The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: Nigel Copeland on September 01, 2015, 02:04:14 pm
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Planning for livery business on agricultural land.
Hi, we recently received planning for 6 timber stables via change of use from agricultural to mixed agricultural/ equestrian.
Our original quote for this was £80 but then it went up to £780 due to the change of usage and the total concrete base went over by 2ft which then doubled the planning.
Everything was going fine until our local councillor got involved. We had one battle after another and 2 county committee meetings later, we finally got the planning.
The land has been in the family for many years, original use for growing crops and rearing pigs. We knew something wasn't right during planning and we sought freedom of information and we were shocked from what we discovered.
Our local county councillor (cc) accused us of wanting to build houses in the future to our parish council.
The CC had told planning that our parish council had objected ( not true )
The CC informed highways we would be running HGVs through the village ( again not true )
Told Highways that neighbours were against the planning and our PC were seriously against the application.
Told Highways the stables were brick.
Highways turned us down on the site entrance. Being used for agricultural machines over 60 yrs and not 1 accident we queried this and the decision was overturned.
The CC was now furious and when local PC gave it their nod of approval albeit a list of conditions, our CC then informed planning that unless the conditions were enforceable our PC will object. Again not true but resulted in 2 committee meetings.
In total our business was put back by 6 months because of lies from our CC.
If we lied on our application, we would have not got planning and faced other consequences.
We complained to our district council but have been fobbed off by their legal team.
I can not let this rest and will be grateful of any advice as how to take this further. The wool would have been pulled over our eyes if I hadn't done my homework on highways before planning would have turned us down.
Thanks,
Nigel
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Try the Local Government Ombudsmen. They are there to see the LG acts correctly and should include ensuring that planning is conducted honestly. If the planning is delayed through a lack of truth, or opinions being asserted as fact by the Councillor they should be able to deal with that. If nothing else it will get your story known by the right people
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I'll give it a go.
Just someone who will actually listen to us would be great.
Cheers.
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Isn''t there a recently formed planning ombudsman as well that is going for these obstructive little shirts who are damaging business development through out the UK .
Have a check with the Labour & Conservatives etc. at branch offices Or county levels rather than your local town hall Councillors of such persuasions . May the CAB if it's still up & running these days .
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Just phone the ombudsmen and unfortunately they don't think it's something they can help with.
Nevertheless, they told me to still submit a complaint to them.
I've just called a solicitor and waiting for them to get back to me.
Reluctant to go down the solicitor route due to costs I can't really afford, but willing to take their advice after discussing.
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Well done. Even if they don't take action it gets it in the right circles which helps if there are other complaints. Clodhoppers advice is also good. Assuming you CC is a member of a party complain to the local party office. Comments like 'bringing the Party into ill repute' always attract attention
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After a good talk with a solicitor, we've drawn the conclusion that it's not really a legal issue because it's not money that I'm after as an outcome.
He did say it stinks though and not enough help out there to see justice done. As I said, it's more to stop a person with powers abusing their position. If it stops the next person being of the ordeal we went through
and the grief it caused us, then I will be happy with that.
At the end of the day, we won, she didn't. However, everones planning application SHOULD be dealt with for what it is instead of it typically being who you are that gets what you want whilst the little person gets walked all over.
My advice to anyone who wants horses on agricultural land. Put stables up through agricultural planning and keep the odd sheep, goat or pig and no-one can prove a thing.
We had to have change of use as it's a business we are running. Good news is we now have 4 racehorses in recovering from various things before they go back to racing. I know if we expand, it will be a barn next time with stables inside ????
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If the CC have lied then it is an offence of misfeasance in public office.
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True mate but unfortunately they are a law above themselves making it difficult to seek justice.
I wouldn't hesitate taking it further if it was as easy as that. I would go to our local paper if I could as I have all I need in black and white.
Been a grafter all my years and I'm out my depth knowing what to do with issues like this. Just feel sorry for the next person who she does it to.
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Hi Nigel
My next door neigbour applied silmilar thing prob is £80 is agri building price, then it goes up to £385 for other uses up to certain size.
He had same issue few feet bigger so ended up with £700+ bill.
Funny bit was they wanted the existing field shelter taking down before granting permission for much larger stable.
Best bit was they passed it without adding conditions at all except colour.
My property is 100m away different council i can not get agri planning for anything.
Have even had a enforcement noticed served on me for stopping on site over night while goats are kidding. Its currently at appeal wait till its over will post everything, enforcement and planning officers telling balatent porkers.
How did you do freedom of information thing , could be intresting in my case, they have implied i am after building housing here.
They are raving i know how you feel, some people totaly abuse power.
I would not let it drop but do not let it eat away get on and prosper goverment are supper keen on relaxing planning now anyway
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Can your local MP not help?
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Just had another idea ..
Perhaps go to the likes of the Daily Express or the Daily mail , ask the papers help desk folk if anyone is doing local government planning abuse. Would they like to hear you out or perhaps even take up the problem on your behalf & others who are getting messed around.
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Just had another idea ..
Perhaps go to the likes of the Daily Express or the Daily mail , ask the papers help desk folk if anyone is doing local government planning abuse. Would they like to hear you out or perhaps even take up the problem on your behalf & others who are getting messed around.
Thats a great idea i even thought of contacting country file i know a few farmers having the same crap
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Hi Mart6
You just request FOI from all parties.
Parish council, local council and county council.
They have to supply you with it and only have a certain time to do so.
Could write a book on ours. I did have to sit down though when I read it as I was shocked what I found.
Almost laughable if it wasn't so serious.
As I said, although I've got it all in black and white there is not enough help out there to deal with it.
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Cheers Nigel
That really is shocking, but i am not suprised after what i have recently seen.
I would put a complaint in with the local council obudsman, then approach a MP from the opposite party. Not that i think you will get the justice you deserve.
But it may put the fear of god up them esp if the outcome gets leaked to the local press.
Got to say i like cloddopper idea if we could get enough people together.
Is cc a party member ? Conservatives are really peed off with labour councils turning down planning applications both commercial and residential.
It was labour that wanted to bring in BIS rates for all agricultral buildings thank god they never got in.
Problem with this country is noone stands up, just look at French farmers gov are scared sh-tless of them
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Good luck with this. Not sure you will get anywhere and probably it will just make you crosser.
I do appreciate the issue of people getting land with no accommodation, getting stock and then saying they need to live there to do the job properly, safety etc. I've seen it happen and it is a back door entrance to getting housing passed.
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I'm getting the local paper to come and do a write up on the new business.
I'm sure they will be very interested in how the planning was dealt with.
Not too sure on the local MP. I get the feeling they look after each other.
I'm sure the paper will ruffle some feathers and our county councillor will be spitting feathers.
After all, I can't be done for slander! It will be down to them to comment if they wish.
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Our local paper are coming out next Thursday to do a write up on the business and the problems we've encounted to get it up and running.
Happy days !!
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Good luck with this. Not sure you will get anywhere and probably it will just make you crosser.
I do appreciate the issue of people getting land with no accommodation, getting stock and then saying they need to live there to do the job properly, safety etc. I've seen it happen and it is a back door entrance to getting housing passed.
We already live on the land. The land has been in the family for 3 generations now. Originally pig farmed, now pasture land for a few livestock and a small proportion to run the racehorse livery on.
It was the livery that we had all the problems as we had to get change of use for that area.
Ridiculous that we could have filled the field full of pigs, hgv running through the village with no planning required.
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Hope the paper article really makes the point about your unwarranted and spurious difficulties!
cc telling :pig: indeed!
Any person within a government / local authority in a position of power is duty bound to make impartial recommendations / decisions based purely on facts. What the individual in this case appears to have deliberately done to mislead and influence outcome by the use of terminological inexatitudes would constitute an abuse of authority, a serious matter that I would have thought should have disciplinary consequences?
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Hmm, would she have a hidden agenda? Might be worth a bit of investigation
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Nigel .
Knowing you have a week to get things together why not write & print off a historical sequentially dated article of events and your thoughts at teh time about each event ready for the journo .
Most local rags don't have the more able journos putting out quality articles , giving it from your view leaves little opportunity for the journo to write their own book of fiction .
I say that because that's what was recommended when I did a couple of years with the local chamber of commerce business development arm .
Their premise being if you trust a young inexperienced reporter to get the story right as you see it you're leaving yourself wide open to being misreported.