots are NOT docile (stone mad!) where North Country Cheviots are a bit quieter. Still think docile might be going a bit far, though!
I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so sorry if I am way off mark here, but we put our draft age cheviots to a Berrichon, this produces ewes which are fairly hardy (live in our fields rather than hill, but still at 700ft and LFA), lamb at about 200% and are outstanding mothers and very milky. The Berrichon tups are very docile.