The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: pgwodehouse on May 24, 2015, 12:56:35 pm
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Hello!
I was just wondering if it is possible to lamb Valais Blacknose sheep outside? I might have the opportunity to get a flock of about 5 ewes and don't know if I need housing facilities.
Thank you and have a nice afternoon :)
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Very woolly so I assume they lamb outside, but since I think you will be paying a lot for them then inside will increase their survival chances no foxes / bad weather / 24hr watch can be kept . :sheep:
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Hello!
I was just wondering if it is possible to lamb Valais Blacknose sheep outside? I might have the opportunity to get a flock of about 5 ewes and don't know if I need housing facilities.
Thank you and have a nice afternoon :)
I have no idea but lucky you .... I can't find an icon for green with envy
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Yup, wanted some myself couple of years ago till l saw the price :o Gorgeous though, enjoy !
Something that valuable l would have an out building.
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You serious?
The price of those sheep. . . . which is frankly just retarded, and a totally daft fashion statement. . . . . .
Who in their right mind would do anything other than lamb them in the sheep equivalent of Fort Knox.
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You serious?
The price of those sheep. . . . which is frankly just retarded, and a totally daft fashion statement. . . . . .
Who in their right mind would do anything other than lamb them in the sheep equivalent of Fort Knox.
With a team of vets in attendance..........
I think they're lambed indoors in their native environment, then taken up to the tops for the summer (transhumance)
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Nope - just 'googled' them, can't believe they are real, look more like stuffed cuddly toys to me, or shaun the sheep who needs a short back & sides ? ;D
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Do they look as appealing if they're called by their "proper" name of Walliser Schwarznasenschaf?
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I would want a shed and security guards if I had 5 of those .... as cute as they are the price is nuts!
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oh please tell me, how much would a breeding ewe cost?????
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There are few Flocks round here and all of the people that have them are suffering badly with lameness issues 1 to the wet weather these sheep come from one of the driest climates in Europe and arnt doing very well here at all !
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Re the foot issues I am not surprised - MY folks used to live there - very little rain, cold, no wind, lots of crisp snow even low down in the valley - does that sound like the UK :innocent:
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Do they look as appealing if they're called by their "proper" name of Walliser Schwarznasenschaf?
I know them as Nez Noir de Valais which is pretty. They all just mean Black Nose Sheep from Valais, Wallis etc, which shows how observant and imaginative people are ;D
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I suspect this may be a wind-up. OP registered yesterday, has made one post and is using what looks like a temporary email address.
Surely if you were going to drop that sort of cash on stock you'd either know the answer to such a basic question already or would ask the breeder? Happy to be proven wrong, apologies to the OP if I am.
As to how much they cost, a farmer in Scotland bought 10 ewes and a tup in 2014 for £55k...
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As to how much they cost, a farmer in Scotland bought 10 ewes and a tup in 2014 for £55k...
What a waste of good money...now what could I do with 55k :thinking:
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there treat like we treat welsh ewes here in there native country! i am sure they would cope here outside lambing. there a ridiculous toy for rich people though i think i could buy some and import them for less than the sell for here!
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Why anyone would pay that sort of money for what is essentially a novelty item is beyond me when in a few years time they will be as common as dog turds in this country.
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I suspect this may be a wind-up. OP registered yesterday, has made one post and is using what looks like a temporary email address.
Surely if you were going to drop that sort of cash on stock you'd either know the answer to such a basic question already or would ask the breeder? Happy to be proven wrong, apologies to the OP if I am.
As to how much they cost, a farmer in Scotland bought 10 ewes and a tup in 2014 for £55k...
This person wouldn't also be looking to farm chickens commercially would they? ;) ;)
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Why anyone would pay that sort of money for what is essentially a novelty item is beyond me when in a few years time they will be as common as dog turds in this country.
If that happens I may well get a couple just for the novelty value! ;D
BTW, if this IS a windup, I'm sorry to say it isn't a very good one. I'm sure each of us could have thought of better (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=60504.0)! ;)
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This is not a wind up, I just registered recently to get more information on that topic, as I couldn't really find much on the internet.
Thanks for your replies!
PS. why should this be a windup? I think I could do better with my time ;)
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Glad to hear that, let us know how you get on and please post some pics. :sheep:
PS. why should this be a windup? I think I could do better with my time ;)
As has been said it seems likely you'll be investing a fair bit of money in the venture, and presumably buying/acquiring from a reputable breeder. Wouldn't they be the best source of info given the breed is so scarce?
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Well I would get them from small german breeders, which are much cheaper and it doesn't look too good to contact a breeder without any knowledge of that sheep breed
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Fair enough! We'll stop the cross-examination now and let the people who know get on with imparting knowledge.
Good luck with them, we had them at the Scottish Smallholder Festival last year and they are very striking.
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Ah - I don't think you said you were not in Britain. Here just a few of these sheep were imported, and sell for very high prices. As a consequence I doubt anyone on this smallholders forum has any personal knowledge of the breed, unless they too live in another country, or are the breeders mentioned above.
No point in taking the huff - we've made a genuine mistake - sorry :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: We'd love to hear more about your experience with these sheep.
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Out of interest then, how much would you expect to pay for these sheep in Germany? The prices in Britain are simply eye watering (many thousands of pounds each), which is why you didn't get a straight answer to your original question!
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Have googled them and they are, as my grand-daughters would say "seriously cute" but then, so was the farmer ;) ;D
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I haven't seen the lambs from the breeders in nature yet but most of them are between 150-300 Euros. I think maybe the price is so low because they are only smallholders and no professional farmers or big breeders.
I would not buy them to start up something commercial though, just for my own :)
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At that price, i'll drive over with a lorry and buy as many as I can. . . . . . drive straight back and sell them here. . . . . then retire lol.
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What are the import costs or implications of bringing them into this country? Does anybody know? It can't possibly cost much to buy them straight off the mountains, otherwise they wouldn't kill any and would just flog the lot surely, so I'm guessing there must be some sort of cost to bringing them over other than fuel. The price of those in the UK are a joke, but they must get the figures from somewhere surely. I mean if I had spent that much on a sheep it would be living in the house with me.
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I suspect it may be a similar situation to the Merino, which was imported in the late 1700's to improve the fleece of the Southdown. They couldn't cope with the English weather and were later exported to Australia where, of course, they did very well. I note the folks who paid a lot for them also keep alpacas, so are used to eye-watering amounts of money. I would feel very cautious indeed about importing sheep to the UK, given the problems with Bluetongue, Schmallenberg and so on in recent years.
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Ah, yes. Alpacas. About 15 years ago at a County Show I enquired about alpacas, temperament, husbandry, feeding, housing and all. The price then, and the lady would only sell them in groups of three was £2,000 each :o :Needless to say I didn't buy any. Now people are finding it hard to shift them.
Be the same with these sheep in a few years time, as someone said earlier. They do look lovely though, and for anyone with the money to buy then now I would say, jump on the band wagon while it's still rolling!!!
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Alpaca prices still seem high - some go for couple of hundred but generally it seems to be around £1k a piece still :(
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If you do get them imported pgwodehouse, you know that you will have a customer list as long as your street for your offspring, esp if they are sensibly priced :D
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Oh lor', that's all we need. Innocent, ignorant people importing livestock without understanding the risks to their neighbours and their livestock ::)
And at the silly prices these attractive (but not necessarily very useful) sheep are fetching at the moment, it's pretty much bound to happen...
There have been concerns that alpaca can carry TB and infect other livestock - and their own humans, too - and yet there's no effective test for them, so they continue to be moved about the country, and over TB zone boundaries, without control.
I wonder what the pretty sheep might bring with them from all over Europe... ? As has been said, Bluetongue, Schmallenberg, and who knows what else...
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And of course, if you spend £000s on sheep like these, the only way you'll recoup your costs let alone make any money is to sell offspring on to others wanting the pretty things too... It's pyramid selling! But it doesn't just hurt the people who part with too much money, it can hurt their neighbours too. :sadandworldwearyface:
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I know someone with 35 alpacas who stopped showing them some years ago for fear of them contracting BTb. She said one of the main problems was "drive by" matings, where a stud male gets carted all over the country (with no pre-movement test).
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Surely the problem (if there is one) is with the import regulations and testing, not the 'ignorant' people doing the import?
And aren't bluetongue and schmal. both midge born diseases anyway?
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my neighbor bought 2 alpacas for 1k and one of them is pregnant and the other is a male...
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Surely the problem (if there is one) is with the import regulations and testing, not the 'ignorant' people doing the import?
And aren't bluetongue and schmal. both midge born diseases anyway?
The midges get it from the blood of the infected herbivore. It follows that the disease can travel over inside an infected herbivore, and will, if the weather is warm enough for midges at the arrival location, infect a local midge when that midge bites the infected herbivore.
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Surely the problem (if there is one) is with the import regulations and testing, not the 'ignorant' people doing the import?
And aren't bluetongue and schmal. both midge born diseases anyway?
The midges get it from the blood of the infected herbivore. It follows that the disease can travel over inside an infected herbivore, and will, if the weather is warm enough for midges at the arrival location, infect a local midge when that midge bites the infected herbivore.
The infection in the imported herbivore will be discovered on post-movement testing. But the local midges are already spreading the disease.
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Yes, but this is about importing livestock from mainland Europe not Timbuktu. All you are really doing by importing stock from Germany is speeding up the inevitable, given that midges commonly fly across the channel; and I suspect we will get more of that anyway as the climate warms up.
If it was a triple muscled sooper dooper all singing all dancing breed that would make us all giant lambs that sell at high prices, rather than just "pretty sheep", I'm sure we would all be less bothered....
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Yes, but this is about importing livestock from mainland Europe not Timbuktu.
We have plenty of diseases across Europe, we don't need to go to Timbuktu to find some to import, sadly
All you are really doing by importing stock from Germany is speeding up the inevitable, given that midges commonly fly across the channel
Yeah, but (a) not so many cattle on the white cliffs, the midges have to reach cattle or sheep to get established. And more importantly, (b) keeping them away as long as possible is really important - more time for vaccines and treatments to be developed.
If it was a triple muscled sooper dooper all singing all dancing breed that would make us all giant lambs that sell at high prices, rather than just "pretty sheep", I'm sure we would all be less bothered....
Couldn't disagree more. Hereabouts we do get folks (often incomers) importing the triple muscled sooper dooper all singing all dancing (or milking) animals - and we do not approve :rant:.
I suspect we will get more of that anyway as the climate warms up.
I'm sure that's true, but it doesn't mean we should lie down and invite all the diseases and disease-bearing creatures to jump on a plane and come over right away.
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How did a very polite smallholding question that pgwodehouse posted below get 3 pages of generally impolite and off-topic sarcasm?? I also notice another recent similar reaction on another post asking about commercial chicken houses. Can the moderators step in when this happens to continue to keep this forum a place where anyone can ask an interesting question without being shot down with snide remarks?
"Hello!
I was just wondering if it is possible to lamb Valais Blacknose sheep outside? I might have the opportunity to get a flock of about 5 ewes and don't know if I need housing facilities.
Thank you and have a nice afternoon :)"
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How did a very polite smallholding question that pgwodehouse posted below get 3 pages of generally impolite and off-topic sarcasm?? I also notice another recent similar reaction on another post asking about commercial chicken houses. Can the moderators step in when this happens to continue to keep this forum a place where anyone can ask an interesting question without being shot down with snide remarks?
There's a 'report to moderator' link on every post on this thread and every other thread on the forum. Neither the OP nor any other member (including yourself) has used the facility on this thread, or contacted mods by PM, email or in the thread.
While I appreciate your view, also consider that this was the OP's first post, and despite numerous replies they didn't revisit the forum until over 2 days after posting the initial question.
At what point do you suggest we as mods should have stepped in - serious question, please look back at the posts and tell me at what point you would have liked to have seen mod activity, and what form that would have taken?
I posted suggesting it was a wind-up because it had all the hallmarks of one, but also left the door open to the possibility it wasn't. The OP's later response strongly suggests they had no problem with the nature of the discussion.
So please let's not be too quick to shout about 'impolite and off-topic sarcasm' on what is an open forum on the internet. 99%+ of questions on here aren't 'shot down with snide remarks' and in this case there were helpful answers even if you consider some of the replies to be snide. Hardly cause for alarm that the whole forum is going to pot?
Personally I though it was pretty much good-natured and has only moved slightly off-topic latterly, although again that is the nature of internet forums. Asking about importing a non-native breed from Germany should naturally lead to discussion of the implications of doing so - maybe we need to get better at splitting threads on here, but that has its own problems.
We're always trying to learn how to keep TAS lively and friendly, so please let us know when you're not happy with anything on the forum - we're not hard to contact, and there are always opportunities for new moderators. :)
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OK, we're sorry for any inadvertant sarcasm or unhelpfulness. My first question when I saw a picture of Valais Blacknose wasn't "can they lamb outside?" though, it was "are they for real?".
(http://www.odditycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Valais-Blacknose.jpg)
I know from previous conversations that Sally has a bee in her bonnet about people moving livestock around without considering TB and other diseases (fair enough). So, surely it's fine to mention that in a thread about importing sheep? The same goes for the Alpaca references, as the parallels are obvious: breeding animals being sold for astronomical prices mainly to other people who hope to recoup their money by selling breeding animals to other people who......
What I'm not clear on PgWodehouse, is are you actually in the UK, or would you be buying these animals in Germany and keeping them there?
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Hi :wave:
Just wanted to add my experience - I came on the site a year ago and must admit sometimes I saw peoples responses to questions as a bit scary and 'forthright'
BUT a year on, after being a avid reader, I have got to understanding the people who post and know what they will say/mean and most of all I see that everyones responses come from a good place - its just a different point of view sometimes but always to educate, inform and most of all - to help.
I think what I am saying is, sometimes it may come across as 'unhelpful' but once you get to read enough posts, the people on here are really nice - they just have strong views :)
and Womble, I know I can rely on you to make me laugh!!!
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Good morning,
I find it very sad how people assume that you're winding them up and just posting for the fun of it and I agree with fieldfare, that this thread has turned very sarcastic.
This was my first post BECAUSE I have never been into smallholding and this could be my first experience, after all everyone has to start somewhere, so I find it interesting that all of you assumes I was winding you up…all of you had their first post once.
Also, I am not sitting in front of my computer all day, as I am a student and in the middle of exams so excuse me if I don't check my messages every 10 minutes.
At the moment I live in the UK and I'd like to stay here but after I saw how expensive these sheep are, I thought it might be cheaper to import them from Germany or the Netherlands as they are much cheaper there. But I see the point of them bringing disease into the country, especially if you see how difficult it is to bring dogs or cats over, it must be even harder (regulations and so on) to do that with farm animals.
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The young stock we have in Scotland will fetch £1000 each .And will live out side no problem
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PG, If you're not trying to get in this breed to make a quick buck, I think you'd be well advised to take a long term view. Unless you can find an experienced agent who would take care of the legals and technicalities for you, importing sheep is not a trivial matter, and is best left to the professionals. Unfortunately that leaves you with just the stock already present in the UK, and as has been mentioned once or twice already :innocent: , they can be a tad expensive.
So, why not find another shaggy breed (Ryelands, Teeswaters even?) that are almost as cute, and get started with them? You could probably buy a whole flock for the price of a single Blacknose, so could gain experience with much less outlay and commitment. That way, once you are ready to get started properly, you'll be in a much better position to make a successful go of it.
Just my thoughts. Your mileage may vary
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Welcome PG :) :wave: :thumbsup:
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Hi and welcome. :wave:
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Love the pic, great the way they follow you, wouldnt catch my Boreray following behind :roflanim:
Beautiful sheep ! :love:
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Oh, yes, do please look at Teeswaters (or any other endangered indigenous breed (https://www.rbst.org.uk/sheep-information)) - Teeswaters are super-cute, nice fleeces sell well, and the breed needs all the help it can get. I'd have Teeswaters here, but it's too wet for their lovely long locks on our north Cumbrian wet uplands. (Last year I bought a couple of black Wensleydales to see how they coped - and they really don't cope well with our wet winters.)
Having said which, we do always advise new starters to get whatever sheep are around in your area first, preferably from a local farmer / breeder, so you learn on a breed / type that is known in (and therefore should be suitable for) your area, and have some support from your local sheepkeepers while you learn about keeping sheep.
If you have the land for 5 sheep, you could approach a local farmer to buy 5 weaned lambs from him/her, and get a bit of experience under your belt growing them on to 'finished' size. Then either sell them through your local mart, or get them butchered yourself for yourself, family and friends.
Or even ask a local sheepkeeper if s/he'd like to use your land for grazing, and involve you in the care of the sheep s/he puts on your land, so that you get some experience of handling and managing sheep.
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We tried Wensleydales as well here. They made BFL look hardy!
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Normal sheep ain't easy (we have lleyn types), I suspect that such a big sheep like the black nose are very labour intensive, we have a wet climate, would they're feet put up with it and being such a weight carrier too, that wouldn't help. If you look round the forum you ll see about advise on what is best for your area. I do find them incredibly cute though,but I doubt I found them that cute in practice. You'd have to have a Turning crate, as there's no way one of those is gonna tip over easy peasy, I can imagine spraying them would be double the dose of a normal sheep, n worming them, I like my back as it is thank you very much. I wish you good luck,it's well worth looking at British breeds though, and a fraction of the price x
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Vf they are amazing, what a fab photo, I can see they do well , but how would they cope with lowland living? A genuine question :) x
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Some time ago someone put some pics of their lambs on, was it WF Dartmoor? I remember thinking I'd love some, or some GFD whch had been on Edwardian Farm (I think). Whatever, they were super cute but probably not give the financial returns OP hopes for :)
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Hellybe they aren't in the coldist part .They live with the Rainders. They came from a glacier in switsland
They also live in Cornwall The ram
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Rather than start a new post, can [member=15578]Victorian Farmer[/member] or any one else who has experience by now comment on do they live outside 365 days a year in all the weather the UK can throw at them? I'm looking at South West Wales complete with liquid sunshine. Ta.
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Some time ago someone put some pics of their lambs on, was it WF Dartmoor? I remember thinking I'd love some, or some GFD whch had been on Edwardian Farm (I think). Whatever, they were super cute but probably not give the financial returns OP hopes for :)
I'm confused again .... Thought you wanted 5 pet sheep .... Now you are talking about financial returns?
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Well I would get them from small german breeders, which are much cheaper and it doesn't look too good to contact a breeder without any knowledge of that sheep breed
First I would like to say hi and welcome to the forum, it's great to have you along! :) I think there is the Valais Blacknose societies, UK and European too, so they may be a good place to start... I must confess I would indeed love a few of my own, but I do hear the meat is very fatty and the wool isn't the best... I would be intrigued to know whether they breed once a year, or twice like Dorset's, or even how big litter sizes are... All the best with them anyway :thumbsup:
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Is this not an old thread that Granny aching has started again to ask a question? Would a new thread not be less confusing?
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Is this not an old thread that Granny aching has started again to ask a question? Would a new thread not be less confusing?
I obviously made the mistake of thinking would read the thread rather than just the original post. I thought using this thread would save people making the same points over again. As [member=15578]Victorian Farmer[/member] has very kindly pmd me I'm happy for the mods to delete my post and subsequent ones and leave this thread archived.