The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Introduce yourself => Topic started by: DCBBGB on December 22, 2015, 06:20:57 pm
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Hi all,
I recently moved in to a property with 7 acres of land in South Wales and I must admit I am greatly looking forward to being self sufficient and eventually making money out my holding.
So I thought I would register here and start getting in touch with more experienced smallholders. For now, I just wanted to say hi to everybody and give a very high level overview of what my 2016/2017 plans are:
1) Getting an incubator and breeding Chicken/Turkeys/Geese (my Wife wants to sell Xmas hampers with free range turkeys and geese next year - looking forward to that)
2) Buying a 14ft x 42ft polytunnel - growing any vegetable we want/need + feeding livestock
3) Buying 2 pigs for meat (will start breeding once I am more established)
4) Buying a Dexter cow for milking (try out on making cheese maybe!) and additional cows for meat (once more established)
5) Finally, a cob or 2 as I would love to have a working horse(s) to take care of my grass land instead of buying a tractor...
And that is it...! I'd be happy to know if anybody has done something similar to that extent and if so, if you would recommend doing things in a particular order for specific reasons.
Cheers,
David
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I am on a much smaller scale than you (a large garden) so can't give advice but wanted to say welcome to TAS.
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Hi and welcome to the forum from mid Wales. I'm a water buffalo dairy farmer, so no surprise there :roflanim: it all sounds very exciting and here's me wishing you all the best for the future. If you need help with buying dexters there are some owners of them on here. Shetland cows are also a good breed to keep too :) I think in the long run it may be a good idea to buy a tractor though, putting bales out for animals and cutting fields for hay, fencing, etc, etc. So it may be a good idea to invest in one they're completely invaluable.
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Thank you both for your message.
I must admit that I didn't know much about Shetland cows but they do seem like a good breed to own. I will do some further research on them and try and compare pros and cons for both Dexters and Shetlands. Opinions and views on this are welcome.
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:wave: from North Lincolnshire. We started off with a poly tunnel on our 3 acres to make the best of the glowing season. I would recommend The Polytunnel Book by Joyce Russell
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Welcome to smallholding and to TAS. You are at that wonderful stage of planning and excitement, looking forwards to your new life :farmer:.
The only advice I give to new smallholders is take it slow and don't overstock. I used to dream of keeping a donkey to do the heavy work but I never got one and now I'm glad. A tractor is much easier to care for, very versatile and you can just wind her up in the morning and the job's done. It's easy to think of the romance of you and your cob out in the fields, in the summer sunshine, but reality is a bit more painful. Once you've been there a full year you'll have a better idea of what's what.
Your tunnel will be the same size as ours - it's big enough to grow a lot in but not so huge that ventilation becomes a problem :garden:.
Keep us up to date with your progress
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Hello and welcome. Seven acres isn't thta much land - although it seems like a lot in the early days. I used to loov at our 5 acre field and wonder what I was going to do with it. Now we have three bits of rented land around the area.
Very briefly, pigs areawful hard on teh ground and will turn your grass into a mud bath if it's wet. We have sandy soil here and two weaners pretty much trash their paddock in six months. If you want to breed pigs and rotate them round your 7 acres, I'd guess you'll spend a lot of effort restoring grazing that they have vacated.
It's generally accepted that you have to keep a minimum of two cattle of teh same age - so a cow with calf at foot doesn't count as two. We started with two Shetland heifers in 2010; had two calves in 2012; another two in 2013; three in 2014 (one of the 2014 heifers calved for the first time) - at that time we had a 2012 steer, a 2013 steer and heifer - the numbers build up quite rapidly. Even if we had sold heifer calves at weaning, we'd still have had two cows with calves at foot plus two steers - so four acres of grazing roughly. The rule of thumb for grazing is 1 acre per cow plus one for winter forage. We buy winter forage so that lets us keep more stock. If you outwinter cattle, they will poach the ground and that affects the grass regrowth in the spring. We house the females and winter the bull and steers in a wooded area. We started milking ours last summer - we have Shetlands. If you can't get a cow that's been hand milked, I'd go for a couple fo heifer calves that you can train yourself. I think trying to milk a relatively unhandled suckler cow would be pretty difficult.
Working horses are great, but they will need an acre of grazing each plus winter keep. Unless you are used to horses, training them is a skill. If you're all grass, you aren't likley to be ploughing so it would be harrowing, occasional lime or fertiliser spreading, topping, unless you are going to make your own hay.
This all sounds a bit negative. Try getting hold of a report by the Soil Association on making a living off 10 acres. Makes interesting reading :)
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Welcome! :wave:
As others have said, take it steady, don't try to get everything going at once. And 7 acres sounds loads, but it really isn't. As Rosemary says, allow one to two acres per bovine and per equine - and don't forget to account for grazing for the geese too ;) I don't know about growing birds, but farmers hereabouts reckon 3-5 adult geese need the same amount of grass as a cow! :o
Milking cattle is wonderful - but creates a lot of work and a daily chore. You can make it easier on yourself by keeping the calf on its mum and only removing the calf overnight when you want to milk in the morning, otherwise leaving the calf with mum. And as Rosemary says, it's not kind to have a single cow, even if she has her calf with her (plus you'll need to take calfie off overnight to get some milk for yourself after the first month or so), so you need two cows-and-calves, really.
Breeding pigs is a delight - but everyone will tell you that you need to keep a sow breeding, and they're right. So that means two litters per year per sow - and again, no solo herd animals, so at least two sows. Unless you have built up a good customer base for weaners and/or meat, you will very quickly be overrun with porkers, freezers full of pork, etc. So good idea to start with buying a couple in :thumbsup: - and don't be in a rush to start breeding. Much better to keep buying in weaners and build up your client base until you are sure you have a market for 30-plus porkers per year. Not to mention that I and others have found that pigs outdoors over winter isn't necessarily kindest to the pigs, even the hardy rare breed types, so then you need good winter housing for the sows and half of those growers too.
Ponies are lovely to have about and will love to do some work - but tbh there really isn't a lot they can do on 7 acres which is mainly grazing. So have some and enjoy them by all means - but accept that they are predominantly pets and riding/driving ponies! Two cobs may use up about half your land, depending on the grass. (And again, no solo herd animals.)
Ponies and cattle both may need wintering in, even if they are hardy, in order to protect the ground. So again, you may need to think about winter housing. Also of course forage storage. Silage needs eating up within 4 days, ideally less, so really you need 10 or more cattle-plus-ponies to eat a large bale of silage before it goes off. So you'll mostly be using hay and straw for winter feed, which needs to be stored under cover.
And all those wintering animals..? Means a lot of work. You don't mention whether you are going to be full-time smallholders or would have a 'day job' - but build up slowly until you have experienced the winter workload. ;)
All of which said, now is a real fun time, looking at options, researching, choosing breeds/types. You'll find proponents of every breed and type there is, all telling you why their breed is best - so one piece of advice is go to shows and visit breeders whenever you can, and see which animals you like the look of. You'll be getting up and going out in dreadful conditions to care for them, so start with ones you really like! :D
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Hi and welcome . I have 10 acres and yet to make a profit but the lifestyle is worth having and I think your first 2 points are the right starters, leaving pigs/cattle and equines for later.
Poultry first and veg definitely the way to go. Start small with the birds and grow numbers with the business so you're not left overstocked til your customer base is established. Polytunnel def worth it given poultry and weather. I started with open beds, now raised and netted ones, but a poly would be ideal if it was affordable. Which is usually when you start, but not once you depend on the holding financially!
Try pigs before you commit long term, as you said. Ditto cattle I would say ie go for a couple of steers before milkers at whatever stage you are ready to expand. I'd choose pigs first if you want a piece of ground dug over eg to expand veg/fruit, or cattle if you find there is spare grazing once the birds and veg are on the go.
Equines are more a choice than a business, based on 25 years with Highland pony breeding! If room after the earners are accommodated, go for it, but don't expect the income you'd get from an extra steer or pig. To be successful you need marketable products on limited space which means summer grazing autumn market for large animals and rested land ready each spring.
Good luck and welcome again.
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People don't realise how much grass a goose eats! 6 geese to the acre is about right, mind you the goslings fatten on not much more than grass, a handful of wheat each morning and evening does them plus they are great characters.
So are pigs but you will need good fences and a lot of bought-in feed unless you keep KuneKune which are not a commercial breed but very tasty!
I haven't milked a cow since I was a girl (a brave while ago) so will let others guide you there.
Goats though are ideal for a small amount of grazing but also need Fort Knox-like fencing and bind you to twice daily milking 375 days a year which, if you have no-one to share it with requires a lot of self discipline.
Have you thought about sheep? Lambs fatten on mother's milk and grass which is a consideration if you want a profit. Mind, you will have to pay for a bit of hard feed, hay, worming and shearing for the ewes.
It may seem we are trying to discourage you, we're not, I promise. We've all had the dreams and plans and come up against the reality!
So, welcome to the forum and, as said go slowly and we will all look forward to following your progress over the next year.
Sylvia.
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Thank you all for your messages and believe me, the reason why I have signed up to TAS is to have the "real version" of things. I am conscious that I want to do lots of things.
1st thing about land space. I have 7 acres of grassland and another 2 acres of woodland + "space" that I would not consider grassland (good for turkeys or pigs). The beauty of where I live is that I have a further potential of acquiring more than 50+ extra acres if I need, so at the moment I have a very small portion of what I could have in the future, should I decide to go bigger; however, I'd rather start small and build up overtime.
I will be trying out pigs and cows before breeding as I want to learn about the animals. What is definitely happening in the next 3 months is poultry and polytunnel.
I really appreciate your feedback and I am quite keen on keeping everybody posted on what is going on. I am sure I will need your help on lots of more specific things in the future. (and yes, I acknowledge the fact that everything is so exciting at the moment :) ) Watch this space!
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It all Sounds really exciting :excited: keep us posted on how you get on? All the best :thumbsup:
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I have 7 acres of grassland and another 2 acres of woodland + "space" that I would not consider grassland (good for turkeys or pigs). The beauty of where I live is that I have a further potential of acquiring more than 50+ extra acres if I need, so at the moment I have a very small portion of what I could have in the future, should I decide to go bigger; however, I'd rather start small and build up overtime.
What a brilliant situation! :thumbsup:
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Good luck with everything. I love reading what new members put on and the amazing advice given. I'm the unlucky person who's dream is still in dreamland, but one day hope to get there.
So again good luck :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :chook: :chook: :chook:
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Thank you. I'm sure you'll get there once you have the opportunity. :trophy:
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Firstly, good luck and best wishes!!
It sounds achievable - but the idea is to not make a profit - you have to pay tax on profits. If you think your goning to make some profit - buy a landrover or some new tools that year :)
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Just to be clear... buying capital equipment comes out of your profit. You still get taxed on the profit, but it's delayed - usually spread over 4 years or 10 years depending on the item - by the depreciation on the capital item. You do still have to pay the tax, though - as well as spending the money on the capital purchase. So only do it if the capital item is something from which you will get good use!