The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: ladyK on March 10, 2016, 09:11:50 pm
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This morning I noticed one of my Soay gimmers lying down more than usual, but she kept close to the flock, came to the trough, and looked normal otherwise so I just made a mental note. This afternoon she was unsteady on her legs, stumbling sideways.
Definitely not right and freaked me out. (She is due to lamb in 5 weeks or so, she shouldn't be pregnant but that's a long story).
Put her in the shed, and called the vet. Vet came out an hour later - by then she was unable to stand at all (front legs giving in) and craning her neck in an odd way, but eating quite happily.
The examination didn't show anything obvious, rumen working ok, temp ok, no other symptoms the vet noted (the neck craning was only temporary it seems).
Suspected calcium deficiency or listeriosis (unlikely as they don't have access to any silage). She had injections of calcium, ABs and anti inflams.
2 hours later condition is unchanged - not getting up, but eating and drinking.
So it can't be low calcium really as that jab should have immediate effect?
Symptoms are not really consistent with listeriosis either - apart from her falling over sideways there is no other one-sidedness to her condition.
Vet dismissed CCN.
Any other ideas?
Any help much appreciated.
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Could be twin lamb disease also known as ketosis.
Best to get some twin lamb drench into her as good supply of energy.
The fact she's eating and drinking is good, and the antibiotics will be covering possible infections, calcium will be giving her support as she will be using a lot of calcium right now.
I would ask the vet in the morning for some vitamins (combivit or combined b vitamins can cover ccn and generally stimulate appetite and keep energy levels up) and some twin lamb drench - or propylene glycol, which gives instant energy when the lambs are sucking out blood sugars.
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How much additional feed has she had? Given her age and the pregnancy Twin Lamb Disease wuld be my first suspect. Does her breath smell of peardrops? Has she been sitting like a dog or stargazing? If so she needs energy fast and may lose her lambs anyway.
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When the calcium works it's like magic. Sadly, it doesn't always work. Sooner is better than later.
I agree, combivit / b-vits is usually a good adjunct in these circs.
And tld won't hurt, either. :thumbsup:
A pre-lambing lick, where she can reach it, so she can help herself.
It's a very good sign she's eating - and presumeably cudding and pooing.
Our vet produced a good crib sheet for staggers in ewes, I reproduced it here (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=12927.msg136877#msg136877)
:fc: for you - and her
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Thank for all your replies.
I gave her a dose of twin lamb drench while waiting for the vet, just in case and as I had it to hand.
Checked on her again just now, and gave her another dose of twin lamb drench.
She's still the same, lying down, legs totally floppy now, but holding head upright, looking alert, eating and drinking.
I'm concerned that in the 5 hours she's been in the shed she's only pooped once (just now, after I gave her the second glucose drench.) I found at least one source saying low volume of dung and gut reaction after glucose dosing is a sure sign of ketosis...
Not sure if she is developing a bloat or not - she looks a bit wide the way she is lying down, but that could be just me. There are clearly noises in her rumen, and what seems to me regular regurgitating 'impulses' though her body, but no cudding, at least not while I'm watching. Or could it be that she won't cud while I'm in there with her (trying to observe her calmly for some time each time I visit, after dosing etc.)
Should I give her a bicarb/oil/yoghurt drench as well?
I don't have combivit here but I could give her a jab of intravit (vit B12 only)?
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She had all that last night, and more of the same this morning.
Still alert, but now refusing to eat, not good
:(
When I stuff it in her mouth she chews and swallows, so I force fed her 3 flaked peas at a time, she maybe had 2 small handfuls before she started spitting it out. She also reluctantly took a few ivy leaves.
I'm now convinced it is ketosis.
I will keep on with the force feeding (liquidised stuff with a syringe if I must) and twin lamb drench - can she have too much of that? Would smaller doses more often be beneficial (dosage on the bottle says 45ml once or twice, it doesn't say anything about regular dosing).
Waiting for the vet to call back...
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If you wanted to save the ewe I'd ask the vet for a jab to get her to spit the lambs out.....they'd most likely die but if the ewe lived it's not a complete loss. The longer she's down the less likely of a good outcome :(
:fc:
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I am suprised at twin lamb disease in a soay is this something commonly seen with primitives? Alternatively is it too early for grass staggers?
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If she has 5 weeks to go and is down with suspected PT now I would think the most successful outcome for all concerned would be to abort the lamb(s)... especially if she is a gimmer. She may just not be ready to carry a lamb (most likely she has two inside...). If you just try and get her to continue you risk losing her and the lambs... would be different if she only had a week or so to go.
Until then twin lamb drench, I would give some calcium as well (iv rather than sc)) and Combivit injections.
Hope she recovers.
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She got the abortion jab yesterday evening...
It takes effect 36 hours later, so it should happen tomorrow morning (though vet cautioned that it doesn't always work...)
Much weaker today, can't even hold her head up anymore. She had some more calcium from the vet, and I drench with twin lamb solution every 2 hours and getting some porridge with treacle into her. She would still chew some leaves this morning if I suffed it in her mouth, but having none of it this afternoon, so it's syringing all the way now. Holding my breath and keeping up the dosing... :fc:
Anybody here with experience of induced abortion? What should I expect - signs of normal labour?
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Hi There,
If ewe had twin lamb disease then inducing abortion/labour is only way to save ewe. The injection to induce labour will mimic the ordinary birth but in my experience you need to be prepared for the ewe having ring womb, that is incomplete dilation of the cervix which you may need to deal with. Ring womb is whole subject in it self and you may need to seek further veterinary advice.
Best of luck
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You poor thing, and your :sheep:
I'm following this thread with fingers crossed, really hoping that your girl can turn a corner...
Sounds like you're doing everything, and more, than you possibly can for her.. :hug:
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Have gloves and plenty of lube ready, they're likely to be smelly dead and she'll be to weak to push much so will probably need help. Give her more calcium in the morning as this can help if she does have ring womb.
If she survives the birth she should recover....... I'd give her more Metacam when she starts aswell, if you have any.
Poor girl. :fc: :fc: :fc: :fc:
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Any news?
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I've just had one very similar.
Not long off lambing, went off her feet, though still tried to get up for first 2 days. Ate well for 3 days, then lost interest. I suspected listeria ( carried in soil - not necessarily silage) and gave her large doses of LA tetracycline for 3 days. She seemed to buck up after each dose, then declined again next day. I also gave her glucose in her feed. I was pretty sure it wasn't twin lamb, hypocalceamia, or staggers as it didn't match them apart from the fact she could't stand. By day 4 was pretty convinced it was Listeria and she wasn't going to make it so booked to have her shot next day. I stopped the antibiotics but gave her painkiller and she died in the night.
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She didn't make it. :(
Turns out it most probably wasn't twin lamb disease after all. More likely a tumour or obstruction or something else internal.
She didn't really respond to the glucose drenching and syringe feeding (or ABs or vitamins or calcium). The abortion wasn't happening either 40 hours later. She was still alert, even licking my face but very weak and getting bloated. Agreed to take her to the vet for last ditch examination and possible cesarean. I left her for 20 minutes to get the car ready for the trip, when I got back to her she was convulsing and choking violently, fluids coming out her front and back.
Vet is only 10 mins away... the longest 10 minutes ever. She tried to relieve the bloat as a first measure but there was only fluid coming out which shouldn't have been there, and vet concluded there was something very wrong inside, nothing to do with pregnancy or infection.
It was only kind to put her to sleep there and then. I'm berating myself that I could have spared her that last day of suffering.
Devastated. RIP little Bee.
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I have treated circa 100 sheep with listeria over about 35yrs ( only about 10 survived mostly hoggs ) and in all but 1 silage was the cause , this 1 died in the summer and I suspected louping ill so did a pm came back listeriosis , in all cases the main feature was balance on one side this is why its called circling disease :bouquet:sorry
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I bet you're devastated... so sorry to read what you've been through.... I think many of us read these threads, and when the ending is so sad we just all freeze up a little inside, knowing how wretched it'd be if it was happening to us, and one of our flock...
You mustn't beat yourself up over this... we can't know what's going on inside them (for heaven's sake you got the vet out right at the start....).. and how can you not try everything to give a beloved a chance...
I really hope that you have a happy and successful lambing ahead of you, and then you can be entranced by the joys of things going right!
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So sorry to hear about your loss. You tried your very best for your girl. :bouquet:
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Hey. So sorry. You did all you could , and, from my limited knowledge, all you should. I am reading all these posts and learning what I can before I embark on actually being responsible for any sheep. You did what I would hope to do; spotted the problem and got proper help from the vet. You clearly were also very caring.
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Awwwww am so sorry to hear about that. I myself have had a fair share of problems with sheep and it is not nice at all. You clearly cared for her to the best of your ability and that is the most important thing. Dont beat yourself up about it you did the best you could and if you beat yourself up about it, it doesnt do you any good. These things happen and we have to deal with them as they come along as best we can. I hope the rest of lambing is a success, which i am sure it will be :thumbsup: all the best with everything and when you do start lambing could you post some pics, we definately need the cutest lamb competition. ;D