The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Land Management => Topic started by: Mickey on September 07, 2015, 01:51:07 pm
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First year with our land and haven't had time to treat any of it with pesticide etc. The previous owner mentioned that they used 'Pasture' once a year in the fields but I have found a bottle of 'Grazon' that they left in the shed. Please could you let me know what treatment(s) if any you are putting onto your pastures, should I get some 'Pasture' for next year?
Thanks,
Mickey
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I think the stuff they're talking about is Pastor. Both Pastor and Grazon 90 are weedkillers made by Dow Agrochemicals. More info here http://uk.dowagro.com/products/grazon-pro/ (http://uk.dowagro.com/products/grazon-pro/)
We don't spray here - relying on cutting and grazing. These weedkillers for grassland also kill clover and we want clover to fix nitrogen for our grass. WE've tried spotspraying but it stll made a hell of a mess of the clover.
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If you're thinking of spraying you will need to get your ticket to stay legal although not sure if that extends to Scotland? http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2 (http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2)
If you have the equipment topping is far cheaper as that little bottle of Grazon will be £40 + VAT and doesn't go as far as you would think.
Personally we do both; graze / top the fields and only spray the headlands or problem areas.
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Goats are useful for clearing up rubbish. Herbicides have a way of finding their way into water courses.
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it rather depend on what you have growing there that you don't want.
pasture/grazon are (as the name suggests) selective weedkiller for pasture which will kill thistles, nettles bramble - there's a whole long list - but not the grass (although as Rosemary says it will still kill some of the nice things. IIRC patsure and grazon are basically the same but pasture is more concentrated for use in a tractor mounted sprayer, whereas grazon is for knapsack application.
if you have bracken then Asulox is the selective weedkiller you want - but it's only available on 'emergency license' (was banned by EU a few year ago) and rather expensive.
the other weedkiller that springs to mind is glyphosate (roundup) which kills more or less everything - grass, bracken, bramble, japanese knotweed, trees, etc, but is supposed to break down on contact with the soil and is considered relatively safe for the environment (still need to keep away from water courses), and also has the advantage that animals avoid sprayed plants so is relatively livestock/pet safe.
I would prefer not to use these chemicals but I have a lot of wilderness to tame and this is the last year I can use them without a cert, so I'm having a bit of a blitz (weather permitting), particularly on the bracken.
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we wouldnt dream of putting herbicides onto our fields now, the evidence on glyphosate is over whelming - it gets into the foods and kills bacteria and any living organisms in the ground you are in essence bleaching the soil (killing it). Over the years who have spent a fortune on weed killers and thistles/docs etc but to no success and you have to do it the exact time of year too.
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[/size]Weed control can be done by either close grazing with sheep, prevent poaching or over compacting in areas. Laying a good layer of compost/well rotted manure is a better course of action. If you have to but not wholly recommended plough and reseed however ploughing may just spread the seeds of the weeds.
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[/size]Herbicides are harmful chemicals and the more you put on the more so called fertiliser its a win win for these agro chemical companies while you strip and ruin the grounds not forgetting the damage to wildlife.
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[/size]You havent explained your land management and why you think you need these herbicides.
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Too laate to do much now. How much land? Good idea to cut and burn dock and thistle heads. Topping or grazing with cattle, sheep or goats will help a lot (not equines, they're fussy eaters), but start in March before the leaves get too tough. If you don't have stock of your own ask around to see if anyone wants some grazing, although you'll have to provide good fences and a water supply.
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Greatly appreciate those responses, thanks. We have three main field areas, 2 at a little under an acres each and one of almost 12 acres, the fields are mostly grass with some areas of quite dense weeds, nettles etc. I was going to strim the weeds down but am concerned at just spreading the seeds around hence I was considering the previous owners advice to use weed killers such as 'Pastur' and 'Grazon'.
Having read your advice I am going to look at the alternatives, I know nothing about 'topping' so will read up on that first, my neighbor has recently cut their fields and baled it all up so we are way behind things this year but will hopefully be doing a little better in the next one.
Thanks again,
Mickey
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Topping is just a term used for running the mower over without any intention of collecting the cuttings, mowing is when you cut for hay/ hayledge/ silage.
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Not equines, they're fussy eaters
Not if you strip graze and lift dung daily. Our two ponies did the best grazing job ever on that basis.
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I know nothing about 'topping' so will read up on that first
You might find this series useful, many of us are really grass farmers without realising it. :)
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/smallholding/grassland-management/ (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/smallholding/grassland-management/)
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Not equines, they're fussy eaters
Not if you strip graze and lift dung daily. Our two ponies did the best grazing job ever on that basis.
I do this and they have managed to reduce the amount of rushes growing too. So well have they done I even managed to take a cut of hay from one field which has not been suitable for over 40 years. The sheep are now strip grazing the aftermath and one passing farmer thought I had reseeded it.
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If you're thinking of spraying you will need to get your ticket to stay legal although not sure if that extends to Scotland? http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2 (http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2)
It covers the entire UK.
Come November this year - Grandfather Rights are gone. In theory it could mean that unless you have a spray certificate, you may not be able to purchase any pesticide product from your local country store or indeed a larger agri distributor. Some already have that policy in place - no certificate...no product.
While I agree that cultural control methods e.g. grazing, topping, ploughing, draining etc should always be looked at first in controlling any pest weed or disease issue, pesticides (covering insecticides, fungicides, herbicides etc) do have a place but it depends on the person as to what they feel about using them. And as I mentioned above - no certificate...no product. For many smallholders it will be easier to top etc but for farms, pesticides can be vital.
As Rosemary mentioned, Pastor or Grazon is not clover safe. Many grassland products are not clover safe in grassland but there are a couple which will give the clover a sore head but it will recover. I have had varying results with them and its sometimes been due to tempertaures when they have been applied.
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If you look on the pro green web site you will see a range of selective weed killers displayed in a table which shows which weeds they are effective on and which ones they dont harm. I use polo as its strong on Dock, nettle and Ragwort but dosent harm the clover and other valuable herbage in my pasture.
These chemicals are called herbicides if you are planing to use pesticide / insecticides to treat chaffer for example it may be worth asking your farming neighbours what they use.
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Not equines, they're fussy eaters
Not all, many natives are great weed-clearers. My Fells selectively eat thistle heads. :love: :horse:
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I have 11 acres which are grazed by sheep.I manage to control the nettles and thistles with hand held application of pasture occasionally.
Had a visit from rural payment agency last year who warned me about spraying licence.So I have stocked up on pasture and sadly resolved to downsize.
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I spent the weekend clearing thistles etc by hand and am now looking at getting a scythe to help the control. When I read the City & Guilds material on the link given (http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2 (http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2)), it seemed to imply that you only needed a certificate to spray for commercial purposes. Can anyone tell me if that is correct?
Thanks,
Mickey
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I spent the weekend clearing thistles etc by hand and am now looking at getting a scythe to help the control. When I read the City & Guilds material on the link given (http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2 (http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualificationschemes.aspx?id=2)), it seemed to imply that you only needed a certificate to spray for commercial purposes. Can anyone tell me if that is correct?
Thanks,
Mickey
At the moment yes, you have what is called 'Grandfather rights' to use herbicides and pesticides for your own purposes and on your own land. However these rights are due to expire this November (? correct me if I'm wrong).
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Thanks for that
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......At the moment yes, you have what is called 'Grandfather rights' to use herbicides and pesticides for your own purposes and on your own land. However these rights are due to expire this November (? correct me if I'm wrong).
You are quite correct - Grandfather Rights end this November.
In theory after this point if you want to spray, you need to have a spray certificate - PA1 theory + PA whatever - depends on your requirements. PA6 is knapsack, PA2 is tractor mounted.
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Thanks for that, I was struggling to see the wood for the trees amongst the long list of possible certificates.
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As far as I know - there are new regulations for loads of things coming in from the EU that makes you buy the EU regulated and sponsored products in the future. Its kind of a free market but captive market.
Hell they have bigger nets - bugger it.
If you have a smallholding - pull it out by hand - if you have a farm, you need chems help.
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We spent 5 years resisting the chemicals route pulling up thistles nettles and docks and scything much of our steep land. Thus year we gave in and bought a knapsack and some grazon 90. Fab on the nettles and docks but the thistles may take longer. Pa cert courses are anywhere between 250 and 400 pound. Technically from Nov no one should sell herbicide to anyone without the necessary qual. I guess some will be more fastidious than others as is always the case
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......Pa cert courses are anywhere between 250 and 400 pound......
And the rest!
Saw PA courses advertised in our local paper yesterday:
-PA1 'Safe use of Pesticides' (training & assessment) £200.00
-PA6 'Hand held Sprayer' aka knapsack's (training & assessment) £290.00
-PA2 'Tractor mounted sprayer' (training & assessment) £345.00
PA1 has to be done by everyone - its the theory side of things but once done that's it. Once you have PA1 you can then do as many of the other PA certificates as you like.