The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: ladyK on November 21, 2015, 10:27:34 am
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I'm in total despair over a pink eye epidemic going around my Soay flock for weeks.
It seems of have come in with our new ram and it's been going around and around for over 4 weeks now.
The vet has been twice, prescribed AlamycinLA shots and Opticlox - but says there is not much else that can be done. I've been going around on twice daily treatment rounds for weeks now (all that in the worse of storms, of course) but just can't get it under control.
When first affected they seem to recover with the AB shot, but then it comes back to hit the same sheep, and with a vengeance. The ointment seems to have zero effect.
3 ewes now have both eyes badly affected (eyes cloudy and ulcerated and they are blind, and they look miserable, just about still eating) and all others in that field are also affected, to various degrees. The only one who recovered without much help and has not relapsed is the ram. This week it's spread to my other field (across the road!!) I have taken care to always wash my hands but I only have one pair of wellies! (though I didn't think it would spread that way?!)
I have tried supportive treatment with cod liver oil and vitamins as well, but I just can't see I'm getting anywhere and I'm really despairing!! I've read through many of the pink eye posts on here, and some seem to suggest it is self limiting, but if animals are so badly affected surely I can't just let it run its cause? :tired: :(
Anything else I can do??
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Oh how awful LadyK. I've had it run through my flock before, again brought in by a ram, so I now keep a closed flock, and quarantine any sheep brought in, for four full weeks.
Pink eye can come in with an infected animal so it sounds as if your tup brought it with him. To animals not previously exposed, it will affect the whole flock, but should give resistance for the future.
It is spread by things such as sheep feeding from a trough, where they rub against eachother, as well as by transference from the shepherds clothes or hands. Lots of other ways I'm sure.
My worst affected animal was also a Soay ewe. She was completely blind, with clouded eyes and scarring on the cornea. It took a long time, but she eventually recovered fully, with no long term scarring (and she was a total pain to catch).
We used antiBs (LA so injected every 3 days) plus Orbenin eye ointment as often as possible, at least twice a day (I see from the instructions on NOAH that you should use 1/4 tube per eye, once only, but may be repeated after a few days. I've never used quite that much) The Orbenin is good and by pulling forward the lower lid, you can get a good bit of it right into the eye, so it spreads well.
There is also a rather horrible technique where the AntiB is injected directly into the eyelid. Some people swear by this method, so maybe ask your vet.
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We once had a virulent strain of pink eye, when no sooner had one ewe been cured by way of antibiotic injection, then another got it, and so it went on. We sought advice from friends and what worked for us was injecting the whole flock with LA antibiotic, and repeating this after 5 days. We had no more outbreaks after this. It is expensive to do if you have a lot of sheep, and it seems excessive to inject healthy animals, but it was worth it for us.
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can I ask????? Are goats able to contract this disease?
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can I ask????? Are goats able to contract this disease?
Of course, but I haven't seen it (yet).
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Opticlox wouldn't work.
Alamycin would but often the injection is insufficient alone.
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Thanks everyone!
I have tried the consecutive injections of AlamycinLA whenever I see the first sign of affection (squinty eyes), and it seems to help initially but then the infection comes back worse, despite the second jab. The worse 3 girls have now had 4 jabs of the stuff and it doesn't seem to reverse the progress of it in any way, so not sure it would help any more if I jabbed the whole flock?
Opticlox wouldn't work.
But why would the vet prescribe it then?! They sold it to me after examining the first badly affected sheep ???
I agree though that it hasn't made any difference.
I just checked - Orbenin and Opticlox seem to have the same active ingredient, cloxacillin (16.67% w/w and 16.7% w/w respectively) so how do they act differently? Or am I missing something?
Alamycin would but often the injection is insufficient alone.
So what should I add to the mix?
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Opticlox wouldn't work.
Alamycin would but often the injection is insufficient alone.
What do you think of the injection into the lower eyelid Me?
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<<< I just checked - Orbenin and Opticlox seem to have the same active ingredient, cloxacillin (16.67% w/w and 16.7% w/w respectively) so how do they act differently? Or am I missing something? >>>
I've not used opticlox - what presentation does it come in? Orbenin is a thick white ointment, which stays on the eye well. It does work - we would usually use just that, and not the AntiB, unless the condition persisted.
Got this from chinchillavet.com.au
Treatment regimes:
1.Cloxacillin based eye ointments such as Orbenin (Pfizer) or Opticlox (Norbook). It is important to treat both eyes and treat the good eye first to reduce cross contamination. If the tube is to be used in another animal the dispensing area should be cleaned with an antiseptic. Ideally the animal should be treated twice 48 hours apart and then apply an eye patch.
2.Inject into the bulbar conjunctiva of the top eyelid an antibiotic, short acting pencillin or an oxytetracycline. This may or may not be given in conjunction with an anti-inflammatory agent. Operators using this procedure will need training and advice from their local veterinarian. Only one shot is generally needed and can be used in combination with an eye patch.
3.With particularly valuable animals, the veterinarian may, after treatment, temporarily suture an eye lid over the eye to eliminate dust, flies, cross contamination and solar radiation.
4.Use an intramuscular injection of a long acting oxytetracycline in combination with one treatment of a Cloxacillin based eye ointments and possibly an eye patch.
The eye patch is for dusty conditions in Oz and probably doesn't apply so much in Britain :raining:
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Opticlox wouldn't work.
But why would the vet prescribe it then?! They sold it to me after examining the first badly affected sheep ???
Because it is licensed to put in eyes! The fact it never works is less important!
Alamycin would but often the injection is insufficient alone.
So what should I add to the mix?
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I have heard of people holding the eye open and spraying terramycin directly onto the third eyelid etc as a desperation measure.. which has been curative. But this would unquestionably cause pain etc so best ask your vet their opinion again. Leaving them diseased would also cause pain..
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What do you think of the injection into the lower eyelid Me?
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It seems a giant painful faff to me tbh. Used it in cattle a fair bit though
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Over many years ,done all of the mentioned treatments , the injection in the lower eye lid was my preferred method but not easy to do for 1 man moved on to VETERICYN worked well but very expensive so after much thought/ reading / talking I now spray terramycin into the eye , works very quickly ,does not seem to cause discomfort ( I can say personally it is much less painfull then crovect which burns for about a couple of mins :dunce: ) A closed flock and isolation does not seem to work once its on the farm , nothing for 2yrs then this year 1 ewe 3 lambs only in one field treated quickly
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Over many years ,done all of the mentioned treatments , the injection in the lower eye lid was my preferred method but not easy to do for 1 man moved on to VETERICYN worked well but very expensive so after much thought/ reading / talking I now spray terramycin into the eye , works very quickly ,does not seem to cause discomfort ( I can say personally it is much less painfull then crovect which burns for about a couple of mins :dunce: ) A closed flock and isolation does not seem to work once its on the farm , nothing for 2yrs then this year 1 ewe 3 lambs only in one field treated quickly
;) < this is shep53 after using terramycin
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:tired: after the crovect
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Hi,
We use purple spray directly on to the eyeball, I'm sure it is a painful procedure, but with 90% of those treated recovering after just one treatment, we feel it is far less stressful than catching sheep up to inject them every few days.
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Yep
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I agree that less stress of single applicaion is always better but I think I'd have trouble bringing myself to spray something solvent-based into an already badly ulcerated eye, but I'll ask the vet tomorrow.
Will also ask about getting Orbenin from them as everybody here seems to agree that it works well while Opticlox doesn't. Wondering if they use a different carrier so the Orbenin stays on the eye better, hence it works better despite the same active ingredient. :thinking:
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No - not everyone! Hope it works for you though.
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Sorry to hear about your pink-eye woes. My flock had it on and off over almost a year a couple of years ago. We used Alamycin LA and Orbenin and treated as soon as we noticed any signs. It was a very depressing few months of treating and re-treating. We also culled a ewe who seemed to have it more than most. Thankfully, we didn't have any issues last year and didn't have a single case (I hope that I haven't jinxed myself!) It happened after a particuarly mild winter and I wonder if it was spread by flies. Anway, just to say that I feel your pain and hope that you get rid of it soon.
Helen
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So Orbenin used and had PE. almost a year
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What I would say about the treatment that we used it that the Alamycin LA/Orbenin combination did work but didn't seem to prevent a recurrence as they got it again, albeit weeks or months later. It just seemed to continually go around the flock with different animals being affected at different times (often when we were on holiday!).
Helen
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:wave: i got hit hard with it a few years back was jagging with alamycin la an putting orbenin in eyes . i also tryed drenchin with large doses of cod liver oil . i had been told that this worked but imo it didnt . after raking about i was told to inject with the alamycin then put about a ml of the same stuff direct in to the eye . this seemed to work best out of everything i tryed . but imo i think as many got better on there own as did with treatment.
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I suppose every breed and flock would be affected to a different degree. It's the number of bad cases I have in my small flock of 15 and the degree of recurring cases that worries me, and makes me think what the vet prescribed (Alamycin shots and Opticlox) is not working. Even worse, it seems that every case of recurrence comes down with worse symptoms (gunky eyes turn cloudy, or cloudy eyes turn ulcerated, then blind).
If terramycin directly in the eye is so very effective, surely there must be a more eye-friendly preparations than blue spray to administer that? A quick google search came up with a number of terramycin eye ointments for dogs/cats - anybody has tried that in sheep?
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You will do as you see fit, let us know what you chose and how it worked out.
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I wonder if the recurrences people have experienced are because, where treatment has started immediately there is no time for resistance to Pink Eye to develop in each animal? Effectively then it would be as if each exposure was the first.
Just a thought.
We found that most sheep needed no treatment and the Pink Eye cleared up within a few days on its own. If it persisted then we used Orbenin until the eyes began to improve, then stopped it again. We used the LA IM AntiB (which if I remember correctly was Terramycin) only on animals whose eyes continued to be bad, which was never many.
The Australian sites quote flies and windblown dust as the main causes of Pink Eye, but here blown hay fragments can be guilty, and untreated flies in places where they are present - we don't get head/eye flies here as it's very open and windy, lucky us.
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I wonder if the recurrences people have experienced are because, where treatment has started immediately there is no time for resistance to Pink Eye to develop in each animal? Effectively then it would be as if each exposure was the first.
Just a thought.
I've been wondering exactly the same.
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Maybe it is better sometimes to hold off on the AB's until their own immune system has had a chance to fight it off. Wish I had some suggestions to try must be very frustrating.
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I had thought about holding off on the antibiotic treatment but the speed with which it affected the animals and at which it spread through my flock made me reconsider. Finding a more or less blind ewe stumbling around the field looking very down and obviously in discomfort made me treat as soon as I was sure that the animal did have it. I do think that head flies are the main culprit and we had our year of pink-eye hell after a winter where we had only 1 or 2 hard frosts.
Helen
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We had a bout of pink eye last year in our housed calves last year. Our vet said it was a problem in the area and suspected the silage fumes! He recommended taking the plastic off the silage bale an leaving it for a couple of days to let the fumes away as feeding straight away causing the pink eye. Never had problem like that before, but he said it was just the weather or something that year affecting the silage as other farmers in the area experiencing the same.
Also we used to buy some sheep a the mart off the boat from Shetland, when they were home they seemed prone to pink eye my granny blamed the salt air around them on their journey, or perhalps shetland sheep are more susceptible. The vet 's treatment worked for us.
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We had it and a round of anti b and cream on the lid worked but I also rubbed horse fly repellent cream around the head to keep any bugs away and I think it helped. The eye went blind but he made a full recovery and his eye seems to work perfectly again
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+1 for terramycin spray, it usually does clear them up after a couple of days. a few years ago they used to be a powder you put on but they stopped making it for some reason. was really good though, but someone told me johnsons baby powder did the same trick. never tried that method though
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If you want the Terramycin to drip rather than be aerosol, try putting a clean spray top on it the one with the extra little bit of pipe on it, marker sprays usually have them. I noticed this by accident, not what I wanted at the time, was just changing spray tops, as the original was really gummed up. But gentler in delicate situations? Good luck xx
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Has anyone tried spraying terramycin or sprinkling baby powder into their own eyes just to make sure they are not causing pain to the sheep?
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Yes as discussed earlier shep53 has had terramycin in his eyes (as have a great many sheep after last year). No doubt treatment will cause stress and pain to the sheep - as will lack of treatment or continued use of ineffective treatment which IMO is by far the greater evil.
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Yes as discussed earlier shep53 has had terramycin in his eyes (as have a great many sheep after last year). No doubt treatment will cause stress and pain to the sheep - as will lack of treatment which IMO is by far the greater evil.
I think we are often over-evaluating the "pain" issue for treating farm animals. To treat a number of human illnesses we have no problems causing pain in order to cure/improve... but with animals we are told you cannot do it...
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Has anyone tried spraying terramycin or sprinkling baby powder into their own eyes just to make sure they are not causing pain to the sheep?
its better than to go blind though, never tried baby powder my self but the original powder they brought out for pink eye were better than the medicines available now
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Perhaps try Brolene , drops or ointment from the chemist. Cheap and effective.
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Yes as discussed earlier shep53 has had terramycin in his eyes (as have a great many sheep after last year). No doubt treatment will cause stress and pain to the sheep - as will lack of treatment which IMO is by far the greater evil.
I think we are often over-evaluating the "pain" issue for treating farm animals. To treat a number of human illnesses we have no problems causing pain in order to cure/improve... but with animals we are told you cannot do it...
Please don't include me in your 'we' Anke. I spent my entire career making sure not to cause extra pain to humans who were ill or required surgery, and I do the same for my animals.
A big difference between animals and humans is that for anyone above baby age we can explain just what we are doing, how it will benefit the person, then we get CONSENT to go ahead.
Frankly I'm shocked at the cavalier attitude expressed here by animal keepers, including a vet.
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I don't think anyone has shown a cavalier attitude at all Fleecewife, quite the opposite if you look through
our previous posts. We have discussed at length the possibility of causing pain and stress through treating vs. failing to treat, the OP has failed to control the problem and has asked for alternative suggestions and not surprisingly a commonly used alternative has been mentioned by a few.
Well, thank you all for your input and challenges on various issues on TAS. I have learnt a few things here and believe I have added something here and there too. A few of my friends have stopped posting and I think it is time I joined them (you can start the party now Fleecewife ;) ).
Me
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Well [member=35918]Me[/member], I was coming on to ask you if there isn't a teramycin spray/drop that doesn't include the purple dye? Sorry if I missed this in previous posts. If you don't reply, I'll ask when I see you. :) Only interested......
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I find the compassion and animal welfare to be of a very high standard on this forum , and the discussions with contributions from all levels of experience often thought provoking , after 50+ years of sheep keeping I hope I can adapt and try new ideas . Since all farm animals are prey animals they are very very good at hiding pain , the people on this forum seem to do the best they can to care for them .
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Quick (sharp) pain but with faster healing - surely must be better than a drawn-out gathering of the flock on a daily basis, repeated IM injections and repeatedly putting stuff in their eye... well I know which I would do if necessary. And I do care about my flock!
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Please don't fall out lovelies, Me you stay put lol
Hope you get to bottom of it all OP, and hope you looking after your own peepers too :hug:
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I have seen this sometimes in the fell sheep when out riding. It only affects a small pocket probably because they are so spread out and generally not gathering together to feed so not passing it on to all. Without a full fell gather and the risk of spreading it further I guess the sheep are left to get over it. They seem to stay in a small area until the symptoms pass and are fine.
I am not commenting on anything said or suggested on here just passing an observation.
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Lots to think about here, thank you again for all your input.
I've done some more research and spoken to a different vet, so here's an update for whatever it's worth:
Decided to hold off the ABs as a first call treatment to allow an immune response to develop (but I have the Alamycin bottle at the ready will inject if there is severe deterioration and concerns about secondary infections). Topically I'm now trying an antiseptic rather than antibiotic (Leucillin, similar to Vetericyn, indicated for safe use around the eyes ). Continuing the supportive treatment with vitamins and cod liver oil to boost the immune system.
In the field where I had the original outbreak 5 weeks ago the situation seems stabilized now, no more relapses this week, and all eyes seem to be healing. The 3 worst affected ewes still have milky eyes and only partially regained their sight, but they seem back to their normal self not looking miserable or distressed. Just keeping my fingers crossed there will be no relapse. Could be that the improvement is down to just time passing, who knows...
On the other field where it broke out last week I haven't used any ABs - it's still spreading, but seems it's not affecting animals quite as aggressively. Initial recovery is slower, but no relapses so far which must be a good thing. But then I don't know yet how it will go... fingers crossed...
More bits from my research if anyone is interested:
- eye ointment with Terramycin is only available in the US it seems, and ordering it from there would incur a £35 shipping charge (so I'm not).
- I have looked into Vetericyn mentioned by [member=9755]shep53[/member] earlier on as 'worked well but very expensive'
Very expensive it is indeed and it's coming from the US too, but a bit more research brought up a cheaper UK-made product (Leucillin)mthat is based on the same hypochlorous acid technology. It's specifically indicated for safe use around eyes, and I happened to have a bottle of that around anyway, intended for wound treatment.
Can't say the effects are dramatic after two days, although those animals that I treated with it do not seem to be getting worse. With all this handling of horned sheep I ended up with a gash on my lip so I've used this stuff on myself now and can confirm it doesn't sting at all, and tastes rather like tears.
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That's great LadyK. I'm so glad you're getting on top of the problem now. It's very interesting to read of the results of your research :thumbsup:
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Haven't seen this thread for a few days and some fairly strong feelings seem to have been stirred up. Surely the point of this forum is to seek and offer advice, experience and informed views. Some folks are bound to have strong views on some subjects, for a variety of reasons, but, hey, that's life.
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I didn't intend to cause anyone to stomp off in a huff. I reserve the right though to stand up against anything I perceive to be cruel, to any living creature, anywhere.
TAS is read worldwide, and by failing to make my comments heard, I could have been seen to be tacitly agreeing with them. This in turn could lead to a spreading of the cruelty.
The product advised is not certified for spraying into eyes. We know from the person who accidentally did so that it hurts a lot. Why then would it be justifiable to go ahead?
I think we have worn the subject out now and the OP has made her decision. Can we please drop it?
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I would just let it ride, now, folks. We all have a right to express our views; as FW says, sometimes it's a duty.
And every so often, pretty much all of us - especially vocal ones who aren't afraid to be controversial ;) - need to take a wee timeout from TAS.
I hope Me will call back in when he's had a break. If we don't make too big a deal of it all, he probably will ;)
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Last year I used the spray method which I found effective. The method I used was to spray into the lid and dab onto the corner of the eye with a cotton bud.(use a new bud on each eye to prevent cross contamination). Alternatively drill a small hole in the top of the lid and spray more accurately. Less mess and less stinging.
I believe in New Zealand this is the recommended treatment for pink eye.
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So is it just that a change of antibiotics Cloxacilln versus terramycin provides a more effective treatment? are we seeing an antibiotic resistant strain of pink eye?
Or is there something in the action of using a spray irritant into the eye which triggers a reaction / speedier healing?
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Taking away the aerosol would make it gentler. We ve all had to use some ointments and drops but it all subsides doesnt it, things sting, and settle. And if they work, brilliant. Touch wood and :fc: We ve never had eye problems here. Except for the odd atrophy at birth, then we used the little syringe of ab eye ointment, perhaps the same one, shall check and report back. Never used sprays either for eyes, but will continue to read this thread to learn more, never stop learning ! :dunce: Lol
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Was thinking more along the lines that whatever products were used in the spray ( as a propellant, carrier for the drug ect) had an irritant / caustic effect. Having watched numerous eye ulcers being "treated" in this way ( on dogs) it would offer perhaps an explanation for some improvement in some cases at least. having it propelled onto the eye as a spray may or may not be the best method of administration.
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I do wonder whether gathering and treating animals is causing reinfection as much as it's helping :-\
I would think it's easier to avoid getting germs on oneself (and on the tube, if using one) by using a spray.
And I certainly think there is often a case for allowing the disease a few days, for the animal's own immune response to get invoked, before treating any persistent cases.
I've done a bit of googling and will be getting some Leucillin for our medicine cupboard too. I'll see if the local agri merchant has some, otherwise Leucillin spray is available on eBay linky (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leucillin-/161896936463?var=&hash=item25b1cf340f:m:mnyui8es1DxQURRLovPlOEQ)
For those of a scientific bent, this paper may be of interest linky (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853323/)
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I've only ever used Orbenin, daily for about 5 days (tricky to start with but you soon get skilled in applying it). Worked for me, plus also separating all affected animals immediately and removing any hay racks etc that could cause bits getting into eyes etc.
I'm sure I was once told of a remedy that involved used engine oil! (obviously don't try that one at home kids!!)
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This part of the DEFRA web entry for 'Terramycin foot spray'.. Please note in particular paras 4.4 and 4.5
SUMMARY OF PRODUCT CHARACTERISTICS
1. NAME OF THE VETERINARY MEDICINAL PRODUCT
TERRAMYCIN™ AEROSOL SPRAY
3.92% w/w cutaneous spray
2. QUALITATIVE AND QUANTITATIVE COMPOSITION
Active ingredient
Oxytetracycline hydrochloride 3.92% w/w
Excipient
Patent Blue V (E131) 0.192% w/w
For the full list of all other excipients see section 6.1
3. PHARMACEUTICAL FORM
Cutaneous spray, solution.
4. CLINICAL PARTICULARS
4.1 Target species
Cattle and sheep.
4.2 Indications for use, specifying the target species
General: for the treatment and control of topical infections caused by, or associated with, organisms sensitive to oxytetracycline.
Specific: treatment of digital dermatitis in cattle and treatment of foot rot and scald in sheep.
4.3 Contraindications
None.
4.4 Special warnings for each target species
For external use only.
Do not spray in or near the eyes.
4.5 Special precautions for use
(i) Special precautions for use in animals
Do not spray in or near eyes.
Use only in a well ventilated area.
For external use only.
(ii) Special precautions to be taken by the person administering the veterinary medicinal product to animals
Use only in a well-ventilated area.
Wash any splashes immediately.
Operator should wear impervious gloves.
Wash hands after use.
Extremely flammable.
Do not pierce or burn, even after use.
Do not spray on a naked flame or any incandescent material.
Keep away from sources of ignition – No smoking.
People with known hypersensitivity to oxytetracycline should avoid contact with the product.
Continued..........
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Now that we all know we can get Leucillin as a spray, which kills bacteria and doesn't hurt in the eyes, I can't think that anyone would be contemplating using terramycin, which most of us have at some time sprayed on our own cut skin if not our eyes, and know fine well it stings, even if only briefly.
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Now that we all know we can get Leucillin as a spray, which kills bacteria and doesn't hurt in the eyes, I can't think that anyone would be contemplating using terramycin, which most of us have at some time sprayed on our own cut skin if not our eyes, and know fine well it stings, even if only briefly.
Definitely Sally :thumbsup:
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def worth giving that Leucillin spray a go next time I have an outbreak
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def worth giving that Leucillin spray a go next time I have an outbreak
agreed Firther it would be interesting to see some comparative stats for this treatment versus more traditional approaches.
Lets hope people are able to post some updates when they have had to try it.
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Leucillin has not been developed to treat pink eye as such (it is not an AB), and in using it rather than a proven AB you may be in the same boat as using terramycin spray (which btw also hurts if used as a foot spray for scald, wound treatment etc - something it is clearly recommended for). Given that terramycin has a proven record to treat pink eye, I mm not surprised that it is used in the form readily available on all sheep farms.... so far for me Orbenin has done the trick and I will keep Terramycin in mind if/when Orbenin doesn't work anymore. BTW you can get Terramycin in ointment form too, specifically for eye bacterial infections, and it is quite cheap...
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BTW you can get Terramycin in ointment form too, specifically for eye bacterial infections, and it is quite cheap...
Can you post a link Anke?
I tried to look into this myself, and while a quick search seemed to show it was indeed available and cheap, looking into the links closer it turned out it would have to be shipped from the US (via Turkey) and the shipping costs were ridiculous. Couldn't find a UK source at all (NOAH only lists terramycin as injectable or cutaneous spray ).
Maybe I missed something, so if you have found a better source could you let us know?
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But in the meantime Lady K - how are things going with your sheep? :fc:
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BTW you can get Terramycin in ointment form too, specifically for eye bacterial infections, and it is quite cheap...
Can you post a link Anke?
I tried to look into this myself, and while a quick search seemed to show it was indeed available and cheap, looking into the links closer it turned out it would have to be shipped from the US (via Turkey) and the shipping costs were ridiculous. Couldn't find a UK source at all (NOAH only lists terramycin as injectable or cutaneous spray ).
Maybe I missed something, so if you have found a better source could you let us know?
http://www.easy2order.net/view/pfizer/6044/terramycin-eye-ointment-for-pets-35g (http://www.easy2order.net/view/pfizer/6044/terramycin-eye-ointment-for-pets-35g)
I did not look into postage costs in great detail, as it is not relevant to my flock at the moment, but I strongly believe that bacterial infections need AB treatment.... if you are still not have had any improvements or are still getting re-infections you may have a strain that is resistant to penicillin type drugs, and therefore changing to something else may be necessary. Quite frankly if you have been struggling with this for weeks you have really no choice, but use another AB in the form currently available in the UK.... even if some people disagree with that treatment.
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Is this the only alternative choice of AB?
It may be that it is necessary to be more creative with the treatment of common ailments due to the increased risk of antibiotic resistance.
On the other hand terramycin spray may work well as its a combination of two approaches of treatment. Product manufacturers take note?
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Things are looking up, but I don't want to jinx myself...
Among the group with the first outbreak everyone looks happy and eyes are healing, 10 days without a relapse now, so maybe we're winning, but can't be sure yet. Crossing my fingers every day! :fc:
In the second field were it broke out 10 days ago (when I first posted), I saw the first signs of improvement yesterday (no more miserable sheep, those badly affected look like they have regained some sight). It has gone through everyone now, and no relapses yet but it's too early to tell if it's over... If the second field get over it in 2 weeks without AB jabs that compares rather well to the first field where I gave AB jabs and it took them 5 weeks to get over it, and I still have some badly scrarred eyes.
My problem wasn't that the ABs were not working, they did initially seem to clear up the first signs of infection. My problem was the relapses that followed with aggressive deterioration of the eyes into deep ulceration, which I found very scary - further doses of ABs or Opticlox didn't help at that stage, and the vet had nothing else to suggest.
It's worth noting that the new ram who brought in the infection in the first place got over it in just a few days with as much as a single application of saline eye wash (I didn't have anything else to hand when I first noticed it). He never got severely affected nor did he have a relapse at all despite all sheep around him coming down with it for weeks to follow. Obviously his immune system has dealt with this infection before and was able to fight it quite swiftly and successfully on his own.
So I started thinking that the relapsing problem was down to their immune system not being able to build up a proper response. I can see how a single application of Orbenin or Terramycin or whatever might stop the infection in its tracks IF the animal can quickly mount a proper immune response at the same time and get over it after the first treatment. Unfortunately it seems my animals didn't manage that for whatever reason - only the ram did - even though I've never had any other problems in the whole flock.
So in my case the topical application was more successful as a way of keeping sore eyes comfortable/lubricated and as clean as possible as the body gets on with the healing.
But that's just my sheep and my situation, and my first encounter of pink eye so it took me a while to work out an approach that works for my animals - not without the help of you TAS people :wave:
Everyone's sheep and situation is different.
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http://www.easy2order.net/view/pfizer/6044/terramycin-eye-ointment-for-pets-35g (http://www.easy2order.net/view/pfizer/6044/terramycin-eye-ointment-for-pets-35g)
Thanks for this Anke, I had not come across that link.
Everything on this site ships from Thailand but I will try to stock up on this for the future, if it let's me place an order.
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I strongly believe that bacterial infections need AB treatment....
If only antibiotics killed bacteria, we'd need to use antibiotics to cleanse our dairy equipment etc.
Paraphrasing the material on the Leucillin website, Leucillin is hypochlorous acid, ie, bleach, and is a chemical produced by leucocytes in your body to fight infection caused by invading microorganisms or pathogens (bacterial, viral and fungal.)
Hypochlorous is one of the most effective and efficient biocides known to man. Whilst being totally safe, it is 300 times more effective than bleach and is almost instant in its effect and unlike antibiotics, bacteria do not develop immunity to it.
Which all said, I do agree that there's no clinical information about using it for pink eye, whereas terramycin powder is licensed for that purpose.
I have to say, however, when we had the first outbreak on the moorland farm, and wanted to treat it, the powder did seem to cause some discomfort - and I couldn't really say the ones getting the powder recovered any better or faster than those who subsequently had the injection into the eyelid, nor than those - the last group - who had no treatment whatsoever. We concluded there was no real difference in recovery whichever treatment we gave, or none, so in subsequent years we used to let it run its course - and we never had it as bad again as that first time, when we were bringing the sheep into the treatment shed.
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Now that we all know we can get Leucillin as a spray, which kills bacteria and doesn't hurt in the eyes, I can't think that anyone would be contemplating using terramycin, which most of us have at some time sprayed on our own cut skin if not our eyes, and know fine well it stings, even if only briefly.
Definitely Sally :thumbsup:
I definitely won't be changing a treatment which I've used successfully for years on the back of other people's opinions. I inject Alamycin LA into the lower eyelid and until it was removed from circulation, used Aureomycin powder (puffer) onto the eyeball, now I spray Terramycin onto the infected eyeball, exactly as my Vet did when I took a ewe in for him to see. It is very rare to have to treat the same animal twice for the same infection. A little short term pain for long term gain is surely better than accepting prolonged pain and stress through infection and blistering which can cause temporary vision loss when a preferred treatment doesn't work, as seems to be the case for the OP.
I trust my Vet completely and just like you 'Me', he thinks outside the box and animal welfare is his main priority. It's very sad that valued members such as yourself, whose opinions and advice have helped so many on here feel they need to leave the forum on the back of strong opinions of a few. I can't help thinking that this Forum shall be all the poorer for these losses.
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when a preferred treatment doesn't work, as seems to be the case for the OP.
Just to clarify I wasn't following a 'preferred treatment', I have been following my vets recommendations, and that included two visits and examination of the worst affected animals, not just over the phone advice.
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when a preferred treatment doesn't work, as seems to be the case for the OP.
Just to clarify I wasn't following a 'preferred treatment', I have been following my vets recommendations, and that included two visits and examination of the worst affected animals, not just over the phone advice.
I'm not having a dig at you, but I do feel that the situation should have been under control quite some time ago, these animals by now will have been subjected to pain levels that far exceed any they would have endured through spraying terramycin into the eye. Clearly, as you say, the 'preferred treatment' was that of your Vets, not your own, and as I said
I trust my Vet completely and just like you 'Me', he thinks outside the box and animal welfare is his main priority.
I hope for your sake as well as the sheep's that this clears up pretty soon.
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difficult isn't it when a standard treatment doesn't appear to be working. Would the fact that it had some effect and then came back with a vengence give more credance to the possibility that it is developing a resistance to the antibiotic?