The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: kelly58 on May 13, 2015, 08:56:47 pm
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Any of you use Umbilicul clamps on your lambs ? Wondering about fors and against ? :thinking: Cheers
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Cannot imagine why you would? Seems like an extra bit of hassle, with no real benefit???
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Must be a good reason why we do it with babies, rather than iodine their navals, or some other (less stinging?) chemical. I was pondering this question myself when ours lambed.
There was a brief discussion about it here. Upsides were reduced likelihood of infection entering (anecdotally, not proven). Downsides included bits of plastics clamp littered about, more fiddly to get on and more likely to interfere with the lambs comfort. Maybe the extra weight makes the cord detach sooner?
There was a poster who used them, hopefully he or she will comment.
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Yes. . . . that would be because babies are human beings, whereas sheep are animals.
I can't imagine that the difference in lamb survival would be worth the extra hassle. And knowing sheep, you'd just end up with one dead from choking on a discarded clamp.
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A lamb's umbilical cord separates as the lamb is born and either falls to the ground, or the mother gets up. As it separates, the cord is drawn thinly, which almost seals it, closing the blood vessels. The cord dries up quite quickly with iodine so reduces the likelihood of bugs getting in.
With human babies, the cord is much thicker and more substantial, and as far as I know, doesn't come apart when pulled. So to stop it bleeding or letting in infection we need to tie a knot in it, or clamp it. Even then, the human cord takes longer than a lamb's to dry up.
Maybe because a lamb is up and walking straight away, the chance of infection getting in to a thick, unbroken cord is too great, so natural selection has made the cord easy to break and seal. A human on the other hand takes about a year to start walking, and at least 6 months to start crawling, so a thick, strong cord is more important to the baby's survival, with an intelligent mother to carry it around, without the cord trailing on the floor.
That's my take on it. Pure speculation of course ;D
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Fleecewife. . . . you put things so much more politely than I :D
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Didn't use umbilical clamps this year and had no naval ill, or joint ill - therefore I conclude umbilical clamps cuse naval ill and joint ill. :-J
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Totally agree, Fleecewife, except for this bit:
Even then, the human cord takes longer than a lamb's to dry up.
Both my human babies had cords detach within 10 days. My lambs ones hung around for weeks looking all pointy and uncomfortable!! ;D
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can tie with piece of (iodined) cotton if required. I lost a piglet due (?) to a cord that kept bleeding and I didn't realise where the blood was coming from til it was too late. so there is a risk, though I imagine a low risk.
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Occasionally we get a lamb with a very thick umbilicus and I tie it off with a piece of thick sewing thread and dunk the navel twice. Sometimes happens with piglets and I do the same for them.
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Many thanks, interesting feedback :thumbsup:
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A human on the other hand takes about a year to start walking, and at least 6 months to start crawling, so a thick, strong cord is more important to the baby's survival, with an intelligent mother to carry it around, without the cord trailing on the floor.
There are some people who actually don't cut the cords on their babies and carry both the baby AND placenta around for the first X number of weeks - the placenta goes in a special bag. I believe its called Lotus Birthing, although that might just be the term for people who don't cut the cord until the placenta has stopped pulsing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_birth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_birth) <Safe link
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Yuk, WHY? Although it was interesting to find my local hospital now wait for the cord to stop pulsing until cutting (just had a baby 2 weeks ago), pretty certain that's changed since my first 2.
I also do the thread thing with usually one or two lambs every year.
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I saw that on a TV proggie. Dirty nappies smell bad enough - why would you want to carry a mouldy old placenta around with you? I was worried that it would allow bacteria to travel back into the baby's bloodstream. When I had my first baby, one of the doctors took the placenta to put on his tomatoes. Very nutritious for the tomatoes I'm sure, but....Yuch.
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When I reading your original post Fleecewife, I though of that programme. The carrying round of placenta is called the lotus birth. It has to be treated with herbs and other things and kept in muslin or similar.
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Must say we originally bought the clamps, think they got used twice? Better used for sealing bags for the freezer. There's no substitute then giving the cord a pinch of need be and going in with the iodine. Like others have said it could catch on stuff, cause real problems.
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Jeez there's some weird folk about..still i suppose a few weeks herbal marinade makes for a better casserole.. along with burying my ear wax and nail slippings under the rhubarb, sneezing on the cabbage and flobbing on the lettuce.....and i won't even remind folk of the really yucky options.
Where a navel clip is necessary (human or otherwise) I;d guess it's an easier single handed jon that tying a ligature. If using ligatures try to ue something sterile and biodegradable and theoetically non-capillary attracting
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To me it sounds like a lot of not needed work, the lambs umbilical naturally dries out (on a warm day it only takes a few hours). If lambing indoors then spray with iodine. Clamps are totally unnecessary and are not only a waste of time but could potentially cause problems.
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??? can someone clear this up for me please I thought the umbilical clamps were for the rare occasion when a navel keeps bleeding and this can be used to try to seal it off? We lost a newborn ewe lamb a few years ago due to her navel slowly continuing to seep a little blood - despite pinching it etc. (mother had chewed it quite close to the abdomen). Taken to vet and he tried tying it but by that time she had lost too much blood and died.
Is it the case that some people use them routinely on all lambs? never heard of that and it would seem unnecessary given that 99.9% don't seem to need intervention and as long as iodine dipped all is usually well.
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Jeez there's some weird folk about..still i suppose a few weeks herbal marinade makes for a better casserole.. along with burying my ear wax and nail slippings under the rhubarb, sneezing on the cabbage and flobbing on the lettuce.....and i won't even remind folk of the really yucky options.
:roflanim: