The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: scremmit on February 04, 2016, 08:10:38 am
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Morning team!
My partner and I, after umming and ahhing for a couple of years will be taking the plunge this year and buying our first little flock of sheep...
We have zero experience with sheep so have plenty to learn- starting right now...
We have land (roughly 15 acres split into three fields) available but it belongs to the mother-in-law, who has a CPH in her name so could anybody kindly give us a basic rundown of how to move sheep between A and B.
Have googled, of course, but cannot find anything which directly answers the question of having the number in someone elses name.
Thanks in advance for taking the ime to read what could be the first of many questions!
Scremmit
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Hello, and welcome to TAS. :wave:
The CPH number belongs to the land, and stays with the land even when it's sold, so who owns the land is largely immaterial where sheep are concerned.
You'll probably find this useful reading (and the other articles on the main site):
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/sheep/starting-with-sheep/ (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/sheep/starting-with-sheep/)
When you move sheep from one holding to another, you need to complete a movement licence recording the movement. If you're in England or Wales this is an ARAMS-1 form, in Scotland it's a different form (see the links on the article).
Hope this helps, good luck with your sheep. What breed are you getting?
PS: There are no boring questions, only boring answers. :)
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Hello! Dan's summed it up, really.
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Great stuff! Thanks for the reply!
I have looked into all the form filling stuff but it just niggled me a little that we weren't the land owners, so thanks for clearing that up!
Not sure of the breed yet - our first year will be a gentle one; buying weaned ones and sending them off towards the end of the year.
Our main motivation is to make sure our animals have a good life prior to slaughter so don't want to get involved in breeding / lambing straight away. If Any animal suffered due to my/our inexperience, it would kind of defeat the object!
Am tempted to look into getting ewes with lambs but as I said- not keen to rush into anything. Not like growing spuds is it?!
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I think ewes with lambs at foot are quite a good idea. You get some meat for the freezer and hopefully have some experienced ewes to lambs again the following year and maybe some ewe lambs for the year after.
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Thanks Rosemary- I will consider that.
Now the length of string question!
Whats the ball park figure for buying either weaned lambs or ewes with lambs?
Am in Shropshire, should that be relevant...
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They might be a little difficult to buy now as a lot of people haven't lambed yet; however it depends what breed and where you buy them from. Market prices aren't very good atm, so a ewe with lambs wouldn't be too expensive, if buying from a mart. If of course you buy from a breeder you will pay more, but the advantages of buying from a breeder are far greater than buying from a mart. When you buy direct there is time to talk to the breeder about the said animals and you can also negotiate a price, however at marts unless you have an experienced eye you really dont know what you're buying, trust me I have been there. Hope this helps. By the way are you going with pure or mixed?
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First question - if they're your sheep and you're responsible for their day-to-day care then you're the Keeper, irrespective of the holding.
Second question - we're not that far from you, in N Herefordshire. If you'd like to come and cast your eye over a mixed flock of Southdowns and Badger Face Welsh Mountains you're very welcome - just PM me. No obligation to buy (and I don't presently have any for sale anyway). I'll cheerfully talk sheep to anyone!
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I have ewes with lambs at foot for sale this year but price varies upon the age of the ewe and the sex of the lambs. Also wether they are required to be registered or not. I bought some pedigree Ryelands from highly regarded bloodlines from Shropshire last year and found the prices to be higher than here in Yorkshire.
Suppose it comes down to quality and supply v demand. You will need to obtain a flock number and this will then be linked to your holding number. Animal Health / RPA will explain all this to you.
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Sorry, just to put a spanner in the works.
The CPH doesn't always stay the same, I had a new number when I bought this holding after the previous owner died.
Best to phone and check with the powers that be.
And Wales has only just gone digital for sheep and goat movements, it's EIDCymru for Wales and ARAMS for England only.
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Someone I sold goats to had to get a new CPH nmbr in her name when the holder, her father, had died.
How far apart are the fields?
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Afternoon, team!
Thanks very much for the responses- its nice to know that help is available. I Think im going to become a regular poster!
The fields are all together where Mrs Scremmit has her horses.
Since I first posted we have seen a copy of a form a local farmer filled out who grazed his sheep on Mrs Scremmits mums land for a few months last year, so we know that the CPH is current and all in order.
Also, When Mrs Scremmit picked up some hay the other day, The Hay Man said that he was willing to sell some sheep to us, which is very exciting- We just have to make a decision as to whether we want to get weaned lambs or some ewes with lambs as Rosemary suggested to start our own flock next year.
I dont know what breed they are yet- No deals were done- it was just a chat over tea, and we have other farmers to chat to, but i would assume they were a common breed rather than something fancy like your (rather cross looking) Badger Faced Welsh Mountains!!
Am quite pleased about this as I had reservations buying from an auction, as Waterbuffalofarmer mentioned.
I am now going to drink a coffee and read my new sheep book!
Thank you once agin, folks- I will keep you updated in case you're interested!
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Ha ha,
poor Scremmit ;D and you thought the CPH question flushed out a diverse crop of answers ;)
just wait till you start googling sheep breeds and then put a post on here asking us which breed we recommend and how many per acre :roflanim:
Dont be too bowled over by your farming neighbors offering to sell you some sheep. Everyone who has sheep will be willing to sell you some. The most important thing is to find out why they are for sale? ;D Then are they wormed, vacced, free of foot rot, easy to handle, good mothers.....? Exciting times ahead!
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Sorry, just to put a spanner in the works.
The CPH doesn't always stay the same, I had a new number when I bought this holding after the previous owner died. Best to phone and check with the powers that be.
I agree with the ask rather than assume route. I've had a different number from a previous tenant for some of mine, possibly because he's no longer farming. There's presumably a range of circumstances that trigger a number change, and I'm guessing that one that might affect smallholders particularly is when a farm sells off part of its land and the CPH covers land both retained and sold.
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Someone I sold goats to had to get a new CPH nmbr in her name when the holder, her father, had died.
How far apart are the fields?
Afternoon, team!
Thanks very much for the responses- its nice to know that help is available. I Think im going to become a regular poster!
The fields are all together where Mrs Scremmit has her horses.
sorry misread your post, thinking you were asking about moving sheep round between the fields.
if you are buying locally the farmers will probably deliver and should sort the paperwork out for you, you as receiver will have to send a completed form to the movement centre, address on form.
I wouldn't be too fussy over your first sheep breed, as long as they are healthy, once you've had some for 12 month then you can decide what you like or don't like about them and then look for a suitable breed? Hope you are enjoying your sheep book :-).
If you have the time for feeding have you thought about cade (orphan) lambs?
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Badger Face looking cross? ..... you haven't seen the newborn lambs! Possibly only second to Greyface Dartmoors when it comes to the cute factor! (Cue many TASers posting photos of adorable lambs.)
I wouldn't start with cade lambs - too many questions about their health and why they're cade in the first place.
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I wouldn't start with cade lambs - too many questions about their health and why they're cade in the first place.
Depends on the source. Don't buy them on t'internet or at mart, no, but if you've made friends with a local farmer/sheepkeeper, and he/she can offer you some that have had a good start, it's a lot of fun. Make sure you get boys, though, and that they're castrated already. If you get girls it's too tempting to keep them on. AMHIK ;)
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I wouldn't start with cade lambs - too many questions about their health and why they're cade in the first place.
Depends on the source. Don't buy them on t'internet or at mart, no, but if you've made friends with a local farmer/sheepkeeper, and he/she can offer you some that have had a good start, it's a lot of fun. Make sure you get boys, though, and that they're castrated already. If you get girls it's too tempting to keep them on. AMHIK ;)
Agree, i got mine from a (relatively ) local farmer, they'very been good friends and support ever since.
Ah -but i did get females, and they did stay :)
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AI wouldn't start with cade lambs - too many questions about their health and why they're cade in the first place.
Depends on the source. Don't buy them on t'internet or at mart, no, but if you've made friends with a local farmer/sheepkeeper, and he/she can offer you some that have had a good start, it's a lot of fun. Make sure you get boys, though, and that they're castrated already. If you get girls it's too tempting to keep them on. AMHIK ;)
Agree, i got mine from a (relatively ) local farmer, they'very been good friends and support ever since.
Ah -but i did get females, and they did stay :)
Same here except I got a mixture from a local farmer of triplets they were, I ended up fattening the males and keeping the females and what good mothers they made too. When I converted to pure Lleyn they had to go, sadly, but they were a joy and brilliant into the bargain. :)
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Afternoon Team!
Its a nice thought, but we wouldnt be able to care for cade lambs. We both work the wrong hours to take on such a commitment...
After a few beers and lots of crisps last night, we decided on about 10 weaned lambs which we would raise and send for slaughter toward the end of year or possibly hold a few back for lambing next year. (Thats a decision we can put off until November time.)
I think its the easiest way into farming sheep, with no lambing or sheering to worry ourselves whilst we are still newbies and we are trying to be careful not to bite off more than we can chew and be running off to our sheep farming friends every ten minutes with questions.
We chose ten as we reckon that thats a cost-effective number without going OTT- It costs the same to secure a field for ten as it does for four, for example and any supplements or medicines etc will produce less waste as they apparently have a short shelf life so we cant keep any for next year....
So now- more reading and a bit of waiting!
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I think that is a brilliant idea, perfect for starting out with sheep. A lot of us on here often recommend starting with slaughter animals first and breeders later, so you can get a feel for what you're doing ( its also a brill opportunity for reading up on everything and talking to sheep keeping people too). I hope all goes well and keep us updated? :thumbsup: