The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Womble on January 16, 2016, 10:09:33 pm
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We had our old barn cat Jill put down last week :'( . I say barn cat, but actually she moved into the house at about the same time we did (we were evidently a soft touch compared with the previous tenants).
Of course there's now an empty basket next to the Rayburn, and Mrs Womble has started leaving Cats Protection League browsers open on the computer, so I know what's coming next! ;D
So, can anybody give me some more information on toxoplasmosis and other causes of abortion in sheep that are transmitted by cats? I've tried googling, but just ended up baffled.
My understanding is that an older cat should have built up immunity and hence won't pose a risk to the ewes, but a younger cat could. Does that mean that we should only get an older cat, or is there a test or preventative treatment that a younger cat could have to ensure safety?
Thanks! :thumbsup:
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I asked my vet about toxo as I have a lot of cats wandering my fields all the time: He said I was lucky as it's only a problem when sheep which haven't had previous exposure encounter cats and their excrements for the 1st time - So I didn't have to do anything about it. Presumably the lambs get immunity from their mums or by growing up with it? I don't recall but as the vet said it wasn't a problem I haven't worried about it since.
So no excuse for not getting a cat :) .
Having just re-read your post I realise/remember Toxo's only a problem if the ewe is exposed when pregnant - so they're OK as long as they're exposed before that. And you should just make sure you have enough cats with Toxo to ensure exposure before pregnancy - I think.
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When I moved up here, our vet advised against kittens, as kittens spew out huge quantities of toxo and older cats far less.
We were way out in the wilds up there, so the sheep were only likely to meet up with deposits from our own cats.
Further down, as I am now, one is surrounded by farmers many of whom have an actively regenerating farm cat population and/or who bring in new kittens from time to time. However, I understand that the most likely route for infection is through the cats having used the hay as a toilet, so generally one might think kittens from nearby farms would be unlikely to stray so far or toilet on another cat's territory.
If you and Mrs Womble are happier with an older cat, I'm sure the CPL will be very pleased :). If you really wanted kittens, however - there's always vaccinating the ewes to protect them.
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Our cats are fed outside in the hay store and they sleep there, although they come in the house for a fuss in the evenings. We have never had a problem with them bringing in presents which are always left outside, or messing in the hay. Could it be that they regard it as a food area?
Our vet said the sheep would be fine with adult cats, just keep kittens away until they are a bit older. The benefits of a good mouser :cat: are obvious :thumbsup: .
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We got an older cat in the summer and he lives in the goathouse. I have been told that only young kittens pose a problem, and also if you get a cat well outside the tupping season then the sheep will build up immunity to it.
I have found it quite difficult to get hold of an older true farm cat (one daughter seriously allergic to cats, so no house cat possible), but our boy came via a friend who works at a big farm vet practice and they do get them in some time. Worth speaking to vets as well, you may be able to skip the strict "suitability" test, which we probably would have failed (what with a resident terrier, a small road next to holding etc) with the CDL...
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A lot of people talk about getting the cat outside tupping time, but given that cats bury their poo, surely it is only when they have pooed on the hay that the bugs can reach the livestock? They'll have been pooing on the hay since it was made, and the hay will be getting taken out to the sheep from Christmastime, or whenever you start to feed your sheep.
If you get the cat after lambing, it'll poo on the hay all summer and autumn, and the bugs will be there in the hay that you feed next winter.
Or am I missing something?
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Interesting point Sally and I was just about to ask if I planned to get 2 kittens than should I get them post lambing? Adult cat wouldn't work as I have an adult living in the barn already and feel that kittens would be more readily accepted than another adult (my cat saw the previous feral off)
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Vaccinate your sheep, Linda. And warn your neighbours, so that they can vaccinate theirs too, if they wish.
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We got two kittens (from CPL) in January 2014. In that summer we had a friend staying, who was a vet, and she recommended we vaccinate our ewes in the Autumn.... on the basis that the older ewes would be immune, but the younger ewes, having lambs for the first time, would not have built up immunity. So we vaccinated them all (and then got a dud ram so whole exercise a bit pointless!)....
Vet said risk was from hay, but also we saw our felines using paddock as toilet as well (and not bothering to bury very much - obviously our bad training!). We talked it through with our local vet, who also recommended vaccination. Might be worth a chat with them, explaining the age of your flock etc. and age of cats when lambing (our cats would have been a year plus when tupping....) Let us know what you decide.... and we can all watch and learn!
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I heard a vet advise that its best to havr an old fiesty cat rather than none at all because they will keep away visiting cats. I believe cats get toxo once and after that they will be immune. So when i get around to getting one i plan to get an old feral from the rescue in the theory that they will be immune.
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My cat doesn't bother with burying his poo.... and yes he uses the fields etc... I am pretty sure he doesn't use the hay bales though.
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Well, I always say that the only way to confound a cat is to tell it to be contrary! ::)
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I heard kittens were the problem too.
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Great, thanks for the advice folks :thumbsup:.
Tom, our one remaining cat says he is all the cat a household should ever need anyway, and I agree with him. Meanwhile, Mrs Womble has pointed out that her lap is now vacant for for long periods whilst Tom is out working. We'll give it a few months and will then decide.
So no kittens then! (really don't want to be jabbing sheep if I don't have to). Does anybody know if there is a way of testing prospective cats to make sure they have already been exposed (and hence have immunity)?
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Vaccinate your sheep, Linda. And warn your neighbours, so that they can vaccinate theirs too, if they wish.
... and be prepared to be unpopular as they add another cost to keeping their sheep ....?
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Vaccinate your sheep, Linda. And warn your neighbours, so that they can vaccinate theirs too, if they wish.
... and be prepared to be unpopular as they add another cost to keeping their sheep ....?
Farms have cats. Cats have kittens. It's life.
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One great way to stop cats from cr@pping in your hay is to get your neighbour to spend £15K on an outdoor riding arena. The cats will then think that this is the greatest litter tray the world has ever seen, and will never soil your fields or hay again! :thumbsup:
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Farms have cats. Cats have kittens. It's life.
We didn't replace our cats when they died of old age and now have well baited feed stores, no toxo and lots of wild birds - 17 nest sites within 10 metres of the farmhouse last year.
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So, a while ago, I wrote:
Does anybody know if there is a way of testing prospective cats to make sure they have already been exposed (and hence have immunity)?
I've now found out a bit more. Yes there is indeed a test, but it costs £95 (or £120 to include Felv and FIV feline immunodeficiency tests as well).
So that's quite a dilemma. Say we went to a shelter and found a new adult cat, there's every chance it will already have been exposed to toxoplasma and will hence now not be shedding occysts, so therefore will pose no threat to the sheep. However, is it really worth a hundred quid to find that out? I really don't know :-\.
Maybe we could keep it indoors for six months and force feed it field voles? :)
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Feral kitten solved my dilemma by turning up and insisting on moving in .... and no I wont be warning my neighbour ... came from the feral in his shed anyway!!!
Cats don't have to have kittens ... get them done!!
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I'm sure the vaccine didn't cost that much - £90 maybe - can't remember how many sheep that covered, but if you've a small flock then that might address the issue. Only vaccinate the younger sheep, and enjoy the new kittens!
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Our vet recommended getting only adult cats - neutered of course - and not worrying about it.
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A study carried out in 997 estimated that the UK cat population of approximately 9 million felines brought home in the period 1 April to 31 August that year 95 million prey animals and birds, including 57 million mammals, 27 million birds and 5 million reptiles and amphibians. Funny how only the farming community continues to be blamed for declining numbers in all species ......