The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: poppy on April 20, 2010, 01:58:22 pm
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I went to a domestic fowl centre this morning just to see what ducklings they had and also to look at other breeds. I got my 3 khaki campbells from there last year as ducklings as I struggled to find anywhere else locally with young ducklings. Anyway, I was quite disgusted at the conditions the ducks and geese were kept in. There were also many hens etc but they seemed ok. The ducks and geese looked really depressed and none of them had access to reasonably clean water - they had small tubs which didn't look like they had been cleaned in many weeks, the water was like brown soup. One khaki campbell, which we think was blind as it's eyes were cloudy, was trying to catch the drips from the ballcock valve before it entered the dirty tub. I appreciate it has been a hard winter and some waterfowl are beginning to moult a little but it doesn't justify the depressed looking birds I saw today. They are a world away from my 3 ducks which are chirpy and active.
We also saw the chicks and ducklings inside. There were two small pens which were buzzing with little chicks and ducklings zooming around. All very nice. However, it did seem like they hadn't been checked for a long while as the drinker in one pen was full of shavings, as there was no one about I decided to clear the gutter around the drinker to let the water dispense. As soon as the water came out all the chicks and ducklings fought to get to the water, they must have been very thirsty. There was also a chick which was on the way out.
Should I report this centre? It even has the Quality Assured Attraction sign from the English Tourist Board, but it was far from that. What shocked me most was the lack of water for these waterfowl. Even though my ducks only have a paddling pool , it is cleaned out every other day and they love splashing about in it. It's obvious that this centre is struggling for money but why should the birds be the ones that suffer?
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/4537926646_099c450c06_o.jpg)
Blind duck
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2782/4537298065_b4d17571cf_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4537923494_0a5bb88886_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4537296665_1c32b94276_b.jpg)
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There's moulting and theres neglect and those birds are in a sorry state. I would report them and if they have done nothing wrong their won't be a problem. Good luck.
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I too would say that it needs reporting. Waterfowl do make their water messey and chicks do kick shavings in their water if it's not raised higher enough but it takes mintues to sort and should be done reguarly - hourly if needs be in the case of the chicks. Something needs to be done by the sounds of it.
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I agree. No need for a witch-hunt, but as James says, if they are not at fault and these are just accidental things then there is no harm done. Your photographs are evidence of what you saw, and you can give them to the RSPCA. They won't say who reported them so you should go ahead in my opinion.
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I agree the photos do not paint a very good picture of this place. Having poultry myself, I am well aware of what was clean water this morning, can, by lunchtime, be just a muddy mess. All the same, if this place is open to the public, I would have thought that they would make sure everything was clean, tidy, and plenty of feed and water available.
What I find puzzling, is that you picked up on these issues, and rightly so. But, surely, there have been other visitors who must have seen the birds in the same conditons, so why have they not reported it?
I would definitely report your concerns. At least the place will be visited, and livestock checked. If they find no problems, then all well and good. But personally, it looks to me like something needs to be done.
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What a discraceful way to keep animals.Report them at once to Trading standards office, and post who they are and where they live.
Places like this should be shut down, but you can guess the RSPCA will do sod all about it..Useless bunch of scroungers.
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Looks like an issue needs sorting with the ducks and geese definately. The runs do look inadequate and ill maintained even in the background hen pens. Fences are slack, huts not treated, overused pens etc. Money does look lacking but saying that we have all suffered from extra costs this winter. I would explain your worries to the rspca rather than a full blown complaint. I worked for the rspca for many years and they are not all monsters and do help and advise when well meaning people have found themselves overfaced as this place seems to be.There may be an explanation for the run downess, they may be shutting or moving, taken on too many abandonments, strays and cannot cope. Or they could have been greedy and tried to cram and breed as many birds as poss to get more public through the gates or to sell. Whichever a call to the rspca seems to be in order, they do look as they want putting back on track!
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I know exactly where this is and have concerns too. I voiced them when I went to see the hens they had 'out back' for sale. They were in a terrible state - hadn't been cleaned out for days - their response was that they were short staffed!
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This should be stopped.
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not having seen the place and the conditions myself , I can't comment on what they are like . Pictures can show what things are like to an extent , but there can be valid reasons for some of them . What really bugs me though , is the almost instant cry of 'REPORT THEM' !!! Why is it that that is always the instant action ?. Why not go and ask the people what the reason for the situation is ? if it was a private farm they could well tell you to p*ss off and mind your own business. But as it is open to the public , your questions would seem only fair . They may well have valid reasons that aren't at first obvious. They may just need a bit of a hand , why not try offering help instead of reporting them ? This may read as though I am having a go ... I am not ... but instant cries of report them does p*ss me off somewhat.
Once reported it can be on their record for ever more , and as I say , there MAY , be valid reasons for the situation .
If someone is really concerned about the well being of animals , why not ask the people that own them what is the problem , if there is one ? . If you are then told to p*ss off , then you may have no option but to go another route ie report , if you are sure animals are at risk or are suffering .
Can everyone say without any fear of contradiction, that their animals and their pens are perfect at ALL times ? Is it not so that people always seem to turn up and see everyting at it's worst ?
How would you feel if they reported you for something that is not what it may have seemed ?
One thing I can't stand is anonymous reporting ....if something is up someones nose , why can't they stand up with a bit of backbone and say something , instead of creeping round the back door and snidely reporting it .
This is not said to deliberately stir sh*te , but it is just my opinion , maybe it is wrong but hey ho there you go ...
cheers
Russ
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definitley agree, the birds cant speak for themselves so you have to do it for them ;) Like the others said there is no harm in expressing your concerns is there?
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Thank you all for your advice. Being a livestock farmers daughter I am aware that things aren't going to look rosey all of the time. I just have 'pet' waterfowl which is why I wanted some advice on what I should do, as I do not want to stick my nose in where it is not wanted. I only took my camera as we thought there maybe some housing or pen ideas which we could use for our khaki campbells especially if we expand from 3!
At the end of the day it's the welfare of the animals which is my greatest concern. We are going to voice our concerns with the people running the centre. However, the place was in a similar state a year ago, we haven't been there in summer though so whether things look any healthier I'm not sure.
We have battled over the winter with snow, ice and then mud so we know it isn't easy with waterfowl. The birds body language said a lot though when we visited today. As I said previously, they were a world apart from my ducks who are full of the joys of spring!
Hopefully things will work out for the best for all concerned. Farming on any level is tough and I wouldn't unnecessarily stick my oar in where it wasn't wanted.
Thanks again for the advice :-\
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those pictures look very familiar to somewhere close to my home (2 miles away) and If I'm right its the same place that was reported to the RSPCA not long ago due to rabbits being kept in squalor, chicks pecking each other to death in a children's play area and a number of dead birds lying still in the runs.
if I'm right there is a cafe and shop at the front and the postcode would start with a W?
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That's the one I'm thinking of Plums :-[.
It's a shame - it could be so lovely if it was well managed and the birds looked after properly.
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a terrible shame. I bought quite a few of my chickens there and the staff are very knowledgable and helpful but on a bad day the apparant neglect is very upsetting, especially for child visitors (after all it is targetting family days out)
I know the rspca were contacted and this was prompted by a member of staff saying "I'm off home now, its been so busy I've not fed half the animals but they can wait until tomorrow..."
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Yes it is Plums. Why is it still going on though? Lots of questions to be answered.
We have a lot of legislation in place in Britain for animal welfare for good reason. It may make our produce a bit more expensive but at least we know what conditions it has been raised in. We also need a government that understands the countryside!
Anyway, getting a bit carried away now!
;)
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If the RSPCA have been involved, its usual for them to keep visiting the place to check conditions are better. Maybe they are still checking.
So long as the animals, and birds have adequate water, food, and shelter, I don't think the RSPCA can do much.
I do think it is easy to jump to conclusions based on what you see, and assume is neglect. I always think, when I see animals in a situation that does not look perfect. There could be a reason that the pigs have no water, they have probably knocked it over ......or the ponies have no hay ......well, they have already eaten it!!
I suppose there is no reason not to approach the people who run the place, and mention on or two things, and see what the reaction is. If its negative, or they do not seem to care, then maybe involving the RSPCA is the only option.
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I went to cotwolds farm park the other day (the one on countryfile) and was really upset to see that the rabbits in the petting barn had no water. several cages of bunnies without water that is. it was a hot day and my children were plastered in sun cream which made me more concerned about the rabbits welfare. we shouldnt 'have to point it out to staff at this places surely? before we left for our day out I had made sure that my 3 rabbits, 2 gpigs, 11 chickens and 4 cats had been fed and had lots of water! and I don't have staff to do that!! I think that what I am saying is that it seems to happen at lots of places where you would least expect it >:(
the fowl place in question has a team of adults with learning difficulties now that come and clean the small animals out, they are from a centre and i think they gain a lot from it and hopefully it allows the trust staff to get on with the other jobs.
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Anyone that put animals out there as an attraction should provide their animals with some of the best conditions there are, in my opinion. Realistically these animals are "working" for their keep and so should be rewarded with the basics; clean living conditions, water, shelter and food. I have told the story before that 2 years ago we rescued 2 old goats that were really in an appauling condition when they arrived and I worried that someone would report me. However, I knew that my vets know me and my animals very well and know the conditions that I keep them and are more than satisfied. The vet was called out moments after Rosie and Toggi arrived and I expressed my fears and I was assured that I had nothing to worry about. I am also friends with Fife councils Animal Welfare Officer and she comes here to see "well looked after" animals after a hellish day at work.
Yes ocasionally there can be a day when you should really clean the ducks bed out but put it off another day but on this topic alone there are more than 1 person expressed concerns about the same place. I guess what I am sayung is that if your animals are on show you have to go that extra mile to look after them, having the odd scruffy hen or goose at moulting season is fair enough but the animals in these pictures look beyond that.
Your turn Russ... :)
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Hopeing life gets better for the birds that are kept at this place isn't going to change the way the people that own it look after them.
They are suffering from neglect and if you just walk away and allow it to carry on what does that say about you.
I have 50 pens of birds here and none of them are in need of fresh water,food or vermin free houseing.
The RSPCA are a dog with no teeth and a waste of a phone call. Get trading standards involved and sort this bunch of lazy bastards out.
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lol... I think I said all I should say before really ...lol . No , it is just the instant leap to report these days that occurs without any thought sometimes . I know there are times when something needs to be reported , but if people have seen this situation a year ago or more , why didn't they walk up and ask why things were the way they were THEN ?
People can be quick enough to get on the phone and make anonymous calls about others , why can't they use their mouth and ask face to face and see what is wrong ?.
It is just the sly backhanded method I object to .
If something is up my nose I say so ... straight out . I then get the explanation and can make any judgment from there on .
I realise that there are places that don't look after animals as they should be ... walk around god knows how many intensive pig farms and see !!! , but front up people ... thats all I am saying .... if something is wrong with a situation ASK WHY !!! find out the FACTS see if anything can be done and make a decision from there... simple really .
There now I have put the world to rights .... ::) ;D
cheers
Russ
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i have to agree with rusty. if it was me i would much prefer a person asking why something is the way it is than running off to the welfare agencies. yes there may be need to report them . but a question comes to mind. if they were that bad last year why did you go back. i would also not buy stock from somewhere that there welfare was not looked after.
personally a goose or two thats ill does not mean the whole is at fault. but they should be issolated. and not on display.
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I went to the centre a year ago to purchase my first waterfowl. There are very few places around here which sell young ducklings. Being new to keeping birds it was not for me to judge the place as I had zero experience then and the birds did not appear to be suffering.
On my return, a year on, I have experience and knowledge of keeping waterfowl. I have made a judgement of the place now and feel it is unfair and to keep waterfowl in such conditions.
No one has mentioned anything about reporting the centre behind their backs. I visited the centre yesterday morning and have come away from the place without saying anything to them so I can could get advice on what I had seen. I have not rushed into any 'reporting' or jeopardised their business.
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I visit a very large animal sanctuary, and will be there again for the open day on Sunday. The sanctuary is open every day, you can walk round, peer in the pens, stables etc. And the fields. They do not hide anything. I can honestly say, in all the years I have been going there, that I have never seen an animal in a poor state, without food or water. They always have access to hay, the beds in the stables are in my view, more than is adequate!! If there is an animal that has just arrived, there is usually an explanation as to its curcumstances, why its so thin etc. which is a help to visitors who may question.
There are ponies, donkeys, goats, ferrets, rabbits, dogs and cats, and a lot of each. The place has staff, but also volunteers, and they have to be commended on the cleanliness of the place, and conditon of the animals.
There is an old goat, who is 18. He suffers badly from arthritis, which is explained on the front of his pen. I always stop to make a fuss of him, and he does look a bit worse for wear, but has everything he needs including a little rug. Oh, and a visitor has knitted him some stripy socks. He ate the first pair, so has replacements!!!!
I think like anywhere, there are good and bad places. To be honest, as someone who has a lot of animals, I myself find it hard sometimes to keep up housekeeping standards. My main priority is everyone is fed and watered, and on their feet. The fact that there may be straw flying round the yard, and some piles of poo here and there.....well, yes, there is. But I only have so many hours in the day. Most people who come for eggs etc. say how well my animals look, maybe they do notice things are not perfect, but no one has said so ....yet. If they do, I will explain why of course.
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Are we talking about The Domestic Fowl Trust at Honeybourne.
This place was the subject of a very large thred posted in the Practical Poultry website about 2 years ago.It was supposedly a disgusting state of affairs and had been for a while due to 'ill health' on the part of the owners. Not long afterwards I read that they had picked up a grant of thousands of £'s to put up a visitor center.
If it is the same place why hasn't someone done anything about it?
Personally I would like to birch anyone mistreating animals and ban them from ever owning any again.
Can you imagine being an animal in that place and waking up every morning and having to endure another day living like that.
It's not just a welfair issue, it's a place that sells birds and these birds are spreading god alone knows what viruses around the country. >:(
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its where I bought my birds - I've been lucky by the sounds of it.
didn't realise about the huge grant. or about the issues raised 2 years ago. to be honest I thought things seemed better when I went there over easter with the children. I have to admit to not looking closely at the duck areas though as we kind of aimed straight at the ponies, goats etc at the back and then the ball pit ::)
I'll take my toddler there friday and have a better look.