The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Buffy the eggs layer on July 12, 2015, 08:19:52 am
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I have an over grown strip of land approx 6 mtrs x 90 mtrs which is enclosed by pig netting. It has fir trees for year round shelter and a hawthorn hedge down one side as a buffer from the road (this is also pig fenced). There are some elderberry shrubs in there, Ivy, nettles and bracken at one end,. Lots of shade and rooting opportunities as well as some open spots for sun bathing. No water / mud bathing though and the possibility of bits of old brick and rubble under some of the of foliage.
I am thinking of putting a couple (not sure how many) of store pigs on it for a few months (not sure how long) to clear it ( not sure if the plant life is safe for them).
We don't eat that much pork usually but we would be able to do allot of damage to a freezer full of sausage and bacon.
So this may be one of those ideas that's more bother than it's worth as there may be lots of costs and complications that I haven't considered.
Can any of you talk me through the practicalities and the pros ad cons as well as recommending a suitable breed. I was thinking of Pietrain x GOS as they are easy for me to source.
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The only issue would be the lack of water/a wallow. When it's hot they need the mud to help them cool down, otherwise you have overheated pigs. Overheating and lack of water can lead to salt poisoning (worst case, leading to death) so that would be a fairly major requirement.
A line of barb along the bottom of the fence will discourage them trying to root under.
For decent sized bacon you need to run them on a bit longer to let the loin develop in size - usually about 8-10 months or 100kg live weight. This can sometimes cause problems at the abattoir (some only take pigs to 85kg) so check out your local ones.
GOS x Pietrain would be a good choice - a wee bit faster growing and inclined to be lean.
With the area and time you'd be keeping them for bacon I'd say 2 would be plenty (thinking also about the volume of pork you'll produce!) and by the time they go it should all be cleared for you.
You'll need a shelter for them - can be something simple, knocked up between the trees, but just to give them a cosy bed ;)
HTH
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Yes, a good wallow is essential for the hot days, also good shade.
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Water is not a problem but I have such a sandy soil that mud, puddling and particularly wallowing could be a challenge to supply. Shelter- yes thats fine to though I had hoped to have them away before the shorter days come as I have enough on with the sheep and the hens.
Can any one supply some simple fag packet figures for this one in terms of cost of stock and feed + slaughter and anything else that hasn't occurred to me versus the value and quantity of the meat produced?
I am trying to work out if I could generate sufficient meat value either for sale or in my freezer to offset the cost of fencing the hawthorn side of this area (90 mtrs at £4.50 a mtr) and over what period.
Also, what are the pros and cons of Kune Kunes over my Pietrain x idea
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From the Diary section of TAS http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/diary/kunekune-pigs-for-meat/ (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/diary/kunekune-pigs-for-meat/)
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Thats helpful thanks. The cost of the Kune Kunes is much greater than other weaners and The butchery costs are much higher than I expected. More homework required I think.
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Put them in let them clear it an see what sort of age they are...sausages are expensive to have made but sell the best. Could you not do 1 for pork 1 for sausage? Always handy to have meat in the freezer as a bargaining tool
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I have a sausage maker / mincer so could make my own for my own consumption. And yes I could raise them for pork rather than bacon. Just been looking at weaners for sale. they average at about £50 each but I will also price up butchery and slaughter at the place where I currently take my sheep.
Looks like I need to find out a bit more about different breeds too.
Especially the best type for a wooded area.
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I would go for Kune Kune or (dare I say without a load of abuse :-J ?) micropigs. The reason being that they are smaller and would take longer to totally trash your fairly small area of land. Conventional pigs will have it turned over in a couple of weeks and then look around for further entertainment.
In addition, you will be snowed under by pork and pork products if you go for larger breeds. The smaller pigs take longer to mature but have a far superior flavour.
I had 2 micropigs that I had turned into chops, sausages and beefburgers, and they were (and still are) delicious. But they absolutely filled one and a half tall upright freezers. To get 2 conventional pigs killed at the same time means you will have an absolute mountain of meat to get rid of.
They do not need a wallow as you have plenty of shade. You can always hose them down if it's hot.
By the way kune kunes and micropigs are available at little money if you keep your eyes open. I was given mine, and I advertised some on here a few months ago for free and there were no takers.
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Kunekune pigs need plenty of grass to graze and a bigger area than you have available, I would have said your bit of land was more suited to traditional breeds (but what do I know ;) ;D)
I didn't realise one side wasn't fenced (a hawthorn hedge won't put a determined pig off :o) so you'd definitely need to do that or you'd be forever rounding them up.
I think your original plan was good :thumbsup: Don't worry about drowning in pork - you'll be amazed how many people would buy a quarter pig if you advertise them, especially if they see them in the field. Ask friends and family......you might just be surprised!
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I was looking at some smaller /micro type pigs yesterday LRR. I dont have enough grass in there for a grazing breed such as Kune Kune and I dont have enough space for large breeds for a long period.
With regards to the fencing... It is currently pig fenced on 3 sides with Hawthorn along the 4th side. What I am trying to work out is if It costs me £400 to have 90mtrs of fencing to make the area secure, could I make £80 a year on pork sales or offset meat value i my freezer to repay the cost over 5 years.
The Hawthorne is not secure even for sheep so thats why the area is unused and overgrown. But as I now need to fence a hawthorn hedge joining the overgrown area to make my orchard secure I am wondering weather to do it all and bring the overgrown area into use to offset some of the fencing cost.
I dont want to pour lots of concentrates into them if I can avoid it so I will need to source a supply of veg locally.
Rest assured folks, if I decide to go ahead with it I will make sure they are safe, secure and have everything they need to lead a happy life. Albeit a short one.
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With regards to the fencing... It is currently pig fenced on 3 sides with Hawthorn along the 4th side. What I am trying to work out is if It costs me £400 to have 90mtrs of fencing to make the area secure, could I make £80 a year on pork sales or offset meat value i my freezer to repay the cost over 5 years.
I would have thought it feasible. And not only that, but once it's fenced you've got a secure fence for anything you want, for the next 25 years. (Who knows - this year pigs; next year ? ? :llama: :&> :goat: )
My 2 micropigs, once they'd grown, ate about a bag of pig nuts/week @ £8/bag. I basically only fed pig nuts and they ended up very fat. So you could probably get a much better carcass considerably cheaper by sourcing plenty of veg.
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When are you thinking you might do this? If you get a couple of 8-week old weaners fairly soon and take them to bacon weight you're looking at keeping them on what could turn into a muddy morass where you have to carry water several times a day if it freezes. Pigs don't like wading around in freezing mud through the Winter. Also, if there's rubble under the soil are you sure that's all there is? Do you know what it's from because pigs will certainly root it up within two weeks. Feeding pigs is both an art and a science and, as has been mentioned, Kune Kunes are probably one of the most difficult to get right, certainly for a first-timer - you could end up with a freezer full of very expensive lard.
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Sounds like a good plan. Would agree that the feeding is an art. Anything with some rare breed in gas a tendency to turn fat if not careful. We don't mind at all but it makes selling it more difficult. We're close to finishing a couple of saddlebacks and are hopeful they'll be leaner than last lot of British lops. Have been feeding the 1lb a day for each month if life system made up of a mix of rolled barley and pig nuts. £50 a weanet sounds blooming expensive to me. Only ever buy privately but would never pay more than £30
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Depends on whether you're buying a pig of unseen parentage from market or off farm from a registered pedigree herd where you can see both parents and the conditions they're kept in and where the owner will give guidance if you need it.
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Have never bought a pig at market( have seen weaners go for £8 there). Always direct from farm and having seen both parents. If its going for the freezer don't need it to be registered. Just healthy and with a good start in life.
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I think whoever is selling weaners for that price is doing no favours to other breeders. No wonder so many people have come out of keeping pigs over the past few years and so many rare breeds are in a perilous state.
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I would think that it is mainly commercial 'cast offs' in markets - you'd take a chance on what you were getting for £8! :o . Also you might potentially be bringing in goodness knows what in illness and disease and deformity that had not been detected prior to sale or picked up in the market. Personally I'd never buy any pigs from markets, only from breeders that I knew and could see how they were kept and treated, be they either pure bred or crosses.
Yes, our pure breeds do need more support, too many have been lost already and a lot are in the 'at risk' category unfortunately. :( .
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Thanks everyone for your pearls of wisdom. Lots of helpful suggestions and as ever a mixture of opinions.
I went to see some outdoor pigs today and now know just how much work has to be done in order to take some on. :relief:
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I think whoever is selling weaners for that price is doing no favours to other breeders. No wonder so many people have come out of keeping pigs over the past few years and so many rare breeds are in a perilous state.
It's not the seller's fault they only fetched £8 it's market forces. People shouldn't be breeding pigs if they are going to end up dumping them onto an auction where there's no demand for them. The best way to promote rare breeds is to get more people eating them, not encouraging more people to keep them with no market for what they produce.
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If you are selling a top quality weaner for £30 you are selling for under the cost of production, at least it is unless you're feeding the parent stock and piglets rubbish, in which case it wouldn't be a top quality weaner. Isn't selling at less than the cost of production what the dairy farmers have been leaving the industry for?
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I would think that it is mainly commercial 'cast offs' in markets - you'd take a chance on what you were getting for £8! :o . Also you might potentially be bringing in goodness knows what in illness and disease and deformity that had not been detected prior to sale or picked up in the market. Personally I'd never buy any pigs from markets, only from breeders that I knew and could see how they were kept and treated, be they either pure bred or crosses.
Yes, our pure breeds do need more support, too many have been lost already and a lot are in the 'at risk' category unfortunately. :( .
It is truly shocking. Many years ago when I was at a market they were selling broker sheep for very little around that price I think. I used to buy our large blacks from a friend of mine who doesn't keep em any more, she retired, they were the best ones I have seen in a long time though and the pork was sublime. I am thinking of keeping them again once I have the pen sorted out and a new pig arc. I have a friend who lives near me who sells large black weaners, am gonna buy two males to fatten up for slaughter ( hopefully). I agree that buying them at that price is outrageous, as a buyer you could be bringing in anything onto your farm. I try and buy direct from the breeder with any animal now (not just pigs) as I don't trust commercial sales. I have seen some people selling top quality large black weaners, from a rare Dorothy line?, for about £200 each, I thought this a tad overpriced, is it or am I overreacting? a weaner should be between 60-80 £. The guy am gonna buy em off is selling them at about £60 each, so thats not bad. :)
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I would think the difference there is whether they're meat-quality or breeding quality. If I could sell weaners for that price I'd be a very happy bunny!
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Hi everyone,
I just thought that I would let you know that my research has revealed that the ivy, bracken and possibly the elder berry shrubs in my wooded area are poisonous to pigs so a wallowing spot sounds like the least of my worries.
Just thought I would let you pig keepers out there know before you harm your precious pigs.
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Pigs are usually really clever when it comes to avoiding things that aren't good for them (unlike sheep ;))
I doubt the bracken will be an issue - lots of people use pigs to clear overgrown areas of bracken (they root it up rather than eat it) likewise the ivy and elder - they have a bitter taste which puts the pigs off. Unless they were absolutely starving I doubt they'd eat enough of it to have any effect on them.
If you were really worried you could cut the elder and ivy off at ground level and pull it out but I wouldn't bother trying to do that with the bracken. I'm sure others will be able to give more info on this for you too :thumbsup:
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If I put pigs in to clear it I will spray it first to kill the ivy and bracken and rake out as much as possible. The idea is to thin the woodland out and allow more light to encourage the grass area to spread. Removing the nettles and bracken will also allow us to sow some sheep pasture seed and encourage some nice herbage in there.
There isnt much in there right now in the way of nice grass so any pigs put in there will be fed hay and veg / fruit. I want them to rotavate it not ruin it through hunger.
I have visited two Kune kune keepers so far to check out the breed and I must say that they seem to vary quite a bit. Seems good breeding stock could be hard to obtain. :thinking:
I have come up with a plan for the wallowing area so I just need fencing and accommodation. I think all this will be easier than finding the right pigs though.
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If there are any cheese makers nearby you could take the whey off their hands and mix it with barley and feed it to the pigs. Whey is usually free as cheese makers want to offload it. Here is an article for it.
https://archive.org/stream/wheyfeedforhog/wheyfeedforhog_djvu.txt
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There are local cheese makers producing gourmet / deli type foods. I will see if they have a surplus.