The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Borderlands on June 01, 2015, 10:49:29 am
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Hello all :)
I suspect this has been asked before but do you think there's any mileage in this? Buying boy kids for meat raising? I know there are companies such as Cabrito doing this so it must be feasible but where would I start to research? (We currently produce fat lamb). Would anyone be willing so share some advice with me?
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most goat keepers on here fatten up their male offspring for slaughter, we've got 2 going shortly but it depends on what kind of scale you are talking about. Are you talking about buying in male kids and fattening or breeding your own? Also depends on breed as dairy goats usually take longer to get up to weight than meat breeds, ours are a cross of meat & dairy, multipurpose so to speak.
Certainly demand for goat meat/chevre is on the rise, it's becoming fashionable again ::)
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Thanks for the reply :)
Yes buying in at a few days (week?) old, and then raising them for meat. We have 40 acres and a lot of sheds (it's an old dairy farm) and we'd be looking to do it on a commercial scale. If the press are accurate (yeah I know!) then hundreds of boy kids are being slaughtered every day as a waste product.... Am trying to cost it as an enterprise. I think I have the smarts to market it... *gulp* ????????
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you could look at Bere Marsh farm in Dorset, they do organic goat meat etc? They should be able to give you an idea of costs etc and end product, good luck :fc:
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There is a market but you will find yourselves making nothing but burgers and sausage if you want to do I on a commercial scale ! The meat from dairy goats does have a different taste ti that of meat goats and this sometimes gets true meat goat meat a bad name or has in the past at least. How will you feed the wether kids as this will make a big impact on any profit ?
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There is a market but you will find yourselves making nothing but burgers and sausage if you want to do I on a commercial scale ! The meat from dairy goats does have a different taste ti that of meat goats and this sometimes gets true meat goat meat a bad name or has in the past at least. How will you feed the wether kids as this will make a big impact on any profit ?
Thank you for the input :) why sausages and burgers? Is there no market for joints?
I imagine it will be a different taste and that's something we've considered, environmentally and ethically it appeals to me to turn what is in effect a waste product into food.
From what I understand they'd be on milk for 6 weeks then turned out, would they need additional feed other than silage? These are the questions in hoping I might find out the answers to during my research :) I know some farmers round out way use a goat for orphan lambs, would that work here? Ie would a milking goat provide enough milk for 2 kids? Would the cost/ time involved in milking be more cost effective give than powdered milk?..
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Just asking.
So if I understand you correctly
"You are going to *buy* a waste product, feed it top quality milk for 5 weeks, produce silage that could be sold off but instead feed it to your waste product then at the end you are hoping to sell your waste off as prime cuts (joints)."
Wow,
I'm lost for words
Fantastic, please do let us know how it goes.
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I sold my first goat meat this year, a wether from milking goats. At £5/lb for diced shoulder and diced leg, it sold itself in no time. I'd need to look back over my feed bills to figure out profitability but it's certainly easy to sell!
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Just asking.
So if I understand you correctly
"You are going to *buy* a waste product, feed it top quality milk for 5 weeks, produce silage that could be sold off but instead feed it to your waste product then at the end you are hoping to sell your waste off as prime cuts (joints)."
Wow,
I'm lost for words
Fantastic, please do let us know how it goes.
Well I'm pleased you're lost for words as that makes two of us.
I don't really understand the sarcasm in your message
My use of the phrase *waste* is mirroring how male goats are seen by the dairy industry. They are seen as a waste product and they are treated as such.
Silage is something we produce for our 600 head of sheep so not something I would be selling.
I haven't specifically decide on joints, indications I have had so far is that most businesses would prefer the whole product rather than sausages or burgers but it was suggested I'd be doing nothing but making them hence why I asked the question.
We raise male dairy calves on our main farm in the same way for a large company so I believe that the same business model can be applied to goats. As I've said I know it can judging by the growing number of companies doing just that. I was hoping for some advice and support on the specifics.
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I sold my first goat meat this year, a wether from milking goats. At £5/lb for diced shoulder and diced leg, it sold itself in no time. I'd need to look back over my feed bills to figure out profitability but it's certainly easy to sell!
Thanks Benkt!
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We've not tried selling it but we have eaten the meat from the offspring of our dairy goats. We had a mix of joints, mince and chunks and it was all excellent. Once weaned, they were fed the same food as the others, coarse mix with bruised oats, alfalfa and hay.
Not tried a "meat" goat, so no idea what the difference is.
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Thanks Smithycraft! I've tried both and couldn't discern a difference personally. Both of the dishes I tried were slow cooked though, maybe the difference is in how tender the meat is if it's fast cooked if that makes sense?
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They certainly need milk for longer then 6 weeks. Any of mine that are bottle fed get some milk until 5-6 months old. Silage isn't generally fed to goats as they are much more susceptible to listeriosis and they do much better on hay.
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You will also need to supplement milk with a concentrate feed, but if you are rearing calves, the goat kids will do very well on calf mix (18% protein). I don't feed ad lib, except hay.
Yes hay rather than silage - much safer for youngstock in particular.
You need to have a reliable supplier of male kids (and decide if you can rear them horned, otherwise your profit is gone) and also a reliable sale outlet.
The meat is fantastic, esp slow-cooked. We eat ours as (slow) roasts (legs), cubed (for curries and stews) and minced (for whatever you need mince for...)
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have you considered breeding pedigree meat goats?
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Whilst I love your sentiment I'd say you will be throwing money away,its going to cost the same if not cheaper to raise a dairy x Boer for meat and you'll do it a lot quicker and have a carcass that you really will be able to butcher into what ever you want rather than skinny joints from a dairy goat that will be 30 bone !
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have you considered breeding pedigree meat goats?
We have yes and perhaps it something we will try as well. I guess I thought to do some (perhaps misguided) good by taking the dairy boys and offering them a bit more of life albeit still a short one. We had dairy goats growing up and I the boys were always raised for the pot so I think I've grown up to view that as really good meat and find it a shame it's not utilised more.
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Goat meat (Chevon?) is becoming more popular as TV chefs use it, I think there are a few enterprises starting up here and there, we had a message at our local goat club asing if we had any for sale, but we all rear and eat or sell our own.
powdered milk would be easier to use than milking your own goats, but more likely problems if you don't get the mix/temperature right. and it comes down to time,
I think 6 weeks is too young to wean a kid, and they put weight on better if entire, so if using goats for milk you'd have to make sure they didn't get to the milkers. But then of course you'd have to get them away early autumn before they get smelly, or keep them till Jan/Feb after breeding season.
I'm sure there is lots to think about, but you have sheep + calves, try it. why not chat to local butchers/restarants & hotels, see if there is a market?
I know a butcher who buys cull dairy goats, he bought a boer male off me for breeding with some of these goats, seems to be doing OK, saw him at the farmers markets a few weeks ago, shocked at the price he charges though :o
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How much would you be paying for the dairy boys out of interest ?
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Borderlands where abouts in the country are you ?
I know a large Boer breeder that sells off surplus males cheap to farmers to fatten up
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I think 6 weeks is too young to wean a kid, and they put weight on better if entire, so if using goats for milk you'd have to make sure they didn't get to the milkers. But then of course you'd have to get them away early autumn before they get smelly, or keep them till Jan/Feb after breeding season.
There was an interesting talk at the Grampian Goat Club meeting on Saturday by a goat meat producer. They did a comparison of castrated and entire males and there wasn't a significant difference in weight gain
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Agreed six weeks is too young to withdraw milk from a kid. According to the BGS kids should have milk for four months at least. Mine stay with Mum and wean at around six months.
Whilst I love your sentiment I'd say you will be throwing money away,its going to cost the same if not cheaper to raise a dairy x Boer for meat and you'll do it a lot quicker and have a carcass that you really will be able to butcher into what ever you want rather than skinny joints from a dairy goat that will be 30 bone !
I sent a Saanen x BA for slaughter at 20 months and had around 50kg of meat from him. It had to be slow cooked but if he had gone when he should have (about ten months earlier) I'd still have had a decent amount.
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I think you're idea of a relatively cheap and quick turnaround Borderlands may not be as quick or cheap as you first thought :-\
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There was an interesting talk at the Grampian Goat Club meeting on Saturday by a goat meat producer. They did a comparison of castrated and entire males and there wasn't a significant difference in weight gain
Interesting, I always think the castrated boys look 'girly' and vet offered to castrate 2 for me but then said they put weight on better entire, so I tend to leave them now, DH doesn't seem happy about doing the deed anyway ;) . But I'm talking Toggs who seem a bit more chunky anyway.
I've never sent them in at the same time so I've no weights so compare.
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Borderlands where abouts in the country are you ?
I know a large Boer breeder that sells off surplus males cheap to farmers to fatten up
Thanks Mart6, we are in mid Wales with a small holding in England just over the border in the Midlands. Happy to travel if the distance wasn't a problem for the goats...
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I think 6 weeks is too young to wean a kid, and they put weight on better if entire, so if using goats for milk you'd have to make sure they didn't get to the milkers. But then of course you'd have to get them away early autumn before they get smelly, or keep them till Jan/Feb after breeding season.
There was an interesting talk at the Grampian Goat Club meeting on Saturday by a goat meat producer. They did a comparison of castrated and entire males and there wasn't a significant difference in weight gain
We've found the same with sheep. We do ring ours to prevent any unwanted pregnancies but weight wise I don't believe there is a difference with our breed (old hardy Welsh)
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You will also need to supplement milk with a concentrate feed, but if you are rearing calves, the goat kids will do very well on calf mix (18% protein). I don't feed ad lib, except hay.
Yes hay rather than silage - much safer for youngstock in particular.
You need to have a reliable supplier of male kids (and decide if you can rear them horned, otherwise your profit is gone) and also a reliable sale outlet.
The meat is fantastic, esp slow-cooked. We eat ours as (slow) roasts (legs), cubed (for curries and stews) and minced (for whatever you need mince for...)
Can I ask about the reference to horn? Is that because de horning is expensive? Would castration solve that? With our sheep we castrate so horns don't develop.
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Thank you all,
You've been utterly fantastic!
Re the weaning, I had thought it young - our lambs are classed as slow grown and we don't wean until closer to 6 months, I took the 6 weeks from another company who are doing the same thing. I'm hoping they'll talk to me but until I went off their website which said they get them in at around a week old and they are milk fed until 6 weeks.
I really thought that it would be a great idea ethically to raise them but as OH (a very pragmatic Radnorshire farmer) points out I am just a "bloody hippy" at heart :)
I'm mostly looking for something that will enable us to step away from *mainstream* farming and live on our small holding with the kids whilst showing them that you can raise animals for meat without selling your soul to a supermarket. The majority of farmers we know raise meat and then go and do their shop at Iceland but that's another soap box moment!
I have messaged a couple of companies but not found anyone who wants to talk to me yet. I guess my next step is to price up the cost of milk and feed and then find a supplier of kids to give me an idea of price.
Any advice gratefully accepted but thank you so much for all the help so far, you're all very kind :)
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Goats have to be disbudded by a qualified vet, castration (same as lambs - ringed at less than 7 days old) will not stop horn growth. The costs for hat are substantial, but if your lay-out allows for horns you can probably work around the horns. (they will get stuck in fencing for example).
Also goats do better on milk longer in comparison to lambs, and it is expensive if you are talking milk replacer.
Other issues are vaccination for clostridial diseases and pasteurella, worming (if kept outside - no wormers licensed for goats, therefore withdrawal times not available).
I find goats are completely different to lambs/sheep - they are inquisitive and actively look for human interaction. This does make it a lot more difficult to send them off for slaughter. But we do it with our males, and by them time the boys-with-no-names(!) are about 10 months old I find them a handful and am ready to send them off.
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I have pm'd you some information
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Borderlands where abouts in the country are you ?
I know a large Boer breeder that sells off surplus males cheap to farmers to fatten up
Thanks Mart6, we are in mid Wales with a small holding in England just over the border in the Midlands. Happy to travel if the distance wasn't a problem for the goats...
Sent you a pm
I had a quote from vet in Chesterfield for Dehorning of £10 would inmagine at that its + VAT
Thought that was a bargin cheapest i have seen been quoted £25-30 in past
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Borderlands where abouts in the country are you ?
I know a large Boer breeder that sells off surplus males cheap to farmers to fatten up
Thanks Mart6, we are in mid Wales with a small holding in England just over the border in the Midlands. Happy to travel if the distance wasn't a problem for the goats...
Sent you a pm
I had a quote from vet in Chesterfield for Dehorning of £10 would inmagine at that its + VAT
Thought that was a bargin cheapest i have seen been quoted £25-30 in past
Was that under GA or local ?
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My vet in east yorks charges about £16 for disbudding - includes VAT and is under local anaesthetic. I don't disbud my boers - only my GGs
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we pay about £45 >:(
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My vet wants £50 plus VAT per kid, under GA. I no longer have mine disbudded.
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Borderlands where abouts in the country are you ?
I know a large Boer breeder that sells off surplus males cheap to farmers to fatten up
Thanks Mart6, we are in mid Wales with a small holding in England just over the border in the Midlands. Happy to travel if the distance wasn't a problem for the goats...
Sent you a pm
I had a quote from vet in Chesterfield for Dehorning of £10 would inmagine at that its + VAT
Thought that was a bargin cheapest i have seen been quoted £25-30 in past
Was that under GA or local ?
To be honest i never asked which it was, as i am not keen anyway.
Was enquiring re callouts we are just outside area and they did not seem to keen to come even if i paid extra,but soppose they have to draw a line somewhere.
Reading posts above seems to be some big variations in disbudding prices.
Wonder if it is the same for CAE testing ?
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on the subject of goat meat, we have just got from a holiday in Rhodes. Stayed in the south of the island where there are very few tourists. Most nights we ate "baby goat" in local tavernas. Got to admit it tasted almost as good as my lamb!! Joints, cooked very slowly in a red sauce, no idea what was in the "red sauce", but it didn't over shadow the taste of the meat, really lean, very tender. So good that we started talking about having a few goats for the meat. Cant understand why more people don't eat goat meat!!
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I love it which is just as well since we have about a goat and a half in our freezer.
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I just wanted to say I applaud your idea.. :-) I'm probably also a bit of an old hippy but I quite agree with your intention... Do lots of research and see if it might be a goer !
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It is true that dairy goat can taste different to a meat goat as other companies have proved. But why not give it a try. We breed boers for meat and are currently on a new feed plan to get a carcass ready between 6 and 9 months. You just need to research what's the best feed. But just watch the silage for young goats as it's not recommended as its too acidic. Hope your idea works out
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What feed do you give them, how much and what weights do you get at what age?
I have dairy and angoras at the moment.
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our boys get hay over winter with a little bit of concentrate and grass etc through the summer and we send them off at 1 yr old, not a huge kill weight (14-15kgs) but we have introduced a Boer billy so hoping this years kids will fatten up a bit quicker
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our boys get hay over winter with a little bit of concentrate and grass etc through the summer and we send them off at 1 yr old, not a huge kill weight (14-15kgs) but we have introduced a Boer billy so hoping this years kids will fatten up a bit quicker
With your billy if you send away at 1 year you will double that weight !!!
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our boys get hay over winter with a little bit of concentrate and grass etc through the summer and we send them off at 1 yr old, not a huge kill weight (14-15kgs) but we have introduced a Boer billy so hoping this years kids will fatten up a bit quicker
That's about the same as mine, angora x dairy (golden guernsey x saanen) does, so not huge goats.
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My Togg boys usually go in the autumn, 8-9 mnth at about 15kg. carrying one of the boer boys I reckon he nearly weighs that at 14wk
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our boys get hay over winter with a little bit of concentrate and grass etc through the summer and we send them off at 1 yr old, not a huge kill weight (14-15kgs) but we have introduced a Boer billy so hoping this years kids will fatten up a bit quicker
With your billy if you send away at 1 year you will double that weight !!!
I can't wait to see how this lot turn out verdifish, we've got orders for goat meat starting again in March so that will be 7 months-ish.
my next dairy boy goes to the abattoir in 2 weeks.