The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: shep53 on September 06, 2015, 01:05:47 pm

Title: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: shep53 on September 06, 2015, 01:05:47 pm
The  facts,   15th aug weaning the last field of x lambs  2 missing , went to search  and found   a bit of wool plus the spine and ribs   of the second lamb no sign .     All x lambs weaned and running in 6 fields  next to one another and  over the road from the field above .    24th aug   found   wool and bone fragments in field 3 .    30th aug  dead lamb  shoulders eaten  neck severed at the shoulders and head and neck missing   in field 1         3rd sept dead lamb   only spine and ribs / skin again head and neck severed missing field 1     ( the wool on the neck area was bloody but the ground was clean )          4th sept     lamb alive with blood on its neck and a couple of light puncture wounds.  field 1           These are  tex x lambs born april  and   thriving  .          Very strange that all the lambs including stomach and contents / intestines etc all gone plus the head and neck gone .            Thoughts ???
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: waterbuffalofarmer on September 06, 2015, 01:21:55 pm
Probably a group of foxes or badgers. Missing head suggests badger. Have you had any stray dogs hanging around?
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Porterlauren on September 06, 2015, 04:00:04 pm
Very unusual that a fox or badger would catch and kill weaned lambs. Sounds like it could be a dog, but again it would be a bit unusual that the dog would eat it like that.

Big cat?
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: crofterswife on September 06, 2015, 04:08:11 pm
A litter of this years fox cubs is the most likely culprits.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Kimbo on September 06, 2015, 05:09:27 pm
weird.
Strangest part is how clean the ground is and how all the innards have gone. Maybe the crows took those away but it is indeed a mysterious occurrence.
I think you need a camera
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Marches Farmer on September 06, 2015, 06:49:36 pm
Badgers generally go into a downer cow through the udder - underbelly is a soft way into the body cavity.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Deere on September 06, 2015, 06:59:01 pm
With the innards being missing my money is certainly on badgers,  whether they initially killed the lambs, stole them off a fox or cleared up once a fox had finished is the mystery!
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: shep53 on September 06, 2015, 08:25:02 pm
 After talking to gamekeepers and farmers the favourite was a  single dog ,  no badgers  around nearest 8mls away .     But the reality ( well done crofters wife ) was a pair of dog foxes born this year both now DEAD  shot  half an hour ago .   :thumbsup:   No one has seen anything like this before so what's the story  Crofters Wife
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: crofterswife on September 06, 2015, 09:01:47 pm
The crofter was the "vermin modulator"  (we need to be pc about it) here for a few years and had seen this before.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Coximus on September 06, 2015, 10:40:51 pm
Sounds like either dogs or foxes - that said Its unusual for foxes to take mature lambs IMO / IME they will if desperate but ive never had a fox take this late in the season, they usually take them much smaller.
That said a big dog fox will do that, but that habit doesn’t last long as they get shot and others don’t learn.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Porterlauren on September 06, 2015, 10:45:56 pm
Very very unlikely to be a pair of foxes born this year taking down weaned lambs. Very likely that a litter of cubs could strip the carcasses though, same with ravens. We've had ewes stripped bare by ravens in hours. But Usually its an ill ewe etc. Live 30 + kilo lambs are a handful for most things. . . . . . foxes are bloody small animals in reality!
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Me on September 06, 2015, 11:02:39 pm
7kg a fox?
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Porterlauren on September 06, 2015, 11:15:26 pm
Yer average dog fox weight is quoted around 7k with vixens around 5.5 k. Seen some very large dog foxes, but relatively speaking, they are still not a 'big' animal. Certainly a healthy fat lamb should easily be able to run from / over one.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Coximus on September 06, 2015, 11:18:16 pm
Thinking on it - sounds like a stray dog took the lamb for "fun" and the carcase was stripped down - thinking back to my losses, this is usually the cause - though its usually badgers stripping the carcase.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Buttermilk on September 07, 2015, 07:37:16 am
Having seen the size of some of our local foxes they weigh a fair bit more than 7kg even allowing for big fur coats.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Me on September 07, 2015, 09:30:01 am
I shot a big dog fox (small lamb killer) weighed it and was surprised to find he only weighed 7kg
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Cosmore on September 07, 2015, 10:30:47 am
Possible dog attack, carcasses finished off by foxes, badgers and winged predators.

(or maybe the Beast of Argyll? Here in Dorset some still think there is a large member of the cat family that they've named the beast that is responsible for similar deaths)
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: jward on September 07, 2015, 11:45:25 am
Possibly some kind of wild cat/beast. There's quite a few reports in my area from wild animals that were released or escaped years ago and are still roaming around. We had a foal attacked and left for dead years ago.
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Hellybee on September 07, 2015, 12:11:58 pm
I'd say badger.  We used to mark up lambs with Stockholm tar and was taught to mark haunches for the fox and the neck for the badger. Hope you find the culprit x
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: shep53 on September 08, 2015, 06:25:34 pm
Update , last night  a vixen cub shot in same field         wt 5kg the dog cubs were a little  bigger so 6kg     , our foxes are tall   and long
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Porterlauren on September 08, 2015, 08:08:05 pm
They may have been stripping the carcass a bit (and you can usually tell by the teeth marks on bones etc) but they are certainly not pulling down fat lambs. . . . . . and neither is a badger. If healthy weaned lambs are being killed in their multiples. . . . . there is something more afoot that either fox or badger predation. . . . . .
Title: Re: MURDER MYSTERY
Post by: Me on September 08, 2015, 08:44:18 pm
Yes, maybe one of these on the loose  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5XlQpmOvfQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5XlQpmOvfQ)