The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: waterbuffalofarmer on March 19, 2016, 06:17:29 pm
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Right I am absoloutely fuming! :rant: One of my lambs has been snatched by a fox sometime during the night, he was strong and healthy and yet he was still snatched. I went out to check them last thing last night before I went to sleep and they where all there and fine, I come this morning and he is missing, I scour the area and discover blood patches and bits of meat. I think it is time to 1 invest in a shotgun or 2 get in the fox hunters. Does anyone know of a good fox hunter in Ceredigion? For now I am bringing them into a building and there they will remain until further notice.
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Could be a badger.
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could be, but one of my neighbours saw a fox hanging around, today. I have brought them in and have been going mad trying to build them a pen away from other animals, mainly newborn calves as I don't trust the calves at all and the lambs are only small. Managed to build a pen and need to patch up a few things before putting them in. :relief:
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has anyone else had fox problems this year? I know last year was terrible for fox problems.
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No good advice WBF, but sorry to hear that, must be horrible :hug:
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We are having to keep all our lambs in a stable this year as we have seen a dog fox running round the sheep fields. We are trying a fox trap at the moment, as we live in the middle of a residential area.
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Sorry to hear that WBF. can anyone tell me how long lambs remain vulnerable to foxes, what sort of size do they need to be before they are "safe"?
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Does the fox take lambs when the ewes lamb in june ? Know they are about just want to be prepared :sheep:
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Do you have a local hunt?
Here they come around fairly regularly and you can ask them to come if you've seen foxes about.
One of the local farmers comes and collect donations each year for their upkeep.
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No sadly we don't. Out here its mostly hill farmers with cattle and sheep. I have a neighbour who shoots them. I was told that the best thing is to find its earth and they lay in wait and shoot it. Whst does everyone think?
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Once they know where the dining table is they'll keep returning. If the ewes know they're about they'll form a protective ring with the lambs in the middle but that may be too late.
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No sadly we don't. Out here its mostly hill farmers with cattle and sheep. I have a neighbour who shoots them. I was told that the best thing is to find its earth and they lay in wait and shoot it. Whst does everyone think?
Have you asked your neighbour for help shooting the culprits? Foxes are indiscriminate and its only a question of time before he gets hit if he has livestock. Ref your comment of investing in a shotgun it's not quite that easy. Luckily... Another way to get someone to come and deal with them, look up your local gunshops in the yellow pages,Google give them a call as they will know someone more than happy to come and do the deed.. this time of year it will most proberly be a vixen with cubs so she will be back tonight as sly as a fox.
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Sorry to hear about this WBF. The first year I lambed, and because mine were so previous (half a dozen lambs) a local farmer told me to keep the lambs in for the first week
I saw the local hunt were out here on Thursday but didn't hear any shooting going on.
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Sorry for your loss, I am quite paranoid about foxes, never lost a lamb yet but have had foxes moseying about. As I only have 3_4 ewes lambing these days and even when I had 30_40 I let them out by day and have them in at night until they are quite big. I am lucky to be able to do this but even then have seen a fox in the field in the middle of the day eyeing them up !! At my previous holding my daughter came in late from work ,MN ish and heard the ewes carrying on so went to see and found the ewes had backed the lambs into the yard gateway and circled them ! There were several foxes in the field, presumably a family and she managed to scare them away but not until she was very close to them did they run !! :rant: :gloomy:
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Ours come in by night, but we very very sadly lost a lamb to birds yesterday, Baz devastated, me too, the lamb was fine , newborn, Baz walked away ewe followed, he was checking eater, she must have been thirsty, they turned back around and lamb was attacked. Lamb pts in vets, poor little mite, so yesterday went through twins a and slinky singles and some other randome single tubs, split them, put the twins and slinkies in where the ram lambs were , sold them Wednesday, then brought the group that lost the lamb down at dusk last night, so everyone is now in front of the house. No grass but endless haylage spotlights. I ll be darned if we gonna loose any to bloody fox, badger or bird.
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so sorry to hear about that Hellybee, was it crows by any chance? another darned animal. Thanks [member=27351]verdifish[/member] I will definitely try that. My neighbor does keep a shotgun and an air rifle, I have had him shoot crows on my holding and rabbits too, so I will definitely ask him for assistance. I mananged to bring them in with help from one of my brothers and they will hopefully stay in until they're a week old. The one who lost one of her lambs has too much milk for one, even for two lambs, so I have had to milk her out to relieve her, busy days ahead!
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He's said magpie.
He s bought those whizzy pumpkin shape scarers to deter them, but everyone being so close to the house now I touch wood think we ll be ok.
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Had the city do-gooders not banned foxhunting and given the general public the right to roam (ignore rights of way). Had ageing has been rock stars not raised the profile of the sweet lovely badger, had Bill Oddie had found another hobby !!
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Hi Whereabouts are you in Ceredigion? I may be able to put you in touch with a local guy that will sort this out for you once and for all
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We have no trouble with foxes, they walk through the field and the ewes take no notice, so obviously don't feel there is any threat. Stray dogs, on the other hand, is quite a different matter. Being scavengers, foxes will clear up afterbirth and still births, but I have never witnessed an attack. If I actually saw it, as opposed to making assumptions, then I might reconsider, but the foxes here seem content with easier prey. There are plentiful rabbits, and no shortage of rats in the dykes.
I don't know if it makes any difference, but my sheep have good horns and know how to use them. The ram is in with the ewes all year, and is very protective.
I don't pretend to know all the answers, but would assume that over the generations they would have evolved some form of defense when kept as naturally as possible. Although dogs are something they would not have had time to develop a strategy against.
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Timothy5 I hope it remains that way. All animals have defense mechanisms but at the same time the meat eaters have also got pretty good mechanisms in place too. If they come for after births and still births (which wouldn't you remove?) then you are just encouraging them onto your land are you not?
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All the afterbirths where cleaned up by the ewes and the lambs where over a day old. I really don't understand it, but there isn't much food around atm the rabbits are only just starting to emerge. I have the ram in with them but he has taken himself to the other side of the field when any lambs arrive. I think what may have happened was one of the lambs was probably lying down away from the mother and the fox came, but they where all in perfect health and getting stronger so could it be a dog from another farm? There where no remains of wool, only 3 blood patches with bits of bloody flesh and a trail of blood leading under a fence. I brought all the ewes in with their lambs, until the lambs are strong enough and then I am putting them at the other end of the farm closer to the house, I really hope this works!
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All the afterbirths where cleaned up by the ewes and the lambs where over a day old. I really don't understand it, but there isn't much food around atm the rabbits are only just starting to emerge. I have the ram in with them but he has taken himself to the other side of the field when any lambs arrive. I think what may have happened was one of the lambs was probably lying down away from the mother and the fox came, but they where all in perfect health and getting stronger so could it be a dog from another farm? There where no remains of wool, only 3 blood patches with bits of bloody flesh and a trail of blood leading under a fence. I brought all the ewes in with their lambs, until the lambs are strong enough and then I am putting them at the other end of the farm closer to the house, I really hope this works!
So it could be a badger!
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Yea it could be verdifish. Apparently there is a nest of them just off my land which are monitored, but not by me ;D wouldn't a badger leave behind bits of it though?
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Yea it could be verdifish. Apparently there is a nest of them just off my land which are monitored, but not by me ;D wouldn't a badger leave behind bits of it though?
Badgers will often drag a living lamb of back to its sett and consume there. So no evidence other than blood spots where the badgers has gripped the lamb in the 1St place. Badgers have an extremely strong bite.
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Get yourself a HUMANE fox trap. I say humane as that way if anything else wanders into it you can release it unharmed. Once you have caught fox you can then shoot it with a clean shot.
You could also invest in a Trail Cam and watch what happens in the area overnight, or put up some cctv.
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Harmony, much as I might like to, I cannot be present 24/7. If a lamb is stillborn in the night, I may not see it right away. If it is there in the morning, I would naturally remove it.
As I say, I don't know all the answers, I have only been keeping sheep for 35 years, so no doubt I still have much to learn, but I can honestly say that I have NEVER lost a lamb to a fox, nor a badger , for that matter.
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I think there are two types of foxes - ones who hunt and ones who scavenge - and it depends where you live as to which ones you get unfortunately. Equally sheep come with varying degrees of protectiveness/alertness - some are dead dosey and forget where they left their lambs and others know precisely where they are at all times and keep a constant eye out. Some will do a creche thing, sharing the guard duties between the mums so that others can sleep.
If you have foxes that you need to deal with then you need to be dealing with them before lambing/cubbing time - i.e. Jan & Feb. By now they probably have cubs and that gives the gun more of a task to find and deal with them too, and the mums will be more inclined to hunt rather than scavenge when they have more mouths to feed.
Having rams in with the ewes is a good idea I think, assuming they don't interfere with the lambing process. If you have a good one he'll do a good job of keeping any menaces away.
As an aside - two white sheep from my neighbours broke into my field this weekend ... and my black sheep went a bit mental, you'd have thought a wolf or something had broken in, they are keeping in a really tight bunch with a constant eye on the invaders. Quite funny/interesting really (if it wasn't so annoying)!
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Timothy5 no-one can be there 24/7 so how do you know for certain a lamb was stillborn and cleaned up by foxes or badgers or that it wasn't killed and taken if it is gone when you go?
And foxes who take hens certainly aren't scavenging dead birds.
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I don't wish to get involved in a pointless argument, but I will say that I have reared all the lambs that were expected.
As for the hens, I consider it my responsibility if I wish to keep birds, to house them securely. It is not the responsibility of a predator to pass up an easy meal.
In the past when a farmer did not get as many lambs as he would have liked, he might ask why. It has ever been too easy to point to a dead fox, and say, ''I got the culprit for you, Boss.''
I do not permit the hunt, or any guns on my land, any fool can destroy something, and NO, I am not a townie, but a countryman born and bred, our family have farmed since before the 1600s.
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I wasn't looking for an argument. Merely asking how you knew. Lucky you if in 35 years you have had such good lambing times and long may it continue. Its what we all would like and unfortunately some of us do have losses to foxes and badgers.
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Here is an interesting story..... Before I started lambing up at the farm I lambed in some rented fields, this was before I was given the chance to rent the farm as someone else was renting it from my landlord/landladies and they fell out so I was offered it ;D I was lambing in rented fields a few miles away, i checked them at least 3 times daily, but never had a lot of lambs; When I was there one day I saw a family of foxes, mother suckling babies in broad daylight. A few days after that I found fox hunters on my land, employed by the neighbour I think, so I willingly let them hunt the fox down, after that a few more lambs. A few years ago I started lambing up at the farm and was dually surprised at the amount of twins, triplets and singles I was getting, profits went up and all was hunky dory for a while. We don't tend to have many problems at all now by fox or badger, until now that is, so I may have to deal with it if it is a fox; According to the law badger hunting is illegal, so no go there am afraid. Tell me is it a different matter if you catch it with a lamb? Not that I have seen a single badger since I moved here, although I know neighbours and family which have seen them.
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As observed for many years. Lots of rabbits one year, lots of foxes the next but shortage of rabbits in that same year. Basic natural cycle. If they start feeding off lambs(and an over abundance of pheasants for that matter) it makes sense for a population overload of foxes every year. My point is culling/thinning IS necessary in problem areas.
Same with the badger population particularly around here in the Cotswolds. Far too many large badger setts in a small area. These things are very territorial and do not encroach on other badgers areas/patches very often. Hence they will feed on whatever is in their territory to survive.
If the foxes are clearing up afterbirth and the likes surely this carries a high risk of sheep related diseases being spread over wide areas?
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I've had lambs disappear (mine lamb outside) and found some dead in the field with their necks eaten. I've also had lambs disappear from a stable next to the house! I have a badger sett in my hedge and also there are numerous foxes, but didn't know for sure what it was that was killing/taking the lambs. I even thought it might be dogs.
Then one bad spring I had brought some ewes into a large stable next to the house. One had triplets, the next morning I found her with only two - I knew something had to be taking the lambs. I looked out my bedroom window the following morning, and saw a large fox sitting right in the open stable doorway (which is literally almost under my window) - couldn't believe the audacity of it! I ran outside and the fox just trotted to about 50 yards away, then sat and looked at me - it didn't even seem bothered.
At least I have an answer to who the culprit is >:(