The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: goosepimple on April 10, 2015, 09:25:22 pm
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Right here we go:
2yr old female goat not in kid. Not eating, came on gradually over a week I would say, she's now been ill for about week and half. Today stretching back legs but haven't noticed her doing that before today and have been observing her for past 5 days really well. Not burying head against anything. Thought bloat so did the usual with bicarb/yoghurt/oil but didn't work, continued with the bio yoghurt but nowt doing. Seen her poo (tiny amount at a time, she's not eating), so something passing through.
Took to vet 2 days ago who gave injections: anti inflammatory, anti biotic, vit B to cover all possibilities. Still no improvement. Also vet gave me Provita Rumen Stimulant which I get about half a turkey baster bulb (the balloon bit at the end) into her once a day. She has had this 3 times, no improvement. Vet checked fresh poo (she handily did one when I brought her in) no worms or eggs, all negative.
She has eaten from me a thin slice of carrot peel, a pinky nail sized piece of apricot (favourite) and an inch square piece of cabbage in the past 2 days. There is hay (nice) 24/7 and ready grass but I don't think she's eating either. The goats live in a quarry together and the new spring grass is just starting to come through now and I would say this problem started a week and a half to 2 weeks ago. Vet says roughage only, no concentrates. Haven't fed them anything unusual at all, same routine every day.
She's walking about (slowly) and enjoying my attentions. Listened to her tummy tonight but couldn't hear anything. She seems to be interested in food but gets a bit in her mouth and spits it out. We gave good check of mouth inside twice, and vet also did once but nothing. Feet are good. No tightness in tummy (I've had a goat with bloat before so know what this is like). She is making noises like she's nauseous in her mouth but can't hear anything going on in the tummy. She's not her usual podgy self. All other goats in tip top condition.
She is drinking lots. She's outside most of the time, but looks tender, something's up. She's not sitting down lots or anything, standing usually. Sometimes I think she's not looking too bad but then she's not eating anything as far as I can see and then sometimes she looks weary. Makes lots of little nice noises when I'm stroking her. Can't see anywhere I stroke as being a problem (me looking for a sore spot but nowt).
Anyone any ideas, does this ring any bells? Bit worried, not eating gone on too long I think.
Many thanks, sorry that was all so long. :fc:
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Sorry can't really think about anything - not eating and being a bit lethargic can be some many things... if she has been like this for a week and is still able to wander and poo occasionally around she MUST eat something...
Are you giving her propylene glycol or similar drench (twin lamb stuff) to ensure she keeps her energy levels up?
Once they go into proper ketosis it is quite difficult getting them out of it again...
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Thanks Anke, hoping you would come on.
Yes, inclined to think she must be eating something. Poos normal consistency but a cluster just the size of your thumb nail (equates to what she's eating I expect).
Have tried her with bits fresh ivy too, she did eat about 5 wee leaves couple of days ago but nowt recently. Haven't twin lamb drenched, will ask vet about that on phone this morning.
Tescos about to come with some fresh herbs, see if thyme or parsley appetising.
She was hand reared and loves us, we don't want to lose her.
Many thanks.
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Could it be her throat if she is tring small bits?
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Thanks Clydes, yes actually got twin lamb drench and some more medication this morning. No better by tea time and it occurred to me that it might be the throat as you say, as we had good inspection of the mouth and teeth. Thought maybe something stuck - wee stick or a thorn etc. Took her back to vet this teatime and she had really good investigation all over, inside and out, but no further forward and nothing found.
Put her in wee pen on her own with some roughage yummy titbits cabbage, half grapes and readygrass, bit of ivy, twin lamb drench in her water and she can see her pals. That's all we can do for her, it's up to her now.
Will report how it goes.
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Hope she recovers from whatever ails her - very frustrating.
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Goosepimple I have checked in Drovdahl "The Accessible Pet Equine and Livestock Herbal" and she states "pain will often take an animal off of feed". "cayenne, a heavy laden B vitamin herb is good for encouraging appetite. Other additions in this department would be: catnip, black strap molasses, raspberry leaf and nutritional yeast. Several of the spice herbs can be given, such as : cinnamon, cloves, small amounts of nutmeg and ginger" "Black pepper (freshly ground) .. can encourage the stomach back into action. Slippery elm or marshmallow root (both being mucilaginous , soothing and mineral rich) are good to use in situations where you believe GI tract pain may be involved."
hope this helps
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:fc:
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Thanks all, very much.
She's still not eating today although looking reasonably chipper, I'm not with her 24/7 obviously so she may be nibbling branches or grass, hay.
I'll give a bit of spice as you say there Clydes. I'm not sure if she's in pain - vet has given her a dose for that too but didn't make a jot of difference.
Ahh, livestock ::)
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have you any willow?
may not be in leaf yet but maybe pop twigs in some water inside, may put a fewleaves out fairly quick? or maybe she would nibble tips?
Sorry can't suggest anything else, hope she's OK
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Took thin fruit tree branches thanks P, not interested. Will try willow after tea. Now wondering if it's a respiratory problem which is why she doesn't want to swallow and checking out breathing counts etc each time I go out. Have checked on websites but none of the common causes apply. ??? Have contacted vet by email to get her thoughts. Many thanks.
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although I don't have a clue what is wrong with your goat :-\
I will tell you what I did with a sick Doe I had recently. Following a tough kidding, she went off feed, and her tummy started to stop working. So, I withdrew her hard feed and took out the haylage, leaving her with nothing (so I could monitor exactly what she was eating). I then feed her Willow branches (luckily they were just budding) , rose braches, dry hay, and I syringed her twice a day with Ketosis Drench (for energy) and 4 times a day I syringed Bio-yogurt into her. after 4 days she started to recover. Now fully recovered. I am not sure if this will help you but thought I would share the experience with you.
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Thank you Mays that was kind.
She was shivering this morning so I'll put a dog coat on her tonight, she's out in the sun now though so warming up and she had nice drink of warm water.
Giving her twin lamb drench and she has been having bio-yoghurt and a rumen stimulant from vet. That's about 2 weeks now and I would say she is getting slowly and steadily worse.
Am still convinced there is a swallowing thing despite best efforts by vet. Have been reading old posts on here about pasteurella (we Heptavac, now emailing vet about Ovipast).
Thanks all. :fc:
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Goats do respond better to vaccination with Lambivac and a separate pasteurella vaccine like Ovipast. But if your girl is on Heptavac at the moment I wouldn't rush to use Ovipast. If she had a clostridial disease (and goats really only get Tetanus or Enterotoxeamia) she would be dead by now. Also probably the same with pneumonia/pasteurella. So I think you are looking at something else here... but I honestly cannot think what it could be.
Have you thought about Johne's? It does present differently in goats to sheep, apparently no diarrhoea until final stages, but slowly wasting away with increasing loss of appetite. It is unlikely, but you seem to have ruled out most other things? Unfortunately there is no 100% reliable test for Johne's in the living animal, although faecal is getting fairly accurate. Was she born and bred on your holding or did you buy her in from somewhere else? No other animals (sheep or goats) similarly affected?
Sorry not much of a help... put some honey into the warm water, and maybe also a bit of salt. Just to rehydrate her.
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I know earlier you said vet said no concentrates but I wonder if it's worth trying a little?
I wonder if it sounds like a problem a well known Togg breeder had (fay Ogden) she had a post mortem done on a goat and it had swallowed a tiny piece of wire from one of these chinese lanterns.
Sorry if that doesn't sound good but trying to think what it could be.
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She died yesterday tea time. At the vets. Very upsetting, she was the favourite as she was hand reared and she trusted me completely.
Took her to vets again yesterday (she was leaking at the nose) and had to leave her there, they did xrays and saw a blockage - vet thought it looked like gravel, so they sluiced her and a lot of liquid came out and she immediately looked and felt much better so they left her in the stables for a bit. Xrayed her again and did the same but obviously she was too weak to cope with a second treatment and when vet checked on her in the stables again she had died. Feel so bad I wasn't with her, she was just 2 and would have been frightened.
Thanks for all your concerns and replies everyone, tas still great as ever. :-*
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Oh Goosepimple how awful for you and her :hug:
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Oh no I am so sorry for you and your family, I have only just read this and my heart goes out to you.
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Oh I am so sorry.
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Ohhhh nooooo.
You did your absolute best for her, don't beat yourself up too much.
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so sorry to this this :-[
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Thanks all, very much.
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So sad for you that after all you and the vet had done, she didn't make it. :hug: :hug:
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So sorry for your trouble. Thank you for sharing with us anyway. :bouquet:
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So sorry, we were all with you hoping. :hug: :bouquet:
maybe it's a lesson for all of us to insist on an x ray in similar situations?
did they look to see what the blockage was?
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:bouquet:
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What a shame :'(
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Sorry for your loss. Some times things are just taken out of your hands.
You must be devastated followed the story from yourr first post had everything crossed hoping it would work out. You did everything possible and more.
RIP
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So very sorry to hear this. I have been following this topic and really do feel for you. x
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Sorry, bit late in coming back to this.
If anything learnt here it was that I should have acted sooner with xrays etc, it wasn't a sudden thing so I expected it to clear up but when an animal is weak over illness of a couple of weeks it isn't strong enough to cope with the aggressive gut sluicing and being in a house (vets on site stable in this case) alone.
Will remember that the next time (sadly).
Thanks all.
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Hi Goosepimple,
Its so easy to look back and think 'I should have', been there, too often, but sometimes things don't seem too bad until it's too late. And yes its worse when you feel you should have been there, but you did what you thought was best, and she's at peace now,
The thing about TAS is it is upsetting to read posts like this, but hopefully we all learn by these things, if another life is saved by someone remembering your loss, then she won't have died in vain, I'v probably put that a bit clumsily, I hope it doesn't upset you more
take care :hug: :bouquet:
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Goosepimple
penninehillbilly has summed it up
You certainly went through the mince grinder do not blame yourself you did your best.
The vet was more experienced than you and he did not think about a xray until the end.
All the what ifs wont change anything.
Sad Rip little girl
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:hug:
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Just reading posts I have missed while being off line.
So sorry about your loss. Having kept goats for many years, believe me, I have been in your situation numerous times. Back and forth to the vet with a goat who is not right, but nothing you can put your finger on,. Our vet admitted they find goats and sheep hard to treat, goats especially as nothing is licenced.
Sometimes, you go into the shed next morning, dreading what you will find, and there they are chewing the cud, perfectly fine ......
Its such a shame but you did all you could :bouquet: