The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: battyfarmer on February 24, 2015, 05:17:20 pm
-
My neighbour's dogs have in the past killed several of our lambs. The neighbour admitted responsibility and offered to pay compensation and said he would get one of the dogs re-homed. However he has kept the dog and it has now killed several of another local farmer's sheep ( he again admitted responsibility and paid them compensation). The dogs are allowed to roam on their own. We are worried about putting ewes and lambs out now which seems ridiculous that we can't use our own fields and are having to take the sheep some way away. Can we force him to get rid of the dog?
-
Have the police been involved at any stage? I would be inclined to consider joining forces with the other farmer and going in to your nearest Police Station personally, rather than contacting by telephone. I wonder if an injunction to force them to keep the dog under control would be appropriate in these circumstances?
-
Oh, gosh, that's an awful situation to be in. :hug:
I really hope your local Police can offer some help. If not, are you a member of NFU? They may be able to offer some advice.
-
Get a gun !!!! Tell the neighbour you will use it if you see the dog on your land !! :rant:
That's disgusting and I would go straight to the police, something must be done, compensation doesn't cover the distress those poor animals had to endure before they died :rant:
-
Get a gun !!!! Tell the neighbour you will use it if you see the dog on your land !! :rant:
That's disgusting and I would go straight to the police, something must be done, compensation doesn't cover the distress those poor animals had to endure before they died :rant:
Gun Hole Spade Alibi
-
As others have suggested, go to the police.
The law has recenetly changed and having an out of control dog anywhere is an offence.
This is from the government website: https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview (https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview)
1. Overview
It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, eg:
in a public place
in a private place (eg a neighbour’s house or garden)
in the owner’s home
The law applies to all dogs.
Some types of dogs are banned.
Out of control
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them
A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if:
it injures someone’s animal
the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal
A farmer is allowed to kill your dog if it’s worrying their livestock.
Penalties
You can be fined up to £20,000 or sent to prison for up to 6 months (or both) if your dog is dangerously out of control. You may not be allowed to own a dog in the future and your dog may be destroyed.
If you let your dog injure someone you can be sent to prison for up to 5 years or fined (or both). If you deliberately use your dog to injure someone you could be charged with ‘malicious wounding’.
If you allow your dog to kill someone you can be sent to prison for up to 14 years or get an unlimited fine (or both).
If you allow your dog to injure a guide dog you can be sent to prison for up to 3 years or fined (or both).
A neighbour of ours had a simialr problem. They informed the police who had 'a word' with the dogs owner. It seems that the risk of prosecution/fine/prison has encouraged them to be a more responsible owner. I hope it works for you too.
-
As others have suggested, go to the police.
The law has recenetly changed and having an out of control dog anywhere is an offence.
This is from the government website: https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview (https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview)
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
makes someone worried that it might injure them
This go's to show this law is wrong.
-
By taking compensation you are getting him off the hook.
Go to the police first, report it, and then demand compensation AND the dog destroyed.
Failing that take ME's advice.
-
You should go to the police.
Buying a gun and shooting a dog? We might all feel angry enough to do that but in reality could end up in more trouble than the dog owner.
-
Just to clear things up, we didn't accept the compensation he offered - we told him we wanted the dog gone and he promised to get it rehomed, which he didn't do. I think the police is the best course of action.
-
I hope you get a good outcome and peace of mind.
-
Our local farmers put up notices ‘ Dogs found chasing or worry livestock will be shot’. Something similar may help you in persuading your neighbour to act responsibly otherwise another vote for ‘Me’. Round here the dog is shot and photo’s of both the dog and injured sheep are in the local paper.
-
No problem at all with destroying dogs that worry sheep. Also better done the first time it happens rather than allowing a dog to become a serial offender.
However, should be done by someone who is a competent shot and who understands the law around shooting a dog who is worrying your flock.
-
I think the shot is best taken by the owner of the sheep, where possible the fewer people dragged into the awful situation the better.
In this scenario the welfare of multiple sheep (and pregnancies) is suffering in the present tense and the dog must be stopped asap. IMO this outweighs the potential for the dog to suffer in the future if certain unwanted and unfortunate events occur due to imperfect marksmanship (eg. the first shot only wounds and a second is required a moment later).
The main thing is stopping the dog and not injuring anyone by being tempted into taking an unsafe shot.
-
Yes, the dog must be stopped. The person taking the shot has to be able to weigh up the whole situation, take a shot and possibly a second SAFELY and all within the law. I don't see how suggesting someone buys a gun and keeps it just for the purpose of shooting a dog or dogs worrying their sheep is responsible unless they are competent person at keeping, handling and using one.
-
Ok, fair enough. Gun (lots of practice) Hole Spade Alibi! And no potential sheep defence is probably not worth getting a gun license on its own.. depending on the frequency and severity of the problem I suppose.
-
I think the moral is not to have a word and expect the dog owner to do something. Go to the police straight away. Difficult when it is a neighbour but so often sheep worriers are serial offenders because the owners are irresponsible.
Shoot if you are competent to do so but why is an alibi needed? If you lawfully own the gun and followed the law you shouldn't need one. Lying to a policeman isn't a smart move.
-
:innocent:
-
If I could catch the dog I would take it for a drive and get the dog warden to collect it. If its not chipped its then likely to be up for rehoming, if it is they get a bill and you can do the same thing again. They will soon get the message to keep it under control. I wouldn't go down the shooting route unless you already have a gun license and are a very good shot, although you are well within your rights.If you are going down that route make sure you report it to the police as soon as you have done it.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-I0d8hVZJs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-I0d8hVZJs)
-
LOL Tim, I watched that right till the end, waiting for the clever bit to come after the sarcasm!
Re shooting, you need to to have a reason to apply for a firearms certificate (i.e. a rifle, not a shotgun - that's different for some reason). I'm pretty sure that if you wrote down 'killing out of control dogs that attack my sheep' as your reason, you'd be swiftly turned down!
-
You can get dogs put on your FAC ticket, if it's a common problem. . . . so the FAO must accept it as a decent enough reason.
-
Moony, that would just move problem to someone else's sheep. Have you a Dog Warden locally, they are usually pretty swift in getting to the problem, they aren't just there for picking up strays and pouncing on people who don't pick up after their dog.
I agree though that the dog is best re-homed in a town or PTS.
Too many people move to the country to give their dogs "a bit of freedom" and say "Oh!, he's only playing" when the dog is chasing heavily pregnant ewes. Even a Chiahuaha chasing sheep can do damage then!
You could put up large notices in prominent places stating that so-and-so's dog is worrying sheep in this area, naming the owner and a description of the dog.
A big problem everywhere :(
-
You can get dogs put on your FAC ticket, if it's a common problem. . . . so the FAO must accept it as a decent enough reason.
Really?
-
The owners of these dogs are totally responsible for the actions of their dogs. If you don't sort it out your allowing your animals to be injured or killed.
Tell the police that you intend to destroy the dogs if it happens again and get an incident number.
They would be dead if they did that around here.
-
Involve the police and also name and shame the dog owner locally.
-
If the police don't seem interested tell them you may shoot the owner if it happens again. They'll be round like a shot!!
-
Me - Yes. Like you can apply for a pistol, captive bolt etc, to dispatch stock, and in the old days, foxes.
-
Ok good. Seems fair enough to my mind but hadn't heard of it.
-
A good 12bore should do the job! That will stop all your problems :fc:
-
We are within our rights to shoot a dog which is worrying our sheep. And worrying can mean just running about off lead, even if it's not actually chasing the sheep.
However, firstly, many of us won't be a good enough shot to do this effectively.
And secondly, most of the farmers and sheepkeepers I know, however angry they are at damage to their sheep, also love dogs. Many couldn't shoot a dog, and many would suffer at least as much stress from having had to shoot a dog as they would from damage to the sheep.
It's something that never seems to get mentioned.
-
Interesting point Sally
I've often wished I'd shot a certain dog in particular, I've never thought how I would feel after.
Not happy I suspect
-
Then one gets a muppet like this;
http://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/47827944 (http://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/47827944) quoting from a book written in 1885, and in his own 'extensive' experience(?), comes to the conclusion; "The biggest killers of lambs and sheep, are actually farm dogs."?????
-
It’s a topic I’ve pondered, just in case it ever happens. Being a dog lover with four dogs it wasn’t easy to come to the decision that if needed to, I would shoot a dog attacking my flock. Yes I’d have recriminations, but I don’t think they would be more than knowing my lack of action had allowed further attack/killings which is the OP scenario. I wouldn’t risk charging around a field with a rifle but would use a shotgun at suitable range. A miss would hopefully scare it off permanently, hit would solve the problem. I would suggest that if more farmers shot rogue dogs there would be a greater respect of the countryside by dog owners and certainly dog worrying wouldn’t be as prolific.
It’s a problem that only the individual can address, but the law is on your side. Obtaining a fire arm requires you to be responsible, proficient and have a reason for applying for one, so it’s hardly going to be a gung ho attitude. Substituting the word fox for dog puts it in perspective for me.
-
Regardless of the 'ethics', I'm not sure about using a shot gun to kill a dog (or a fox)? Surely it would have to be a rifle?
-
No reason it has to be a rifle whatsoever. It is perfectly possible (and easier in some respects) to humanely kill anything from a ferret to a bull with a 12 bore. Distance from the target is the most important thing and secondarily shot size chosen.
-
This might be of intrest to some
http://www.hsa.org.uk/downloads/publications/hsa-humane-killing-of-livestock-using-firearms.pdf (http://www.hsa.org.uk/downloads/publications/hsa-humane-killing-of-livestock-using-firearms.pdf)
-
Yes it's a shame really, it's the owners that need shooting..not the dogs.
My good old dad used to have a saying...and he had good experience..worked on a farm from 9-25 years old then was a policeman for the next 25 years.
No such thing as a bad dog...just bad owners.