The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Renewables => Topic started by: nuteski on March 28, 2015, 06:42:05 pm
-
Hi there from sunny Pontardawe
We have recently relocated from Cardiff to a 5ac. rural property in the Swansea valleys, and are looking at ways to get close to independent fuel sufficiency.
Having read the previous thread on coppicing willow for logs and found out a great deal, and had a few additional questions to learn from the experience of others. I want to plant across around an acre of quite wet land, at about 140m elevation in a sheltered valley (still get good light). This won't be our sole source of solid fuel by any means, but a 4 or 5 year rotation could hopefully make a good contribution - is 4 years generally too tight a turn around for reasonable logs?
The land is on the flat but has a lot of bumps and wrinkles, and is currently a mix of turf and bramble / scrubby grasses. I'm thinking we will need to put down some sort of weed retardant such as silage sheeting (can't afford the woven stuff at like £2-3k for the whole kit) - is this a good idea, or will levelling the site with my min-excavator blade give willow rods enough of a start?
I probably have more questions (such as a good supplier) but obviously want to get this work done ASAP or we'll miss the season.
Any advice or thoughts very happily received!
Al & Cath
-
We planted 100 willows in March 2011, with cheap weed suppression membrane. I bought 1 ft long whips from Mammoth Willows, and we planted in 4 blocks of 25, with a space between each block. I lost about 10 in the first year, but replaced them when I cut back in year two, and now have 98. They were of different types, and some are much bigger than others. We are now entering year five since planting, and the largest trunks are about 4-5 inches in diameter, but in my view not ready to harvest yet. I am not sure how many you will need to cover an acre, but if you go for mixed varieties they probably won't all be ready for harvest at the same time. Hope this helps!
-
I have a number of willows and need to cut them back - happy to send any number of 1 foot stakes to anyone fro the cost of the postage.
-
Your yield and how many years they take to reach a useful size, will depend on the variety you plant. We see lots of biomass plantations which are harvested when still small, as they are used in boilers etc. They grow quickly initially, but I don't know if they would be as quick as other types to reach log size. We have a large variety of willows here, but the quickest growing are what I think are goat willows. They have big fat pussies in early spring, dripping nectar and pollen, so are wonderful for the bees. Crack willow ultimately grows bigger, but perhaps not so fast. There are loads of other varieties, some really fine and delicate, others sturdy and easy to grow, with a huge variety of flowers, for colour and size.
You can both coppice and pollard willows. We had lots of problems with coppicing because of voles and sheep nibbling off the buds and killing the plants, so now we mostly pollard so the new shoots are above sheep stretch, or do alternate coppice and pollard.
Another tree worth planting is the Western Balsam Poplar, which can take the wet, smells absolutely wonderful, and grows very quickly (apparently up to 60 m). We know it as Balm of Gilead.
Although they grow quickly, willows aren't the best for burning - when dry they catch quickly, but burn too fast. Still, you say you will be planting other species too. The quickest growing of the hardwoods we have found to be ash, and apart from Ash Dieback, it's sturdy and healthy.
I wish we had a nice big area for our firewood production, but we'd have to buy more land. It sounds as if you will be self sufficient in firewood before long, which is great.
We have never used any kind of weed suppression for our willows. If you plant sticks which are more like 2' than 1' tall, then you can get more in the ground to produce lots of roots, and the tops are big enough to survive the weeds. We have used protection spirals, but 5 acres worth would be prohibitively expensive, so you just have to hope your livestock and wild life don't get to them.
-
Why plant just willow ?
-
Why plant just willow ?
totally agree .... why just willow? hazel, cherry, alder all grow fast and can be coppiced.... and much better for wildlife
-
Hi there
Thanks for all your quick responses. Verdifish - We've been looking at willow as a supplement the fuelstock we already have available on site and surrounds rather than as a sole source, so were looking for something fast growing (balancing that against fast burning). We're also looking at a ground source heat pump (the thread on here has already been useful).
Hi Doganjo - thanks for your offer of 1ft willow stakes, are they a variety suitable for SRC for logs?
Hi Backinwellies, I see you're quite close to us :) do you know any good local suppliers for those varieties? We're new to the area and have a lot to learn, and also want to source some other tree varieties for windbreaking / nuts fruits etc
Fleecewife - the previous occupants planted a stand of poplar, not sure what variety, but we have around 40 up to around 40 feet plus - there's quite a few whips here and there too and I have been considering whether we could use this resource we already have and expand their coverage.
Thanks again for your replies, you've probably spotted our relative lack of knowledge here and are trying to absorb as much as we can!
-
look into coppicing the poplars on a 5-7 year rotation i.e if you have 40 do 6 a year say, gives you a good fuel supply now and an ongoing supply in the future...
the willow will complement them well, but if the land allows a stand of hazel or something as well will take abit longer but provide more useful materials as well as fuel to burn...
-
I have a number of willows and need to cut them back - happy to send any number of 1 foot stakes to anyone fro the cost of the postage.
I'd love some :thumbsup:
-
I have no idea what variety they are, I got them from HappyHippo.
Pm me addresses if anyone wants any - and say how many you want. I think 20 to 30 costs about £2 postage
-
So where are you nuteski? No sorry don't know any local suppliers ... we just bought and are still planting 300 trees from a Uk supplier via the web.
-
Hi Wellies
We're just outside Pontardawe on the Ammanford road - I think mail order is the likely way to go for this venture but we are looking for other varieties (nuts, fruits etc) and just wondered if there were any good local suppliers in this area.
Alex
-
Look up info on silver birch ..it is known as the weed of the wood for it grows like it .. it burns well , grows on very wet ground and is easy to take cuttings from ( see the RHS website for taking the cuttings )
Willow .... don't you have any willow close to where you are ? you can take cuttings at almost any time of the year and plant them either end up they still grow .
I live in SA18 BZ approx 3 miles to the NW of Ammanford ,your welcome to come and savage the willows at the back of the garden fence .
-
Hi Clodhopper, that's a very kind offer which I think we'd like to take you up on.
The RHS site is great for an 'amateur' like me so thanks very much for the tip - I'm going to spend some time tomorrow (BH Monday) preparing some of the ground here to see how many cuttings we could reasonably hope to get in. Can I let you know after that when we are able to get over to you?
Alex & Cath
-
Willows don't need much prep - nor do silver birch - spade in , make a slit, stick in the 12 inch cutting, boot down, leave :innocent:
-
Hi Clodhopper, that's a very kind offer which I think we'd like to take you up on.
The RHS site is great for an 'amateur' like me so thanks very much for the tip - I'm going to spend some time tomorrow (BH Monday) preparing some of the ground here to see how many cuttings we could reasonably hope to get in. Can I let you know after that when we are able to get over to you?
Alex & Cath
I've sent you a PM.
Dave
-
We'd just like to say a huge thankyou to clodhopper for access to some great willow, some very good advice and some fantastic books as well!
Lovely guy (and gal!) who's time we gobbled up, as well as a good cuppa :)
Thanks Again
Alex n Cath
-
Have the cuttings noticeably taken yet ?
-
Did you plant any popular?? though many regard this as a poor firewood, and don't forget to season for at least a year if not longer as green willow can have a moisture content from 45%-60%
-
My understanding is because of high moisture content willow needs 2 years storage before burning. so you need to build this into your plans.
-
Just finished coppicing some willows for a neighbour. Species was Goat Willow and believe they are a better wood fuel that the standard varieties. Moisture content again very high but I've split them so they will air dry fairly quickly. But would still leave them for at least a year. Currently burning some 14 month old goat willow logs. They catch quickly and give heat very quickly but burning times are low. Probably mix with some Ash or Oak to tease out the burning times. But overall not bad.
As for a viable crop they should be ok but not sure how quick Goat willow grows compared to other willow species. Guess with a decent amount of land, 3m spacing, crop after 1 year so to form more branches. Give them a 7 year cycle could have a decent working coppice. I would introduce some Ash, Hazel and Birch in to the rotation so to give a mix burn for the burner
-
My understanding is because of high moisture content willow needs 2 years storage before burning. so you need to build this into your plans.
There wasn't much heat in the couple of tonnes of willow we used on the multi fuel burner .. same applied to the poplar. we were forever having to feed the stove with it.
The resinous well dried ex Leylandi
caused a lot of tar but gave a lot more heat .
Hawthorn is also good but it spits hot embers every where so a good fire prevention practice & fire guard is essential .
Apple wood & power washed off root logs was the wood that gave us about the best out put but one evening there must have been a stone in a bit of root for when it got very very hot it exploded it & knocked out a couple of strips of the Pyrex type glass in the door
Somewhere on the internet I've seen is a list of woods that gives their calorific outut & suitability for various types of heating / open fires.
-
Website with types of wood to burn
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/woodburning_chart.html (http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/woodburning_chart.html)
-
hi again
Hey cloddopper - the willow have indeed taken, I've got time tomorrow to have a proper look at them and think they may need some trimming. I want to have them for logs in 5 or 6 years, most of them have quite a few new growths this season like the one in the pic attached. I'm guessing the best way to go would be to cut all the new growth back, or should I cut them in the main stem closer to the ground?
Nuteski
-
Hi All,
I started growing Willow for Logs this year in Ireland and am documenting progress in a blog - willowforlogs.blogspot.com
I have the first few posts up if anyone is interested.
Cheers
Smeeeeeee!!!
-
hi again
Hey cloddopper - the willow have indeed taken, I've got time tomorrow to have a proper look at them and think they may need some trimming. I want to have them for logs in 5 or 6 years, most of them have quite a few new growths this season like the one in the pic attached. I'm guessing the best way to go would be to cut all the new growth back, or should I cut them in the main stem closer to the ground?
Sorry for not replying earlier , I'm not using the site as much due to doing other thing.
Sending a PM will trigger a notice in my email system , I look there most day's if I have the time & inclination.
Hope I'm not too late ..... I'd only snip the outer 2 inches off those e branches , you want the wood to grow bushy put down a lot of roots to compensate for the damage done by losing it's tips & then thicken up .
If you chop it close to the ground right now there is not going to be enough leaf about to encourage the vigorous root growth .
Give it six or so years before a proper coppicing would be my suggestion to get maximum wood .
That land where you got your cuttings from was a horse paddock free of any shrubbery or trees 10 years ago , those willows now have 12 inch or bigger trunk diameters .
You could also actually scatter a bit of composted dungs & straw bedding in the tree root areas not much just a fork or two scattered in each tree footprint . For trees also like a boost of useful nutrients too & you'll soon see the benefits they have had from it .
I saw a friends willow wood a few months ago . The cuttings are about four inches apart in metre wide strip rows .
He has currently got 15 rows each nearly 200 mtrs long with tractor accessibility between the rows for mechanical harvesting .
He wants to harvest every other year when alternative rows are about 1.5 inches thick 6 " above the ground then chip them at the farm area up for his biomass burner.