The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Jaq Bee on January 31, 2016, 05:02:56 pm
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What am I doing wrong ?!?! Twin lambs, thirteen days old. Rejected by Mum so being bottle feed. One of them is super noisy, seems to be hungry all the time. Have both fed well on the bottle from the start. Was feeding 350ml 4 times a day but because he never seems settled I am currently feeding 250ml 6 times a day. They have 24/7 access to hay and creep feed. He is driving me bonkers! I bottle fed 3 lambs last year and they all seemed content. I am really at a loss at what to do. Any suggestions?
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What amount is recommended by the milk powder manufacturer? Are you using a premium product, such as Lamlac? Have you checked him for bloat, fully operational anus, etc.? Does he have access to fresh water at all times?
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I'm feeding the recommended amount (350ml 4 times a day from 8-21 days) and am buying a premium product. I'm in the Czech Republic and they don't have Lamlac here. I have used this same product for all my bottle babies, recommended by my Vet and used by most people here. No bloat, pooping just fine. fresh water at all times. His sister seems content. Both are growing well. He has been the same since day one, really, really noisy. As soon as he hears me he starts. I realise he thinks I'm his Mum as she is not with them. They are both super friendly. If I go and sit with them he settles a little (is quieter) but is still trying to get milk from me, sucking on sleeves etc. I just never had a lamb this noisy.
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I think he is hungry. You could try giving him enough to feel really full and see if that settles him. My bottle feds required differing amounts and also different lambs took differing amounts at different times of day. Even siblings that were the same age and size have different appetites. How thick or watery the milk will make a difference too so you could increase the powder to liquid ratio.
They are just a bit young for solids though you are right to start to introduce it. If he was crying for you to warm him and comfort him I dont think he would be constantly trying to feed when you sit with him. I dont feed by the bag instructions I feed by consumption so they get what they want to eat ( within reason ). In normal circumstances they could feed little and often but as bottle fed lambs they have to make one feed last a few hours. So an hour after feeding he may start to feel a little peckish again. The more they grow, the more they eat and vice versa so perhaps hes going to grow into a big strapping ram.
hope he settles soon :thumbsup: [size=78%] [/size]
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Thank you for the advice. My gut feeling tells me he is still hungry so I will increase his feed and see how it goes. The milk is quite thick. They were both quite big born and their Mum is a big sheep, Merino. I was just scared that I would over feed them. He is my first Ram lamb. Her lambs last year were finicky to begin with whereas these have had no problems with feeding from a bottle right away (I milked Mum for 5 days). This is only my second year of raising lambs, I am still learning, therefore I needed some advice from somebody more in the know.
Mum has now gone to a new home where they will utilize her milk and wool. I just didn't have time to milk her and feed them. Thank you once again.
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I know t makes more work, but if you're sure he's hungry I'd give him more feeds not bigger feeds - overfilling the stomach is a prime cause of digestive issues in bottle lambs, if it spills over into the other stomachs they can't digest it and it can cause problems.
You say he calls when he hears you - well, so he should. You're his mummy and he's letting you know where he is. If he's calling all the time, even when you are not about, then that would suggest distress of some kind. Does he sleep?
Can the lambs see and hear other sheep or lambs where they are? If not, can you put them where there are others in sight, sound and smell?
If you have the time, giving him a cuddle when you can, nuzzling him and talking to him, should help to settle him. His mum would do that, and very young lambs do thrive better, in my experience, if you can give them some attention besides just feeding them in the first couple of weeks.
He'll still call, mind ;)
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He is around other sheep. I have a ewe with two lambs a week older than him and his sisters and half sisters from last year. He calls when he hears me or anyone around the barn and sometimes I hear him calling when I am in the house. He hears me opening the door, the wheelbarrow, a car etc and he's off. I go in and give him lots of cuddles, sit on the floor and talk to them both, he is always trying to suckle on some part of me. I have goats ( one with 3 day old kids), pigs, chickens and ducks to take care of as well, Everyone else is content. I can feed him more often during the day but not at night. I am just managing on the few hours I can grab. He does sleep, well, he is quiet at night and doesn't make a sound until I turn the light on to feed them. He does have some silent times during the day, so is probably sleeping then. I am really not sure 100% he is hungry. His belly looks just about right after a feed. Maybe he justs needs more attention. To be honest all my other bottle babies (three) were not vocal like him. They are both getting 1.5 litres a day right now. Should I keep to that, with smaller and more feeds. Or increase his a bit? I don't want to overfeed and cause problems.
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I've had a few very demanding lambs in my time ;)
One was called Violet Elizabeth - she'd scream and scream and scream until (we) were sick!
Another is Guy - even as as adult, a friend has remarked, with some understatement, "Guy likes the sound of his own voice."
If he's getting sleep, and isn't thin or gaunt, I'd just assume he's an attention-seeker and learn to live with the noise. If he hasn't as much flesh covering him as his sister, then he needs more food.
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Oh, that is good to know!
I think because I am so tired it plays on me more. His noise just makes my head want to explode.
I have a kitty who constantly wants attention, Patchy, aka Moaning Myrtle.
I wasn't sure that sheep could be attention seekers as I have never had one this bad before. Now I know they exist I will not worry so much about underfeeding him and see how it goes today. I might ask a couple of the local children if they can come sit and 'play' with him after school too. They come most days when I have babies but they seem to like to spend time with the goat kids more.
To me, he looks adequately filled up. But today I might give him 50ml extra a feed, just to see if that is the problem.
In a few weeks I will be able to laugh about this 'noisy little minx' :D :sheep:
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You're his Mama and he wants the reassurance of knowing where you are and reassurance also comes in liquid form. Once he starts nibbling at hay and creep feed it may well settle him down.
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I had a lamb once who had panic attacks, the reason for this was because his mother had, had a difficult lambing; 3 lambs and 2 where dead, I had to pull them out of her when I went to check the sheep first thing (about 3 years ago I think it was?) and he was the last one. I had to bring him up myself as the ewe couldn't rear him, when he woke up after being asleep he would have a panic attack, so I had to hold him close and talk to him softly and he always calmed down and went back to sleep. Needless to say he grew up healthy and strong and stopped having the panic attacks ( he stopped having them when he was 3 months old, as he saw me as mum) :) The point to this story is that lambs are little babies which all need loving care and attention, whenever I have lambs come along I sit with them after feeding until they fall asleep, talking to them. I always try and make time to spend with them. I suppose I'm a softy at heart ;D Keep up the good work and it always pays off in the end :thumbsup:
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Thanks for all the good advice folks :trophy:
I increased his feed by 50 ml and spent a lot more time with them today (despite other things not getting done, but hey ho, they are only babies for a short time). He is much more settled today. Still the noisiest but not as bad as he has been. :)
I'm sure going to find it hard to let this little guy go.
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Thats great Jaq.
Like waterbuff I tend to stay with them after a feed until they snuggle down to sleep. Do they have a heat source to snuggle upto? Sounds like to extra feed has helped too.
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Today's update.
Between his 6am feed and 10am feed, he slept! Even though I was around the barn feeding and watering all the others. I had to check to see if there was something wrong with him :) During the day he has been a lot quieter. Maybe it's the additional feed or because I am spending more time with him after a feed, not sure, but whatever it is is working. He does seek a lot more attention than his sister. She has a nuzzle for a while and then wanders off. He is kind of like a dog, jumping up, climbing all over me, butting my chin, trying to eat my hair, very active.
Buffy, they don't have a heat lamp but they have a huge cardboard box in their pen that they cuddle up to sleep in, filled with straw. The pen is also well bedded too.
I am going to have to stop these four hourly feeds soon, well during the night at least. I'm getting pretty run down now through lack of sleep. Any suggestions on how I can do that?
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A pity they don't make a small version of the Shepherdess feeder. If there's good hay available he should start to nibble at it fairly soon. Make sure he can reach a constant source of fresh water, so he doesn't go thirsty. Perhaps you could stretch the gap to six hours then go back to bed for a couple of hours, depending on which end of the night you find it easiest to fall back to sleep? Can you nap during the day?
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You could do last feed at 12.30 night and then feed at 7.30 to 8 am. Put down some sweet hay for them to mouth and a little bucket of lamblac, we use those little black paint kettles that they sell in b and q and the likes. A little bit of creep too, they not likely to eat it but will investigate lol
What his neck like if the fold down the throat is filling out he's gaining nicely, does he stretch when he get s up after sleep, always a good guide of how content they are. I find some are particularly swchy (want mama all the time) , and will nudge and make a right fuss. When they're on the bottle I let them feed til theyre belly looks nicely round then we stop. I'd rather under do it a bit than over load.
We still got last years mollies (Pembs form of Cade lol) mooching about. They're as noisy and spoilt as ever, was told last week isn't it about time you weaned those lambs off you, ahhhh, it's gonna break they're heart having to join a flock, mine too, but must prepare for next lot. Last thing you want is to take a lamb off a mama, but if we need to, I'm there with open arms x
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Just got in from the 10pm feed. I normally do another at 2am and then 6am. It's the 2am one that does me in. By the time I get to sleep after the 10pm it's time to get up again.
They have very good hay available at all times, they nibble on it. They have fresh water and creep available at all times. I have seen them nibbling the creep, never seen them drink water though.
They are both gaining nicely and seem much less noisy than a couple of days ago.
Last year the same mum rejected twins and I had to feed them. I milked her until I had to go back to England for an emergency and the lambs went onto a bucket. A friend came and replenished, cleaned it and gave them attention. I did think to put the bucket in at night but I don't feel happy with that. While I am here I want to make sure what they are each getting and want to do it by bottle.
I will explain my situation. I'm here alone, 3 pigs to feed and clean out daily. Four adult goats, one with week old triplets. One three year old ewe with twins, three weeks old. These two lambs, 15 days old. Five ewes from last year. Ducks, chickens and five cats. I can't nap during the day, I have far too much work to do.
What I really need is a straight 6 hours of sleep a night and then I will be fine.
I did have them on 6 hour feeds for a few days but he just wouldn't stop crying, hence changing back to four hour feeds. If I could cut out the 2am I would be in heaven :)
All of my sheep call out when they see me and they are all super friendly, all bucket trained and halter trained. This little one had me completely perplexed as to what I was doing wrong.
Hellybee, you said 12.30 at night and then at 7.30-8 am. That's 7-7 1/2 hours. I think he would scream blue murder :D Maybe I can stretch the night time feed to six hours. At least I will get more sleep than now. I know it's only for a few weeks.
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No advice to add - just wanted to say hang in there. It's exhausting and all consuming isn't it when you're on your own, one is a worry and that's on top of a million and one other tasks which have to be done every day and no one else to do them but you. And the lack of sleep makes everything seem more unmanageable.
He's lucky to have you. Hope you manage to get a decent few hours tonight.
:hug:
Martha R
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Sorry I meant 6.30 am :innocent: , but at least then you ll be putting him down at a relatively normal time, I don't think it's a big leap to push him to six hours as long as he's gaining well and is bouncing, he's sounds fab x
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We are getting there :) I spent the afternoon cleaning the stall next to them and they slept throughout :excited:
Tonight I am going to let them go 6 hours. I had a rough nights sleep last night, less sleep than normal and I have to do it for me.
They are both much more settled (especially him). I spent some time today hand feeding them some creep feed. Figured they have no one else to show them. They are drinking water and nibbling on hay as well.
Thank you to everyone who has given me advice and to Martha for the moral support :bouquet:
Luckily I'm a fairly fit and healthy old girl who doesn't mind hard work, just need some sleep ;D
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Glad it looks like you're on the way back up. I read your posts and was taken back to feeling much the same last summer when caring for a sick piglet on night duties and on my own. The worry and lack of sleep made me feel like a sort of madness was descending! But it passed. As it does.
Glad you're doing ok
Martha
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Glad to hear the little fella is settling down :thumbsup:
When we're lambing, my bottle lambs only get feeds in the night for a few days. After that, they go onto last feed at midnight, morning feed 7 or 7.30am, unless they're really struggling. Like you, I have to get sleep for everyone's sake, so that's the way it has to be.
When I do have lambs that need a nighttime feed, I have them in a dog cage next to the Rayburn, so I don't have to get dressed and go outside, and that makes a big difference. Often, I snooze in my chair until say 2am, give them a feed and then go to bed. I can feed them in my jimjams as soon as I get up, and don't have all the other pets screaming for their breakfast until I'm dressed and go outside.
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Oh goodness me yes get some sleep! I find that very early morning feed / check a killer too. I think he needed that little bit more feed. As you say you are spending more time but it sounds like he is asleep through most of it ;D So I recon its the full tummy thats calming him down. I'm guessing the sleeve sucking and constant nudging has stopped too so I think you have cracked it with that slight increase in milk.
He sounds like a big boy that had a big apatite. Every penny dosen't fill the slott I guess so I tend to go with nature and my instinct rather than going by the book.
I hope he continues to grow more independent.
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Just an update on the Milk Monsters :sheep:
They are on 350ml five times a day, yep I know that is too much (according the the manufacturer they should now be on 500ml twice a day). I feed them at 7, 11, 3, 7 & 11. So I am getting sleep now :excited:
They are not interested in creep feed, eat hardly any hay, probably because they are getting too much milk.
I need to cut them back but it's going to be tough as they still scream every time they see me and even after a feed are trying to get more from my 'imaginary udders'. Seriously I have never known two lambs like them.
I have put them out in the garden with the youngsters from last year, supervised. I'm actually considering penning them with one or two of them just so they can show them the ropes. I look rather funny down on all fours trying to teach them to eat hay :excited: ;D
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Brilliant news. Coming out the other side!
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Glad they're doing well - and that you're getting some sleep! :thumbsup:
It's a good idea to put them with some other lambs to copy, provided they don't get bashed about by lambs much bigger than themselves.
They don't look fat or bloated in your pic, so they clearly need the feed you're giving them.
Thanks for the update :)
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Well done they're indeed a credit to you. One question..... What breed are they?
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Mum is a Merino and Dad a Zwartbles .... hence one white (ram), one black (ewe) :)
The two I am considering putting them in with are their sisters from last year, both bottle babies and both very gentle. I will do it when I have time to spend watching them, probably early next week.
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Love them what beautiful b i g babies x
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Thank you :) They should be big for the amount of milk they put away ;D Just started another 10kg bag!
The photo attached is of their sisters from last year, again, one white, one black.
It's going to break my heart to let him go. I can't eat him after raising him :'( I can't keep him, all my ewes bar one are his sisters and half sisters.
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Why can't you eat him after raising him?
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I don't eat lamb any more, just cant bring myself to.
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Just the thought of eating him after bottle raising him turns my stomach. I wouldn't have a problem if his mother had raised him. You can't buy lamb in the butchers here so I won't have a problem selling the meat. Or selling him for meat. But, at this point I can't even think about sending him to freezer camp for me.
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While I'm still looking after 'my babies', I couldn't think of that, either. But then, when I have them weaned and established on grass and cake, they go off and join the other lambies as they get speaned. BH looks after them then, and by the time they have to go, I can no longer remember who is which - and in fact am more keen that they fetch a good price in the ring so I can disprove BH's oft-repeated saying, "Pets never amount to much". (Which I do every year, and he keeps saying it anyway :rant:)
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Some of ours still know they're name, still bother me for cuddles and a scratch and one even still does the milky nudge when she sees me, they're independent and bold but they still love they're mama :love: And are great mums x
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I only have a very small 'flock' and I know all their names and they all run to me, even the non bottles babies. I am still pretty much a novice keeper. Started just over 3 years ago with two 4 month old ewes. Brought a ram when they were almost two, he didn't do the job so ate him. Brought my Zwartbles ram and he gave me 5 ewes from my two ewes last year. This year one ewe had triplets, one stillborn and the other the 'milk monsters'. Three ewes, one ram.
My Zwartbles was the sweetest boy but suddenly took to ramming me and anything else he could (he had turned two years). He went to freezer camp before Xmas. My Merino ewe had rejected two sets of twins but was a high milk producer and had wonderful wool so I sold her a few days after the babies were born to someone who makes cheese and utilizes the wool.
So I have one threeish year old ewe with twins, the milk monsters and 5 ewes from last year.
Maybe I will change my mind in time, who knows. :thinking:
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We currently have 110 in lamb, six Molly lambs who rule the roost, a cull group, twelve ram lambs that are slowly going off to mart, one exquisite lleyn ram and his retired companion, and two other rams who Pootle around the campfield they're off to mart soon. We are year six lambing. Thats without the 18 welsh ponies and cobs, Will never stop learning.
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Wow Hellybee !! That's a lot of work.
Guess what? They are finally nibbling on hay and eating creep :) :) :) We are getting there :)
I just want to thank all of you for your support and advice. You got me through a very tiring & stressful time. :thumbsup:
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While I'm still looking after 'my babies', I couldn't think of that, either. But then, when I have them weaned and established on grass and cake, they go off and join the other lambies as they get speaned. BH looks after them then, and by the time they have to go, I can no longer remember who is which - and in fact am more keen that they fetch a good price in the ring so I can disprove BH's oft-repeated saying, "Pets never amount to much". (Which I do every year, and he keeps saying it anyway :rant:)
I quite agree sallyinthenorth I do have a strong attachment with them, but I tell myself that in the end they either go to mart or slaughter and when the time comes they're no longer as friendly as they where, due to being with the flock all summer, so it does make it easier. Sometimes the pet ewe lambs make the best mothers. I currently have a pet ewe which is about to lamb for the second time :excited: