The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: RPF on June 28, 2015, 06:49:40 am
-
For those interested in meat birds and or La Bresse and Indian Game, I thought that I'd share my experience with my project so far. I would have put it up sooner but illness had got the better of me so this is where I am as from now.
The chicken tractor in the photo was what I used 20 years ago for my exhibition OEG. When I went to uni and stopped mucking around with my birds to pursue birds of a new sort, my old man put it in the woods. I dragged it out recently and it was completely overgrown. I've done some minor repair work for the time being but ultimately the sides up to 1m will have windbreaker mesh and half the roof of the run section will been covered with tin. It's about 40ft x 10ft including the accommodation. Chicks go there from 36 days. I'm working out how long for because they need to reach a size where the Kites won't get them out in an open pen, approximately 4weeks.
Chicks start in a brooder hut. I try to follow the La Bresse protocol as much as I can for rearing them but I have adapted methods to suit my local environment. EG mine get mainly wheat and barely as maize costs a fortune over here and there's no local stuff readily available. I shall not be employing the epinettes method as I feel it is cruel and kind of goes against the whole concept of free ranging. However, a few weeks prior to slaughter, birds will be put into smaller fattening pens and the sheep barn, when not in use.
My aim is to do 100 to sell as stock fowl and a 100 to sell oven ready at 16 weeks, 20 weeks and 24 weeks, the latter being for own consumption to experiment to see if extra time makes any difference to size and flavour.
The fowl in the photos are some dark IG, LB and LBX Jubilee IG. Lavender markings seem to have been bred in from the IG when crossed. The cocks take on the IG but hens take on LB, even the legs, which is why I missed them as I originally thought the blue leg was a weak gene so went to flesh coloured like in the males when crossed.
Robin
-
That is a lovely healthy looking bird, keep up your good work! Whereabouts do you live?
-
Sorry about pics
-
Another pic
-
Another pic
-
Thank you Devonlady, she's a lovely girl, may have to keep her as she's so friendly! I'll probably keep back a trio of LB X IG as they are great looking birds but also to see what they turn out like. I have some BrahmaXDark IG's, which I'll keep back a trio and then sell the rest.
I live in South Oxon. My out-laws live in South Zeal, is that far from you?
-
For those interested in meat birds and or La Bresse and Indian Game, I thought that I'd share my experience with my project so far.
Hi Robin.
Please keep the information flowing as I'm interested in this kind of project.
I've hatched La Bresse and Indian Game chicks over the past couple of years with very mixed results and in september last year purchased a trio of well bred, dark egg laying, english cuckoo marans. My plans for 2016 is to cross some of these with an Indian Game cockerel.
-
Thank you Devonlady, she's a lovely girl, may have to keep her as she's so friendly! I'll probably keep back a trio of LB X IG as they are great looking birds but also to see what they turn out like. I have some BrahmaXDark IG's, which I'll keep back a trio and then sell the rest.
I live in South Oxon. My out-laws live in South Zeal, is that far from you?
Other side of the moor! Indian Games were my passion until foxy struck but, with a keen Grandchild I have a fancy to start again!!
-
Hi Robin.
Please keep the information flowing as I'm interested in this kind of project.
I've hatched La Bresse and Indian Game chicks over the past couple of years with very mixed results and in september last year purchased a trio of well bred, dark egg laying, english cuckoo marans. My plans for 2016 is to cross some of these with an Indian Game cockerel.
Yes, of course. I'll be posting a translation of the LB rearing protocol that I have translated the the French site as well as other LB producers so we can all sing off the same hymn sheet, like in France. It's slightly different to the info that I've obtained over here but nevertheless they are fairly akin to one another.
How come you had such mixed results?
Please also keep me up to date with your Marans story, sounds like an interesting mix. I grew up with Marans, English type, so could be interesting.
-
Other side of the moor! Indian Games were my passion until foxy struck but, with a keen Grandchild I have a fancy to start again!!
IG's or CG's (my wife says that Cornish Game sounds better than Indian Game, as it highlights their English provenance) are lovely docile birds, that are very friendly and inquisitive. I like their colouring and their cannon ball stature. I have the bantam version too, which I believe to be pretty rare.
-
Very interesting Robin, this is pretty much my plan for next year.
Any chance of an update
-
Other side of the moor! Indian Games were my passion until foxy struck but, with a keen Grandchild I have a fancy to start again!!
IG's or CG's (my wife says that Cornish Game sounds better than Indian Game, as it highlights their English provenance) are lovely docile birds, that are very friendly and inquisitive. I like their colouring and their cannon ball stature. I have the bantam version too, which I believe to be pretty rare.
'ere don't go go calling us Cornish English!! Cornwall is another country ;D ;D
-
I'll be giving an update this week about ration plus some photos to so how they are coming on
-
'ere don't go go calling us Cornish English!! Cornwall is another country ;D ;D
Apologies to the Cornish!
-
La Bresse and La Bresse x Cornish Game cockerels circa 9 weeks. Note the bird food bucket as indication of size
-
This La Bresse is much bigger than the others, I like the shape of his father an uncle, the latter of whom died recently so he' s a keeper so I don't loose that bloodline. He was raised by a bantam but mega friendly and certainly not flighty.
-
LB HEN, I'm going to keep and sell the larger ones whilst the smaller ones are going for the pot. I'll cull pretty hard so as to keep my bloodlines strong.
-
I have recently watched a video on utube about rearing LBs in French so I'll translate the gist of it -
Chicks are under heat for 35 days with starter crumb then put outside
New ration is 60% wheat, 20% maize, 10% milk powder (cereal ground to flour)
Birds have 10m2 of grassland, capons20m2
Birds fatttenec for 16 weeks with 2 weeks minimum in epinettes
Hens 20 weeks and 4 weeks in epinettes
Capons 40 weeks and 4 weeks in epinettes
Fattened on wet mash mainly
Some producers do their own ration so each may vary, ie with rice
White maize, which is from the area is used but not normal maize due to the cerotine that would stain the flesh, needs to be as white as possible as it is a sign of quality
-
The LB producers either grow their own cereals and produce their own milk or source it locally, which is part of the LB protocol. LB is famous for its butter so a lot of buttermilk is used.
In South Oxfordshire, we do not grow white maize nor do we have much dairy. Sticking to the local theme, I buy my cereals from a farmer down the road. I use lam lac or nearest equivalent. I hope to get a couple of Golden Guernseys to utilise their milk in the near future.
John Seymour says that barely is the best grain to fatten chickens on. I was giving mine a mix of 50%, 40% crushed barely and 10% milk powder as a wet mash. However, the birds didn't like the whole wheat so much so I give them either just crushed barely or boiled whole barely and boiled wheat with milk powder. Recently I've acquired an 8x 4 trailer load of potatoes that I boil up with whole barely and milk powder, which they seem to enjoy.
So, if you are going to use wheat, either grind it in a small grain mill or boil it. Birds don't like whole barely so much so it needs to be crushed or boiled.
Feed is administered twice a day and provide ad lib. The reason it's twice a day is so that it keeps fresh owing to the milk content. Don't chuck a mountain of food out as it quickly goes stale.
I'm sure there are other methods out there but this method uses what I have to hand locallly and tries to stick to the LB protocol as much as I can.
-
Thanks for the info Robin, very interesting mate.
How long before your first batch are on the table ?
Weighed my LB cockerel the other day and was pleased as he is over 10lb.
My Poulet Galouise are for the chop in the morning so interested to see how they dress out.
-
Hi Dave,
Was a pleasure! My first batch must be 9/10 weeks so I'm going do put a small batch in more confinement in about 6-7 weeks. They'll remain there for 2 weeks to fatten so still a while off yet! I'll try one or two of each - LB cock, LB X IG. Hens I'll leave another month with 4-5 weeks in confinement.
Wow, that's a good size bird, you should get a 6-7 lb carcass off of that! Let me know what they dress out like.
I picked up a blue IG cock yesterday, very handsome indeed!
-
His age is unknown and I was looking to replace him with one of his sons but it's looking like they are all hens, so he has a reprieve for another year.
Next season I will only pen him with around 5 hens to try to improve his firtility.
-
I've got a new batch hatching at the moment. I'm not at home this week for I'm in the Lakes. My wife reports that so far 12 have hatched plus 2 dark IG bantams. There's a mix of Coronation Sussex, BrahmaXDark IG and LB. I'll have to post some pics Friday or Saturday. The bantams were a shock as they were due Friday so we thought that they weren't going to hatch.
-
Hows the project going Robin ?
Are any at processing weight yet ?
-
Hi Dave, thanks for the message. I think I'm on about week 14. One of my LBs is massive and could be ready but due to his size I'm keeping him for breeding. His father has a lovely shape and I like the cocks from this bloodline and prefer the hens from my other.
The LB X IG are coming on really well. If you are familiar with IGs, they are quite leggy at this age. However, they've got some good weight to them, especially the hens.
I've stopped giving them milk with their ration, too bloody expensive, so will just give it when I confine them at the end. I got the farmer where I get my grain from to grind the wheat so they eat it quicker. Hasn't made a huge difference and had to buy 280kg at a time.
I hatched out another batch but only 30 ish hatched. I think it's due to one of the cocks being too old, he croaked it last week so became bait for fox trap. I was told the older ones in group were 3 when I bought established breeding flock, must be older though.
About 10 hatched were Brahma x IG, which are turning out to be lovely birds; 10 ish are Coronation and Light Sussex, which come out pretty well and 10-ish are LBs. I managed to hatch 2 IG Bantams, looking like a cock and a hen. I've got them on game crumb for a few more weeks.
-
These are up to date photos so far. The first is of a LBXIG hen that looks very gamey. It was hard to get a good shot at the cock but he looks leggy at the minute. Notice the hens retain the blue legs but the cocks don't. You can really see the jubilee colouring in the cocks but not the hens, they are whiter or lavender
-
Cock birds
-
This is a BrahmaxIG hen, note the beautiful colouring. The cocks are more ginger. Sold a few of these and they prove popular due to their nice colour and feathered legs. Still pullets/growers but so far seem the same size as IGs the same age. Not sure what they will dress out like, got several cock birds to fatten.
-
Like the look of these :thumbsup:
Whats the idea behind them eating the ground wheat quicker?
-
Cant see the pic of the Brahma x IG mate ???
My La Bresse are 15 weeks old now, very tall and leggy but look like there going to make big birds when they fill out, my IG are about 11 weeks and have a bit of growing to do.
Will take some pics and try to post them up.
Which crosses are maturing the quickest do you think ?
-
Like the look of these :thumbsup:
Whats the idea behind them eating the ground wheat quicker?
The idea behind ground wheat is the same principle behind wet mash, ie, birds use less energy to consume it thus speeding up/increasing consumption.
I'm going to keep back a few bags for the final fattening but not bother with it whilst they are loose.
-
Cant see the pic of the Brahma x IG mate ???
Which crosses are maturing the quickest do you think ?
-
Cant see the pic of the Brahma x IG mate ???
-
Which crosses are maturing the quickest do you think ?
Pure LB seem to mature the quickest but depends on the strain for I have 2. These LBxIGs are maturing pretty quick. Check out some better pics below. The BrahmaxIGs are as slow as the Orpingtons if not slower and are still cheaping.
-
I'll take some pics of my IG soon and put them up too. Mine are still at their leggy adolescent stage, which why KJG Hawkey believes that they have Malay in the original make up.
-
Some of my breeders
-
And another
-
And another
-
Trying to put up some pics of my La Bresse & IG growers but can't get them to load ???
-
Really good pics Dave, thank you for posting them! I sometimes have the same problem uploading them, I find some pics work better than others and I always just do one at a time now, even though it says that you can do 4.
-
There a good size but look past there best to be honest and were in quite poor condition when i got them last year.
Not sure of there age but desperate to get some young stock out of them next year, then give them the chop.
Only 3 hens from them this year, will try again to put up some pics.
What size flock do you keep Robin ?
-
15 weeks old
-
11 weeks old
-
Nice pics Dave, those LBs and IGs are coming on well!
My LB flock excluding this years bred was 25. Lost a few though. The majority were bought as established breeding flock but the reality is that some were older than made out to be. I think that's why I suffered such poor fertility from my main flock. I've got 2 bloodlines and 3 breeding groups. Was meant to be 4 but having major reshuffle at the minute due to loosing 2 cocks. One more may have to go due to being aggressive as don't won't to breed that into my main bloodline.
-
This is one of my Jubilee cockerels. Leggy at the minute and the yellowness in the leg a good sign of purity. Note that he should be probably more Pyle in colour but still a bit young to judge on colour. Indian Game should only be fully judged on colour once they've reached full maturity.
-
My other one
-
One of my Jubilee hens, note the unpronounced lacing that could potentially develop a bit more with age
-
Dark hen of same hatch
-
Dark cockerel
-
Nice looking birds mate
How many are you looking to keep back for breeding ?
How many breeds and how many breeding groups are you looking to set up for next season ?
-
Going to have
Brahma x IG
Blue, dark and jubilee IG
THATS ABOUT 12
about 20 -25 LBs
Then 4-5 buff Orpingtons (the missus')
Getting rid of my Coronation Sussex and don't want too many breeds I just want to specialise in 2-3 breeds. The Bramha x IG sell well as they look nice so I'll keep them going. I need to seriously think about my IG groupings as I don't want to interbreed too much, I.e parental is ok but sibling can be a bit dodge.
What about you mate?
-
We'll my White Leghorns are going, they are excellent layers if huge white eggs but I have too many white birds, ha
So it will leave me my La Bresse, IG and Welsummers I also have a few Cukhoo Marans which I cross with the Welsummer cock bird, you get sex linked chicks and really good dark egg layers
Your Brahma x IG, what are you crossing them too ?
-
I'm just going to keep my Brahma cock and run him with an IG hen as the pair are quite comical. I was going to line breed the progeny as I think I'd get a really interesting bird but I'll save that project for another day! So, I'm going to get rid of the BrahmaxIGs. I've got 3 from my first lot, the 2 hens are sold and the cock needs to got in the fattening pen. Got about 10 growers to get rid of. I reckon 4 are cocks as they seem to be sex linked.
-
Quite pleased with the way my pullets are shaping up
-
19 weeks now
-
.
-
Won't let me put up anymore pics :tired: even though I've reduced them in size.
Anyway my IG are filling out nicely.
Don't know weather to keep them all over the winter just incase of losses or sell I cockerel and a few hens locally, so I can get eggs back if need be. Because I don't want a big flock of these only mainly for cross breeding.
Haven't weighed any yet but will be at about 24 weeks.
How's yours doing Robin ?
-
Hi Dave,
nice pics. Those LBs seem to be coming on well. My dark IGs have come on a treat. I picked up the cock the other day and he weighs well. The jubilees seem a bit on the small side so might flog them or bang them on the head for the pot? The pullets I'll put with my blue cock. I prefer the look of the jubilees but it's the darks that are best for the pot.
I'm hoping to try out some of my LBs and LBXs in the next couple of weeks. I've got somewhere to process a big batch of them but I'll do the odd one myself. I think I have to take 50 at a time but will check. Will need to flog some to friends etc as got quite a few at the minute. The only disadvantage is that a batch may consist of birds of different ages as I might have to bring on birds a bit longer to make up a batch.
Over wintering birds can be dear even free range. You could flog them as you could get £25-30 a bird, I reckon. If they are for crossing, you just want the cocks as the hens are poor layers. Unless matey's lay well? In any case, you don't want too many.
-
your doing well finding someone who will process them even in batches of 50.
will you be able to identify each breed after processing or will you have to do 1 from each breed yourself so you can id weights and so on ?
Im going to start asking around some of the local guys to see if there interested in the IG, so if i ever need some replacements i will have some close by.
my PG is laying like the clappers and has been since she was 17 weeks
if i had any sense i would try to hatch some eggs from her straight away given they arnt suposed to have a long and healthy life, ha
-
The IG are starting to fill out now as well
Although the pics don't do the justice
(http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1917692/image.jpg) (http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1917692/image.jpg)
(http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1917695/image.jpg) (http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1917695/image.jpg)
Enjoying the fallen apples
(http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1917696/image.jpg) (http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1917696/image.jpg)
-
Extended the IG pen to give them some fresh grass
I've never known a breed eat as much grass and greens and as little pellets as these.
(http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918360/image.jpg) (http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918360/image.jpg)
They are filling out nice now but still slower to mature than my La Bresse, im hoping a cross between them will be ideal
-
My Poulet Galouise which is a Label Rouge style french table hybrid
She is 21 weeks now and been laying like the clappers for 4 weeks already
I wish I could hatch some eggs from her straight away as you never know how long they will last as they are designed to be processed at 12 weeks, but she's very fit and rangers a good 100 mts or so from her run every day.
(http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918362/image.jpg) (http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918362/image.jpg)
(http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918364/image.jpg) (http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918364/image.jpg)
(http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918366/image.jpg) (http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/1918366/image.jpg)
-
Hi Dave, sorry for my belated reply. Your IG are looking very healthy, there's a nice lot of apples too! I bet they love all the wind falls. Have you fancied processing a couple for yourself to try ?
That PG looks like a plump young thing, gosh! Would defo cross well with something.
Given that I'm getting mine processed, I'm going to have to bang a couple or more on the head to see the difference myself. The IGX cocks would be easy to spot as don't have blue legs but the hens do. I've only got 4 IGXs so will process them myself me thinks.
I've let batches 2 and 3 into a new fattening pen together. Lots of grass to eat and small willows to shield them, they love it. Batch 1 are still in the chicken tractor. I'll probably leave them in there as they are ready, I think. I'll get some picks over the weekend or Monday. Depends on how long I stay at Newbury show. Was going to exhibit a LB cockerel but I haven't the energy to go to the other side of the farm to get him etc so exhibiting the missus' Buff Orpington cock and one of my IG hens.
How do you process your birds?
-
Trying to upload photos of IGs but not having much luck
-
Well, I can't upload any photos so I'll try again another day.
I may as well allude to my chicken tractor that is pictured and mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I have found that it can hold up to 20 chickens comfortably, if moved every week. That gives them a really good free range but you could fit a lot more in. Next time I'll use it as a confinement pen for the last few weeks. So I'll roof it all with tin and put wind breaker mesh all around. No need to move it as I'll bed it down with straw.
This particular chicken tractor has its major draw backs 1. It's extremely heavy, has to be towed with high power tractor rather than atv, Land Rover, compact tractor. 2. Due to its length/size it has to be towed onto completely flat ground otherwise gaps appear underneath. 3. Food and water (by bowser) have to be taken out to the middle of a field seperated to the other colony.
So, my experience with it, in case anyone has seen it and wants to get one made up, is that it's a lot of work for 20 or so chickens. If it were static and used as a confined pen near the amenities of the main colony, with roofing and side weather protection, it would serve a better purpose.
-
Hi Dave, sorry for my belated reply. Your IG are looking very healthy, there's a nice lot of apples too! I bet they love all the wind falls. Have you fancied processing a couple for yourself to try ?
That PG looks like a plump young thing, gosh! Would defo cross well with something.
Given that I'm getting mine processed, I'm going to have to bang a couple or more on the head to see the difference myself. The IGX cocks would be easy to spot as don't have blue legs but the hens do. I've only got 4 IGXs so will process them myself me thinks.
I've let batches 2 and 3 into a new fattening pen together. Lots of grass to eat and small willows to shield them, they love it. Batch 1 are still in the chicken tractor. I'll probably leave them in there as they are ready, I think. I'll get some picks over the weekend or Monday. Depends on how long I stay at Newbury show. Was going to exhibit a LB cockerel but I haven't the energy to go to the other side of the farm to get him etc so exhibiting the missus' Buff Orpington cock and one of my IG hens.
How do you process your birds?
Thanks mate yes I am fancying try an I G or 2, I think a mate locally is taking at least a cockerel and maybe a couple of hens which will be ideal for me just incase I loose mine for any reason.
I have a hen with an eye injury at the moment so waiting to see what happens before I let any go.
Thinking of processing my spare cockerel just to see what they are like pure, I have heard they are a bit tough but would like to taste for myself.
Yes my PG is a nice looking thing and really docile to have around, but do I cross her with IG or LB ?
I think LB might be more suited but i don't want any more white birds ha.
So might be an IG, keep a cockerel the buy in some more PG next year to cross that with.
I process them myself but would like to find some where local that would process 50 birds or so for my future project.
-
This is one of my jubilee pullets
-
This hen won 1ST at the Royal County of Berkshire (Newbury) Show
-
This is my dark cockerel, still a bit leggy
-
Some jubilee cockerels
-
Mine are still a bit leggy but filling out nicely. I think there are 19 weeks or there abouts as from 1st week in May
-
Jubilee hen with chicks
-
Robin are there any other things they do in France other than what you've already mentioned about rearing the La Bresse?
Is that the traditional way or do they do anything else do you know?
-
Hi Clansman, the traditional way of rearing La Bresse is featured at the beginning and page 2. I've compiled all the info from my research and condensed it. I don't think I've missed out anything important but each producer may vary slightly eg feeding rice or a higher percentage of maize versus wheat.
I've adapted my method to suit my local environment. Sourcing local ration features heavily on the La Bresse protocol.
Another system in France is the Label Rouge, which uses Sasso-type birds in a free range environment. Their stocking density is 1 bird/4m2 vis-a-vis 10m2 for La Bresse. I think birds are usually about 12 weeks and the protocols are less intense. Birds remain free range and are not fattened in small cages.
So there are differences and similarities. The biggest difference is that La Bresse are pure breeds whereas Label Rouge tend to be hybrids. La Bresse is an artisan craft, Label Rouge is more agribusiness.
Hope this helps.
-
Perfect cheers, i missed that page!
I have a friend interested in doing them to the correct procedure used in France
-
Birds are looking good Robin, got plenty of leg on them :thumbsup:
And that dark hen is stunning.
How are the LB X IG coming on ?
-
Hi Dave, tried about 10 times to upload so decent pics of them for you, no joy! They've got a good weight to them and I'd say better than the LBs on the whole. I ought to weigh them but don't have the facilities but I reckon they are ready just that I'm not yet!
I might try knocking a couple on the head next week. The downside of this is that they won't have any milk so perhaps I ought to look at putting them in a smaller cage for a couple of weeks? Or they could be more like Label Rouge chickens?
My old LB cock looks on his last legs so he's going to have to go. Not sure whether it's worth processing him as a boiler or to chuck him on the bonfire? His son, who I thought was going to be a good'un has turned out too small and too aggressive will have to go too. He's not that old so can be a broiler.
How's your birds?
-
Do you have a replacement for the old LB cock bird ?
I just use a fishermans spring scales only cost you £5 from a shooting / fishing tackle shop, they are not really accurate but give you a good idea.
Really pleased with my LB hens which just keeps annoying me that I have no cockerels to try on the table, fingers crossed for next year.
Just on picking my IG keepers as my mate is coming at 4pm to take some off my hands.
Will work as a good back up incase I get a fox attack or something.
How are the LB x IG hens looking are you processing them as well or keeping to cross back, if so which way are you planning to cross back ?
-
Just sold 3 hens and a cockerel,
I weighed the cockerel as my mate picked him up to inspect him, he was 5lb at 16 weeks old.
I am no expert with IG but was happy with that size, I know the frame will be big and slow growing is to be expected but he felt really meaty.
The birds I have kept are bigger and better marked that this cockerel so I'm looking forward to weighing them again at 20 weeks.
-
Yeah, I'm planning to knock the old cock on the head soon as he looks dozy the whole time so is passed it. I've got 2 decent cock birds from my first batch to replace him. They can have about 20 hens between them as they are young and fit but will reduce hen number further down the field.
I've ordered digital fishing/luggage balance off amazon. Do you put yours in a trug/bucket? I'll start weighing them so we can compare notes.
Well done on selling a few and good that matey is local. I need to see a few sussexes and brahma X's. I had them up on preloved but nothing as of yet. Might try a local Facebook page or even on here?
I think I'm going to process the hens too. At the minute I just want to run with pure breeds. Batch 1 isn't that
big regarding LBs and LB X IGs. I sold a few, lost 2 so and am keeping back 2 so that only gives me 7. I'm hoping to process this week or next.
-
A trug would work but I use a strip of hession sacking, I wrap it around the bird then the hook of the scales works like a clip to keep it closed.
My mate ended up taking 2 cockerels and 3 hens, he's going to set up 2 breeding pens one with some nice LS hens I sorted him out with last year.
I might get a few IG x LS hens from him next year to blend into my PG table bird project.
Really interested to see what your birds dress out like and how the crosses compare to the pure breeds in size, shape and taste :yum:
-
Yeah, I'm planning to knock the old cock on the head soon as he looks dozy the whole time so is passed it. I've got 2 decent cock birds from my first batch to replace him. They can have about 20 hens between them as they are young and fit but will reduce hen number further down the field.
I've ordered digital fishing/luggage balance off amazon. Do you put yours in a trug/bucket? I'll start weighing them so we can compare notes.
Well done on selling a few and good that matey is local. I need to see a few sussexes and brahma X's. I had them up on preloved but nothing as of yet. Might try a local Facebook page or even on here?
I think I'm going to process the hens too. At the minute I just want to run with pure breeds. Batch 1 isn't that
big regarding LBs and LB X IGs. I sold a few, lost 2 so and am keeping back 2 so that only gives me 7. I'm hoping to process this week or next.
Any chance of some up to date pics before you process them Robin :thumbsup:
-
just saw this thread. Brilliant info Robin and Dave. I'm jumping in with the same request as Dave, any updates with the LB x IG Robin, weights or photos? I'm planning on this cross myself next year to see if they are any better than IG x LS, so any updates would be great.
-
Hi Ryder, good to see someone else with an interest
What breeds are you working with at the moment ?
Do you do many birds for the table ?
-
Hi Ryder, thank you for joining the thread. I've got some more recent photos but having problems uploading them. I'll try again.
I've got the abattoir booked for next Monday. In the mean time I'll endeavour to get a few live weights.
-
This is a LBXIG cock Cerca 20 weeks
-
LBs and crosses
-
Main breeding flock
-
These are part of Batch 3, they are Brahma X IG. Not sure how they'll turn out so just a bit of an experiment as they may be crap?
-
These are Batch 2 that is in with Batch 3. They are made up of LB, LS and BrX IG. The plan was the flog the hens and eat the cocks but retain all LBs. I'm going to get them processed at an abattoir so it could be a waste of money getting the non-LB cocks done as my strain is no good. Only time will tell. These are fed on barley and whole wheat so as to keep the flesh as white as possible ie no maize.
-
Thanks for the update RPF. Please do update with the live weights if you can, it would be really useful for me to compare with my IG x LS. I know strains make a big difference, but still, it'll give an idea of which cross may be better for a homebred table bird.
This is my first year of trying to do something for the tabe. I ordered IG x LS eggs from someone who's been doing the cross for a few years trying to improve for table qualities. At 16 weeks the best cockerel (I only had 4 cockerels hatch) weighed 2.4kg (live weight) and he is not looking all that leggy, although he obviously still has a lot of filling out and growing to do. The second one is not far behind at about 2.3kg. I'm planning on keeping the best cockerel to breed back to light sussex to see how that works out as it is a classic fast maturing cross for the table, IG x LS cockerel over LS.
I'm just trying to decide on which 2 breeds to keep for improving strains for the table. At the moment I am quite impressed with the IG x LS and I want to see how the Bresse x IG compare.
I've got 4 la bresse growing, they are 8 weeks at the moment (from 12 eggs, again ordered in as I could not find any local), and I've also got some RIR x Dorking and a LS x Dorking growing.
-
Batch 2 hen
-
Hi Ryder, your project sounds interesting! Have you eaten any of yours yet or matey's? Dorkings are meant to be fantastic birds but there's only a few strains out there worth touching for meat. Are you processing yourself?
I need to get the live weights done. The LBXIGs are not big birds, about the same size as a mature IG cock, well, the strain I have, but just solid muscle! LBs are not the biggest of birds too but very muscular. However, it's not its size you are looking for so much with the LBs but more its flavour.
-
By the way,
BATCH 1 is 20 weeks approx
BATCH 2 is 15 weeks approx
BATCH 3 is 11 weeks approx
-
I've eaten a LS x Dorking I had at 19 weeks, and the flavour was awesome with good amount of meat to bone ratio, but I really needed to let it grow to about 24 weeks for a better meat bird. It was 2.5kg at 19 weeks live weight. Not eaten any of the IG x LS yet.
I was hoping for faster growth rate from the bresse, faster than what a LS can provide to the indian game, as I've heard bresse are very fast maturing. The flavour would be a welcome extra, but doesn't the flavour actually come from the french diet, rather than it being an inherent trait within the breed?
-
and by the way, your batch 2 hen is looking like she's already filled out incredibly well at 15 weeks. Or is that just the angle in the photo?
-
LBs and crosses
Nice looking Pure LB
He looks larger than the cross, will be interesting to hear the weights between them.
-
Main breeding flock
I like the look of them hens in the main breeding flock, nice & broad.
PS, why is it not copying the pics over when I quote your post ?
-
I've eaten a LS x Dorking I had at 19 weeks, and the flavour was awesome with good amount of meat to bone ratio, but I really needed to let it grow to about 24 weeks for a better meat bird. It was 2.5kg at 19 weeks live weight. Not eaten any of the IG x LS yet.
I was hoping for faster growth rate from the bresse, faster than what a LS can provide to the indian game, as I've heard bresse are very fast maturing. The flavour would be a welcome extra, but doesn't the flavour actually come from the french diet, rather than it being an inherent trait within the breed?
That LS x Dorking was not a bad weight for 19 weeks mate especially if it was a meaty bird rather than a large framed bird if you know what I mean. :thumbsup:
-
So a quick up date. Last night I crated up the birds and took them to the abattoir near Oxford this morning. Was relatively straight forward. In this batch I kept back the 2 biggest cock birds and shoved them in my main breeding pen for next year. In this batch were 8 LBXIG, 2 Jubilee cocks, 4 LBs, and 6 Orpingtons. Some haven't turned out great but should give an OK small carcass. I pick them up fully dressed tomorrow am. I'll weigh them and give the weights tomorrow. Taste test is likely to be the weekend. Watch this space.
-
ANALYSIS OF DRESSED WEIGHTS
On a lovely sunny morning I picked up the birds today. To tell the difference is relatively easy as there is sufficient leg to see the colour of their skin. The Orpingtons have the same colour leg as the cross cocks but one can distinguish them by a few remaining feathers. However, I've got 2 weighty LBXIG hens that I have to group in with the LB as they have the same leg colour. The IG have yellowlegs so pretty easy but also yellow skin, which I was surprised to see as mine aren't on maize.
A brief recap on ration - wheat and barely ad lib. However, the IG and the small LBXs that a hen hatched are not ad lib but am and pm feeds. The wheat and barley is local, grown about 4 miles away.
LB AVERAGE WEIGHT - 1.49 kg
The smallest that normally would be culled was 1.05kg and the biggest was 1.84kg. I had a small number hatched by a hen that did not come on brilliantly so brought my AV weight down, including some crosses.
LBXIG COCKS AVERAGE WEIGHT - 1.86kg
I had 2 at 2.10 and 2.15 kg but then one a hen hatched at 1.34kg
ORPINGTONS AVERAGE WEIGHT - 1.73kg
I was very impressed with the way they turned out but I accept that they aren't a proper meat bird and has a higher bone weight than LBs. The heaviest bird out of all of them turned out to be an Orpington at 2.3 kg.
IG AVERAGE WEIGHT - 1.35kg
These were Jubilees so slightly less stocky and they could have done with a bit longer as we're still a bit leggy. The best one of the 2 came in at 1.46kg.
I'm going to do a parallel tasting at the weekend. Will defo do LB first with maybe IG. Some people say IG is too tough so let's wait and see......
-
Interesting. You fed them only on wheat and barley? Nothing else ? Sorry, haven't really been following the thread that well. Did you do any sums on qty of feed to get to those weights? Also, how much did you pay for the processing per bird?
-
Thanks for the update on the weights. The LBxIG were about 21 weeks, right?
With those dressed weights, live weights were probably around 3.2kg of the 2 better birds (assuming dressed weight is approx 65% of live weight), which is not bad.
-
Yes Stero, the birds were feed purely on local wheat and barley. As per La Bresse protocol, I wanted them purely on local grain. I did have them on a bit of milk too but I didn't think it was worth it for the money. I didn't keep a close check on the quantity of ration as I was ill at the time so had to take my eye off the ball. However, someone from the Low Cost Lving website has done some maths on both meat birds and dual-purpose type birds.
According to their figure, my birds would have consumed 26.8lb or 12.2kg of ration over the 21 week period.
Does that sound about right to everyone else?
If so, chick crumb is £12.00 a bag and they each eat 2kg so that's £1.20 each.
They therefore consume 10.20 kg of wheat and barely @ £4.50 a bag costing £2.30
Total Estimated feed cost per bird £3.50
-
Sorry forgot to say that I paid £3.50 per bird for processing.
According to a recent thread, CastleFarm suggested selling a 2 kg bird for £16.00 so I'm flogging these at £8.00/kg. Not sure if this is too low for La Bresse?
What do other folk think of pricing home grown poultry?
Evidently, the lighter birds are really worth selling as there is too little return to be made.
-
This has been a very interesting thred and well worth following. Thanks RPF
-
Thank you for your support CastleFarm!
-
Yes Stero, the birds were feed purely on local wheat and barley. As per La Bresse protocol, I wanted them purely on local grain. I did have them on a bit of milk too but I didn't think it was worth it for the money. I didn't keep a close check on the quantity of ration as I was ill at the time so had to take my eye off the ball. However, someone from the Low Cost Lving website has done some maths on both meat birds and dual-purpose type birds.
According to their figure, my birds would have consumed 26.8lb or 12.2kg of ration over the 21 week period.
Does that sound about right to everyone else?
If so, chick crumb is £12.00 a bag and they each eat 2kg so that's £1.20 each.
They therefore consume 10.20 kg of wheat and barely @ £4.50 a bag costing £2.30
Total Estimated feed cost per bird £3.50
Thanks, last year I did some record keeping and I think we came to £5 to get birds to POL / Slaughter but that was a mix of males / females so I think it sounds about right as I was using fairly expensive grower pellets.
Next year I'm looking at doing a hybrid flock, just for my honesty box sales. I run rare breeds to sell hatching eggs and the surplus go on the gate but I'm getting moaned at because at this time of year it dries up and there are no eggs. So, i'm going to take 6 of my trad Light Sussex hens and put them with a proper Rhode Red boy I have raised this year and in spring, hatch some 'ginger rangers' which will go on the flat field by the path so customers can see them and these will lay eggs only for the box. As the chicks will be sex linked, I also want to do some serious calculations on raising the boys in terms of cost per kilo at 18-24 weeks. So they will be separated on day 1 and everything recorded. The pullets will have proper grower pellets, the boys, wheat and barley.
I've also got some very heavy Ixworth hens so I plan to source a proper IG boy and see how that turns out for meat birds. Will cost that also. Might be more worthwhile to sell the pullets as layers and just kill the boys for sale. I'll have to have a look around to see if there are any chicken processing facilities around here. I was considering building a plucker etc. but then of course it's more complicated to sell them. Need to look into it.
Great thread though. Thank you.
-
Thanks Stereo, interesting plans you have there! I like the potential IG X Ixworth. I think it'll make a good table bird.
-
Just a quick update - we decided to try the IG for Sunday Roast as we were going to Devon for half term so there wasn't any point in doing a parallel tasting.
This one weighed 1.46kg and was a good looking carcass. However, it looked like a corn fed chicken in that the skin was very yellow. There was a good breast/leg meat ratio. On carving, I noticed how dark the leg meat was and there was hardly any fat in the tray. The taste was super be, I had mainly leg meat, which was quite gamey but I liked that. I had a bit of breast meat too that was also full of flavour. I know some people have remarked that IG is stringy and tough but I didn't get that at all.
-
Try and source some corn and bruised barley it will cost you £80 a ton get builders bag and feed them well on this. It' will be very rewarding.
-
Just a quick update - we decided to try the IG for Sunday Roast as we were going to Devon for half term so there wasn't any point in doing a parallel tasting.
This one weighed 1.46kg and was a good looking carcass. However, it looked like a corn fed chicken in that the skin was very yellow. There was a good breast/leg meat ratio. On carving, I noticed how dark the leg meat was and there was hardly any fat in the tray. The taste was super be, I had mainly leg meat, which was quite gamey but I liked that. I had a bit of breast meat too that was also full of flavour. I know some people have remarked that IG is stringy and tough but I didn't get that at all.
Times move on. We cook our birds in a wood fired Esse which takes forever but it suits the bird it's cooking. Put it in a modern fan oven and you will get a faster meal but it will be no match for the stove version. So I suppose the ultimate meal starts from the parent stock, goes through the rearing and ends with the dispatch, hanging and the stove it's cooked in. Easy then.......
-
Yes, I defo agree a wood fired oven is the thing to cook the birds with! The taste must be second to none. When trying my birds to taste test, I just use salt, no pepper, and rub it with rape seed oil and butter. What do you do Stereo?
-
Just salt and butter. Sometimes some herbs but not sure they do much. Main thing is to defrost properly before getting the butter on. We have to ignore the standard advice and wing it but slow roast suits this and as long as the inner bits are properly cooked, the meat will be out of this world.
Modern 'chicken' is a piece of 'stuff' you add sauce or something to to make a meal. A properly roasted trad chicken can be eaten as a meal on it's own, it's so good. But then honey parsnips, roasty spuds, peas, fresh carrots and a nice thick gravy from the roasting pan. Maybe a few sausages and some bacon.........