The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: simon.fern on September 23, 2015, 06:01:03 pm
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Newbie to the site! I've got 2 fields totalling 5 acres and keep 15 ewes from 6 months upwards. I rotate the flock between the fields and am out every day checking for dirty bums and feet problems (trying to do the right thing). I have an issue with one of my Zwartbles lambs in that after having egg counts carried out during the year and the vet not finding anything, regular worming and changing the wormer from clear to white, she's got tape worm segments in her poo. I've been poo picking for a couple of weeks now (to help remove the problem) and spoken to the vet who has advised I get probably the words most expensive wormer which I am ok with. Where I am a bit lost is that I don't really have any clean pasture and am bordering OCD as to how I tackle this so the rest of the flock don't get them (probably a bit late). I have a stable to get her out of the way/worm/dry up etc but I am really bothered about contamination etc... am I winding myself up? I can't go on poo picking... any help appreciated!! Cheers
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Is there any way that you could run electric fencing to split the fields into smaller areas so that they can rest for longer?
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Have done just that this evening. See if I can 60 days between rotation. Cheers
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The tapeworm has a two-stage lifecycle. The intermediate host of the sheep tapeworm is a pasture mite. So the bad news is that it's there in your pasture, yes. The good news is that the sheep tapeworm doesn't really seem to do the sheep any harm- it's the dog tapeworm that causes damage. But you don't see segments in the sheep's poo then; they are the intermediate hosts, and get cysts in their tissues.
Have a read of the Moredun page on Sheep tapeworm (http://www.moredun.org.uk/research/practical-animal-health-information/disease-summaries/tapeworm-and-tapeworm-larvae-infect-s).
M.expansais considered to be non-pathogenic to sheep and is more of a worry to flock owners through the obvious presence of expelled tapeworm segments in sheep faeces.
So you can find a wormer that hits Monezia expansa, but you'd just be making yourself feel better :D.
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Is there something you could put on your pasture to get rid of tapeworms? as well as resting it too?
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I don't think so, wbf. It doesn't cause the sheep any harm, so there'd be no market for such a product - so the chances are, no such product exists.
Whether the soil mites are affected by pH or anything I wouldn't know. We need one of our academics to pop in!
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Don't bother worming its a bit grim but not a big issue
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I saw tapeworm in my sheep too. I did get a wormer for it although the vet was saying that with tapeworm they would be ok without the wormer. So it would see that its not a big issue as ME has said.
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I hear that they are more trouble nutritionally than attacking the body, yucky though. Putting apple cider vinegar in water said to help. Normalises the gut pH. Worth a look x
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Use the cheapest white wormer you can get (I use Parafend). Do that now and then you can use it again in the spring to cover for Nematodirus, then use a different sort of wormer for all your other worming needs in the summer.
And worm your dogs, if you have any, regularly with a wormer that covers tapeworm.
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You do need to worm your dogs, yes of course - but that's not the worm whose segments you are seeing in the sheep's poo. The dog tapeworm has the sheep as the intermediate host, the larvae migrate through the tissues creating cysts. The adult worm lives and produces egg packets - the segments - in its primary host, the dog.
Presumably the adult worm does compete for food in the gut of the sheep, but it's clearly not to any great extent.
If it's bothering you, most of the broad-spectrum wormers do say they are active against 'Tapeworm: Monezia'.
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Yes, that's true, it is a different tapeworm in dogs ... but my thinking is that if you have one you might have the other :) .
When was the last FEC count done of this lamb? Did they check for fluke? is it losing weight? or any other symptoms apart from a dirty bottom?
Worm egg hatches are dependant on weather conditions so although she was clear earlier in the year that doesn't mean she's clear now. It's all a matter of getting the timing right with your wormer doses. She may be suffering more from the tapeworm because there is something else affecting her (be it other worms or something else).
What was the super expensive wormer that your vet suggested? Maybe its one of the new ones that no worms are resistant to yet (any why they suggested using it). What's the history of your fields, how long have your sheep been on them, and what was there before? You might have inherited some resistant worm strains.
Btw, I pulled a 50cm long tapeworm segment out of a lambs bum last year, now that was unpleasant!! :) Only the white/BZ/group 1 class of wormer will kill the tapeworm, so if you want to get rid of that then white is the way to go (but like I say it does mean you don't have other problems). This document lists all the products available and what they kill: http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BRP-Parasite-control-guide-030315.pdf (http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BRP-Parasite-control-guide-030315.pdf)
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Also a combination product LEVITAPE the very expensive group 4 & 5 wormers don't mention tapeworm ? tickled by some one poo picking sheep , think of the nutrients not getting into the soil
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If they don't say they do tapeworms then they don't, expensive or not.
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Yes, that's true, it is a different tapeworm in dogs ... but my thinking is that if you have one you might have the other :) .
Why?
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Yes, that's true, it is a different tapeworm in dogs ... but my thinking is that if you have one you might have the other :) .
Why?
No scientific reason at all :). I live in Wales, we have the hydatid type around here as well as expansa.
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Thanks for all of your responses. No dirty bums and the wormer was a brand new product, startec. I'll reworm in a week or so with white and see how she gets along. Sheep on the fields for about 2 years and cows before that. I re-seeded one of them in Feb/March. I guess I just need to chill a little :-)
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Not sure I follow; why white drench after Start tec at this time of year? When there are no dirty bums? Does the product even cover tapeworm?
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Hi Me, sorry I haven't startec'd them. The vet advised me on that brand. As there's only one with the visible tape segments I was going to drench her again with white, see how that goes and then try with the startec. Hope that makes sense :-)
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Oh, ok, thanks. To get maximum benefit out of your drenching for now and the future do a FEC, ask if you need to drench at all (white would often be inappropriate/ineffective in many places at this time of year), if you simply feel you have to worm them as you have seen tape and can't live with not worming then check that the drench you use has a claim against Tapeworm at all and then do a post-drench FEC to gauge resistance or lack thereof to what ever you used.
It may be that they don't need worming at all, or who knows the white drench may clear everything out and you don't need the Startec. If your vet doesn't do FECs send it away, it will be a very beneficial informative process.
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StartTecT (http://www.viovet.co.uk/StarTect_Oral_Drench_for_Sheep/c10605/) does not list Monezia at all, nor mention tapeworm.
If your vet thinks that will solve your problem, change your vet.
And any vet recommending that someone with 15 sheep, no clinically significant worms, who gets negative FECs and worms anyway, then uses one of the new drenches that hits worms resistant to other drenches, wants reporting and probably striking off.
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I think they should be publicly flogged with a cat'o nine tails made out of tapeworms.
(#vetshavefeelingstoo)
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I think they should be publicly flogged with a cat'o nine tails made out of tapeworms.
(#vetshavefeelingstoo)
You aren't his vet, are you, Me? :eyelashes:
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Please ask another vet about using startect, he s suggested group five wormer for tape worm?
E gads, please don't, the integrity and efficacy of the groups is so so important to preserve and the vet suggesting this would worry me.
Sorry don't mean to offend just a little worried for you to be honest.
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Perhaps he's on commission :thinking: Really naughty of him :tired: