The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Buffy the eggs layer on September 04, 2015, 12:33:44 pm
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Well I knew before I got them that raising turkeys could be tricky due to their delicate constitution, slow maturing digestive and imune system and the fact that they cant be given medicated chick crumb so I cant complain I guess.
I tried really hard to keep them super clean in the brooder and throught I was doing well to get them all to the coop / off heat stage. Keeping the run clean and dry as been tough between torrential downpours and sunny humid spells but once I got them free ranging I thought I was home and dry in terms of bacterial infection but no.
One of the large hens has looked a tad under par for a few days but each time I decided she looked hunched and sleepy she would perk up and join in the with the others.
Yesterday however I decided that she was fighting something so after checking with the vet that I could give her the strong antibiotic that I keep in store for the hens I am dosing her every evening. She eats and drinks better if she is with the others so she is trying her best to join in with the gang and such a good girl when it comes to taking her meds.
I will stick with it and hopefully she is a big enough bird to pull through. I have got a mature hen through egg peritonitis and an orphan triplet lamb through a bacterial infection this year so I am hoping that I'm on a roll and can claim a hatrick on the antibiotic front.
I know you are going to tell me that it's part of the challenge of keeping turkeys but I will be very sad to loose her. Especially as the cause will be a dirty environment and therefore my fault.
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Yes, wet ground does pose a challenge, we've had the same problem this year and we're constantly cleaning and moving. But that's not necessarily the cause of a bacterial infection, it may just be sheer dumb luck that a wild bird carrying certain bacteria did a pooh where the turkeys were and your girl picked it up. Could have happened on clean, dry ground. So don't beat yourself up over it :)
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Well I knew before I got them that raising turkeys could be tricky due to their delicate constitution, slow maturing digestive and imune system and the fact that they cant be given medicated chick crumb so I cant complain I guess.
The can be fed a medicated starter crumb and its safer to do so in case of coccidiosis, its waterfowl that shouldn't be fed medicated feed.
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Clansman,
even my vet thinks they cant have medicated crumb ??? I have it in for the chicks but understood that it could kill the turkeys?
The antibiotic that she is on is usually very effective providing that I catch something quick enough.
She is weary and sleepy and her crop is pretty empty but she is eating and drinking with the others and pecking at grass when she goes out but I am reducing their playing out time until she is stronger. She sets off with them all and then is knackered by the time they all come back for a snack.
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an Avian vet?
medicated feed is fine for pretty much everything, even waterfowl nowadays.
There used to be certain anti coccidiostat drugs that were harmful to waterfowl in large doses but I believe these have all now been withdrawn from use although the stories around their use still circulate.
I've certainly fed waterfowl medicated feed many times with no problems.
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No not an avian vet! Clansman. :eyelashes:
Just a vet who had to check his vet meds book to see if my antibiotic was safe on turkeys. They cant all be experts at everything can they? ;) But then my avian vet who I thought was very good has had me using ivermectin as a spot on wormer for a year until her colleague advised me that it's not effective for internal parasites. ??? [size=78%] [/size]
I'm sure that you will be right about the medicated crumb but sadly its a bit late for that now. The person that I bought them from said they couldnt have medicated crumb and was feeding them unmedicated chicken crumb. It is genuinely difficult to tell the difference between someone who really knows what they are talking about and someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
The vet said to buy her some tinned sweetcorn to try and tempt her to eat. I asked if she could eat that as I had read that they shouldnt have wheat until 12 weeks. His view was to give her anything as long as she would eat something and suggested pasta ( prepared outside on a primas stove of course) i dont think he knew about the development of their digestive system.
I duly made her an exciting feast of sunflower seeds, tuna, pasta and sweet corn with mealworms on top which I knew full well she wouldnt eat. I was right. She simply pooed on it and went to bed. ::)
Turkeys just dont seem to have the same enthusiasm for food that chickens have. So I'm relaying on the gregarious, social nature of the group to encourage her. Oh and large doses of good old Aunti - B.
Wish me luck....I may need it :innocent:
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Yep even the experts are not infallible! ;D
Have you tried them with apples?
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I'e not yet lost a turkey due to disease but I agree on their relative indifference to various types of feed.
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No I havent but I could, I have a pile for the pigs.
A friend of mine who has 3 rheas, a sparrow, a diamond dove, 2 whistling tree ducks and an eclectic assortment of fancy fowl has a bit of a way with birds. So I asked her advice and she sent me home with half a tub of critical care formula. I gave the turkey hen a syringe full then let the gang out to play for a bit. She was certainly more enthusiastic about mealworms when she got back to the coop an hour later.
I will give her some more before bed I think. Its fluid and energy if nothing else so it might just give her the boost she needs to fight off what ever it is.
I ought to point out at this stage that the vet didnt take her temperature or anything. She felt very hot to me and I have assumed that it is bacterial but it could be something congenital like organ failure. I also took another one of the turkey poults along which has a wry neck to make sure that it wasnt in pain.
The vet said there is a good chance that all the females could all end up producing chicks with wry necks so its fair to assume that these poor little birds may not be of the highest breeding quality or in the peak of health and fitness. :turkey: :(
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Turkey chick crumbs are sold with medication if desired. They have a cocciodiostat (like chick crumbs) and another medication against blackhead. If turkey starter crumbs aren't available then starter and grower feeds for game birds are similar, as pheasants, partridges (and peafowl) are also susceptible to blackhead.
Don't know what antibiotic you are using Buffy, but I find that my peafowl respond well (even when apparently at death's door) to tetracycline. I use the same long acting one that I have for the sheep as that's pretty broad spectrum.
I too have read that wheat shouldn't be fed to turkeys till about 12 weeks, but find it a bit illogical as a major ingredient of chick crumbs has always been wheat.
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Hi Landrover :wave:
yes I find there are lots of "rules" about turkeys that don't quite add up. I always try and go by the book the first time that I do things and then adapt my methods once I understand the general principals.
The Aunti -B on this occasion is Enroxil which the Avian gives me for the hens. If I had thought that they could have it I would have whacked a dose down her as soon as I saw she was hunched up.
She was so weak yesterday and the droppings that she passed showed that the pellets that she had eaten were not fully digested but sat in a pool of liquid, which suggested it is some form of gut issue. I actually thought I was going to loose her yesterday which is why I gave her the Enroxil earlier than usual and upped the dose.
I dont know if that made a difference or if the 3 syringes of critical care that I gave her helped but she is noticeably stronger today and despite the lime element of her droppings being bright yellow from the antibiotic they are a much better shape and constancy. She is still carrying her neck in but her feathers are not ruffled and her eyes are fully open, shes pecking much more eagerly etc. Still a poorly hen but a BIG improvement on yesterday.
So Im going to give her 3 doses of critical care throughout the day and keep on with the meds until I think she is in the clear. Every 24 hours she gets through is a huge positive.
:relief: [size=78%] [/size]
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Sounds promising. :thumbsup:
Fingers crossed then. :fc:
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She's not good again today but I will stick with. Every 24 hours is a step forward.
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I wouldn't use any of that batch for breeding.Are they commercial turkeys? If so they've been bred for many generations only to reach slaughter weight as quickly as possible.
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No they are heritage Marches but I had come to the same decision as you.
Owning them has made me realise that I like turkeys though so I will pop to the rare breeds Auction at York at the beginning of Oct and see what Turkey breeders are there.
I would happily buy a nice adult Trio but not from the auction. I like to buy off farm and would only want birds with a placid, friendly nature. Not something that had to be backed into a corner with a whip and a chair. :( That sort of thing isnt obvious at an auction.
I felt much more hopeful about my turkey hen yesterday but I feel much less so today.
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sorry to hear this Buffy. You can only do your best :fc:
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You're a long way from me but I hope to have Narragansett eggs for sale next year. Those that I set under my own turkey hens had a 96% hatch rate this year. We've sold breeding groups to farms in Somerset and Pembrokeshire this year but nothing in your direction.
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Thanks Marches,
I repaired my RCOM Suro this year with a few spare parts that Womble kindly sent me but I'm still not 100% convinced that its working properly. I need to try it out next year with some of my chickens eggs to be sure before I risk some turkey eggs. I suspect it may have some cool spots.
Do turkey eggs travel well in the post?
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Well my sweet little turkey girl came to the end of her 5 day course of antibiotic on Sunday but I gave her another dose yesterday as she was still hunched and fragile. Today however she is fading and hasnt the energy to join the others.
If nature hasnt taken its course by the time OH gets home I think the kindest thing would be to dispatch her.
Thanks for all your comments and kind wishes.
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Do turkey eggs travel well in the post?
My sister has bought several lots of hatching eggs, from ebay, that were well packed and posted from various sources, the best hatch was 2 eggs out of 6. The ones that didn't hatch appeared not to be fertile, but it seems unlikely that they were all poor quality eggs, so I can only assume it was their treatment in transit that was less than ideal. :thinking:
In conclusion - the eggs travelled very well.
- but they didn't hatch.
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Thanks LLR,
my turkey hen died yesterday so now my little turkey pals have reduced down to 5. I put the little hens body on the bonfire of hedge cuttings and the other turkeys settled down beside it to enjoy the heat. I will continue raising them and see how they develop and in the mean time look out for some good breeding stock / breeders at the rare breed auction.
Perhaps if I find a local breeder I can collect the eggs which might improve viability. I'm just mot massively confident in my incy at present so hatched chicks would be my preferred option.
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Im very sorry to hear that Buffy. You did your best
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Sorry to hear that. I only post eggs by next day delivery when I know it's going to be cool weather. I know of several turkey breeders that have had problems with fertility and hatchability this year - I don't think turkeys appreciate humid-cold-cold-cold-humid weather in cycles.
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Thanks everyone.
:)
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There are two males in my little flock, the younger of the two is slipping away. He isnt hot and I havent given him aunti -B but he is producing bright yellow poo with lots of water content. Its clearly something to do with their livers but this one has been more rapid and I think he will struggle to last the day.
Just like the last one that died he eats and drinks and has tried to keep up with the others but he is resting in a straw bed in the coop now poor lad.
I'm a bit more philosophical about this one but still sad and disappointed that they have been taken ill. I dont think its blackhead as they have been wormed along with the chickens but perhaps it could be to do with not giving them medicated crumb? If it was a cocci type infection though I would have expected it to get hold of them much sooner. This has come on since they have been out and about but after they have been wormed. ???
I suspect that it is a congenital weakness from poor breeding but I would only know for sure if I paid for a pm. lf these birds were part of my own established breeding flock I would want to get to the bottom of it but as I wont be breeding from them I dont see much point paying the vet to cut them up. At this rate I wont be eating them either.
:(
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The Suro needs to be used in a room at about 25C Buffy, to avoid cold spots and very late hatches. The alternative is to run it in a large heated box. We've given up incubating in ours and now use it covered in bubble wrap as a hatcher only- the cradle motor failed anyway.
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Worming helps but doesn't fully protect against blackhead, it reduces the infection rate but doesn't kill the histomonas organism, and the eggs can also live in the soil (though for less long) and earthworms. And the symptoms you describe are very much like blackhead.
Why don't you have a look inside if you don't want to pay a vet? Or if you rather not do it personally, maybe someone you know who's processed poultry? You won't be able to miss the liver, it's a large organ, and there are lots of photographs online to compare with.
I've taken a body to the RVC before for post mortum and it was free.
Good luck, I hope he does pull through or that at least the others will be fine. :fc: This must be hard, I found my turkeys incredibly friendly.
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Cocci can hit growers as well as very young poults. The Autumn weather often highlights weaknesses in all classes of birds and livestock. We don't hatch any poultry after the end of July as, on our windy hilltop, I prefer the birds to be really well grown and robust before Winter sets in.