The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: Clarebelle on January 08, 2015, 06:25:36 pm
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I'm looking for some advise about the feasibility of the following:
We have a 1 1/2 acre pasture field which is currently empty. I had planned to get a few sheep on it this year but haven't made any definate plans in this regard.
My husband works on a small farm that keep a herd of highland cattle. His boss was saying that they have a cow who is bullied by the others, apparently they barge her away from food and won't let her into the herd, she is just relegated to the back of the field by herself. Consequently she will be going for beef if she isn't in calf. If she is in calf we have been asked if we want her.
In theory I would love this, however I have misgivings about her being on her own, although she would have a calf for some time there would be periods when she would be alone. Also, Is that amount of land suitable to sustain her? It will be split into 4 but one quarter would have pigs in for some of the year.
The farmer says she would be fine but I'm not so sure, I don't know if our setup is better for just getting sheep? Thankyou for any advise.
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1 1/2 acres will not be enough for sheep and cattle all year round, plus you'd have to have more than one cow as it would be desperately unhappy alone.
I'd just stick to sheep if I were you
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I agree that keeping one cow on her own is a good idea - in fact it's a positively bad idea. A calf is OK but ideally she should have "adult" company - and the other cow will need to be horned too.
Regarding the area, it depends on the type of land (and whether you have winter housing) and how poached it would get and how much you are prepared to import feed. One and a half acres won't provide enough grazing for two cows, especially if there are calves, but city farms keep cattle almost on zero grazing. Lots of dairy cattle are never out of a shed. So you could - it would just be an unusual management system.
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Echoing the comments that your misgivings about an 'only cow' are correct; she'll be miserable on her own. However, whether she'd be more miserable alone with only a calf at foot for company than being in a herd where she's bullied is a moot point...
I take your point about some dairy cattle being housed full time, Rosemary, but those animals are bred over generations to be adapted to that setup, plus there will be masses of adaptations in the housed environment for their mental and physical comfort. Personally I abhore the idea of a native breed like a Highland other than roaming about on rough grass (or preferably moor) land. One winter, we kept one of our Blue-Greys in the cubicles (which are very up-to-date and extremely comfortable, all the other suckler cows tell me :D.) I wouldn't say she was unhappy, but she got very hot and sweaty, and we haven't kept any of them in again. They're very happy roaming the moorland with a bit of hay to help them over the worst of the winter, and lots of natural shelter if they need it. And our bull, a very hardy Angus, is much happier being out with them too. (Although he really loved all the attention he got being indoors for his first winter with us ;) )
If she does prove to be in calf, and you can and want to save her from a life being bullied, I'd regard it as a stopgap. If you wouldn't have the heart to send her away once she's reared her calf, or be able to rehome her to somewhere that can give her a more normal, natural life, then you may be better to turn away. Quite a difficult position to be put in, however, and I don't think I could castigate you whichever way you went on that. :hug:
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how about a nice Shetland you can milk?
I presume she will be in 6 mths of the year as you are in Orkney?
do you have a supply of plenty of hay?
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I take your point about some dairy cattle being housed full time, Rosemary, but those animals are bred over generations to be adapted to that setup, plus there will be masses of adaptations in the housed environment for their mental and physical comfort. Personally I abhore the idea of a native breed like a Highland other than roaming about on rough grass (or preferably moor) land.
I guess it depends on what Clarabelle thinks is the worst outcome and what her detailed circumstances are. We inwinter our Shetlands and they seem quite happy. I take your point about the Highland's coat though. A field shelter and yard might suffice - but I do agree it's less than ideal but might be better than being dead.
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whether she'd be more miserable alone with only a calf at foot for company than being in a herd where she's bullied is a moot point...
Freedom to express normal behaviours.. including having the snot beaten out of you by bigger herd mates!
I would guess she would prefer life alone, sometimes individual herd animals do end up living alone in wild situations too
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I take your point about some dairy cattle being housed full time, Rosemary, but those animals are bred over generations to be adapted to that setup, plus there will be masses of adaptations in the housed environment for their mental and physical comfort. Personally I abhore the idea of a native breed like a Highland other than roaming about on rough grass (or preferably moor) land.
I guess it depends on what Clarabelle thinks is the worst outcome and what her detailed circumstances are. We inwinter our Shetlands and they seem quite happy. I take your point about the Highland's coat though. A field shelter and yard might suffice - but I do agree it's less than ideal but might be better than being dead.
Aye, your cattle life the life of Riley, Rosemary! :D
I was responding to the comment about cattle who are housed all year round. I don't think I'd feel easy about a hairy native in a shed 365 days a year. I guess you could always keep them clipped.
I hadn't picked up that Clarabelle is on Orkney. From what I saw of Orkney, the ground is fantastic for cattle; even big beasts (of which they have many on the southern islands) don't seem to poach the ground. I guess the constant wind helps to keep it dryish! We were told that the majority of livestock would be housed for 6 months of the year, as the stormy winter weather made outwintering almost impossible.
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Many of the commercial beef herds here are over wintered indoors but not the highlands, they live out the whole year. We have an old cattle byre so she would be able to go indoors if it was required for any reason.
She is miserable at the moment which is why she will be put out of her misery if she's not in calf. But I don't know if she would be any happier here. I would be able to work with her and interact with her and she apparently loves human fuss, but will that really make her happier? I wouldn't want to move her from one bad situation to another. However, if she didn't adjust here she would have to go for beef - that is just the reality of living here.
Thank you for all your opinions, they are really helpful.
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its so tempting to get other peoples casts off but why not choose a couple of weaned Shetland bullocks (I can give you contacts for Shetland breeders in Shetland and they will arrange ferries for you etc). you know they will only be with you for 2 yrs and then you can take a breather and let the land rest, and have freezers full of meat. they are the most sweetest cattle and not so big, and economical too.
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Hard decision.......think I'd be inclined to take her rather than let her be shot...if the price was right ;) but also be prepared to send her away if it didn't work out.
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With a calf at foot i think she would be happy enough! People used to keep single cows for the house years ago, and a lot probably still do
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I keep highlands and they have a totally different way of going about things to other cattle.
1. Bullying is part of the breed behaviour. They have a very definite pecking order and there will always be a cow at the bottom. This is, however, hardly noticeable when they are out at grass and have plenty to eat. I would be almost certain that the reason she is being bullied is that they are now being fed hay and there aren't enough feeding spaces. A normal ring feeder with room for 12 cattle will allow 12 herefords to happily feed together. But with highland cattle you will only get 3 adults feeding together at any one time because of the pecking order. A cow will not allow a lower order animal to feed next to her, (although she will allow her calf). So you could maybe see if this is the problem, and if so suggest to the farmer that he puts another feed ring in so that the bullied cow gets a chance to get near the feed.
2. Highland cattle are very aware of the safety of being in a herd. Particularly when grazing, you will notice there is always one on guard, so the others can relax and graze knowing that they will be warned of any danger. A cow on her own becomes nervous and unpredictable and if she has a calf she is even worse because she has a calf to protect. I knew someone many years ago who bought a single highland cow + calf and as soon as they were put in his paddock (on their own), she became a killing machine. She charged at everyone she saw. He presumed he had been sold a vicious cow and she went straight to market. The calf was also eaten.
A few years ago I lent a friend my quietest, most placid highland cow (Sophie) + her calf, to eat down some surplus grass. Sophie is the friendliest cow I have so I knew she would be no trouble. (She also happens to be bottom of the pecking order). When delivered to her new pasture she quickly became paranoic. On her own she now had sole responsibility for the safety of her calf. She was sufficiently tame to know she could trust humans, but she couldn't trust anything else, so my friends cats and hens were in mortal danger if they ventured into the field. It was only the fact that they could move faster than her that stopped her killing them. She was so relieved when I came to collect her that she and her calf loaded themselves back into my trailer.
So... it is not a good idea to keep a highland cow on her own, and one with a calf is even worse.
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Thanks everyone, I definitely have much food for thought now!
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landroveroy - do you mind if I ask how a single highland cow would cope amongst a small herd of a different breed? would it be an outsider like a sheep would be? thanks
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Well it's funny you should say that. Like I said, the pecking order is very strong, so it seems to depend if you had an animal that was dominant or subserviant when with its highland herd.
I have mixed highlands with my hereford cattle and the dominant ones march to the food with an air of supreme confidence, expecting the herefords to stand back, in the same way that inferior (to her) highlands would. However the herefords all work on the theory that she who hesitates is last (and goes hungry), so they dive in and attempt to push the highland out of the way, totally oblivious to her horns. So if the highland holds her own, then she's fine and won't get bullied, but it's really funny when she realises that the herefords don't give a toss where she was in the pecking order. So a fairly dominant highland will cope ok because she won't let herself be bullied.
On the other hand, a few months ago I had to bring an 18 month old highland heifer inside to treat her warts. The only other bovine I had inside was Tina, an 8 month old hereford calf that had recently lost her mother. Tina had been inside for a while and regarded the pen as her territory. But she was considerably smaller than Hermione and didn't have horns. So I was very surprised that Tina quickly established that she was the boss. Presumably Hermione, being a young cow, will have been fairly near the bottom of the pecking order with her highland herd and so will have shown some subordinate behaviour to Tina who instantly picked up on it. It was really funny watching the calf push the bigger, horned animal about the pen. She wasn't nasty to her, to the extent of chasing or bullying her - just pushed her out of the way if say Hermione was feeding from her food trough. I now have the 2 of them outside, and Tina still pushes Hermione about if she gets in her way, but it's quite casual and certainly not bullying..
Sophie, the one I mentioned above, was always bottom of the pecking order with the highlands, and I think it's just because some animals just act as if they expect to be bullied, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Anyway, at the moment she's with the herefords because she has fantastic hereford x calves, so it seeems a waste to put her to a highland. You can tell by her body language that she is not a dominant animal, and she does hang back a bit. But we have plenty of feed rings and the herefords are not a bullying breed so she gets on fine with them.
So, in answer to your question, yes a highland would cope alright with a different breed of cattle. A dominant one would probably fit in better, but a lower pecking order one would be treated as inferior whatever it was with, so would always seem to be on the outside.
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thanks, that's really interesting. :thumbsup:
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It is interesting. I read somewhere that a cow's position in the hierarchy was determined by her mother's so I wonde if dominant / subservient behaviour is learned.
We have two 2010 born cows; Blizzard is younger than Breeze by 2 weeks and seemed to be subordinate until they were pregnant then she bacame the boss. We now have Blizzard, her 2012 daughter Annie and Annie's 2014 heifer calf plus Breeze, her 2013 daughter Bonnie and her 2014 daughter Sunny.
All of Blizzard's line even the calf eat first, while Breeze and her family wait. Breeze will push Annie around but only if Blizzard is otherwise occupied. I wish I had more time to sit and observe them - the behaviour is much less obvious when they are outside.
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According to Val Porter, it's not a hierarchy per se with cattle. Each beast has its own relationship with every other beast. So while A may boss B, and B may boss C, it's not a given that A can boss C.
We certainly observe that there's usually a 'top cow', who commands respect from everyone. Some of them wear their stripes with dignity, others abuse their power. For instance, some 'boss cows' will keep everyone else away from feed, even when there is plenty for everyone. (Most just make sure that they are eating the best bit, but don't mind others feeding on other parts.) 'Bully cows', the ones who seem to abuse others for the heck of it, don't get to stay in the nice warm shed over winter... ;)
And there is often a 'bottom cow', who everyone bosses. Our cubicle shed has two sections, a smaller one for my Jerseys and any heifers, and the larger one with bigger cubicles. On a few occasions we've moved the bottom cow up from the large section to the Jersey section, and in every case she has then proceeded to bully my Jerseys and been moved back again!
Hillie (my foundation Jersey) is boss of all the Jerseys, and is herd spokescow. When they are all outside, she often makes decisions for the herd, even though she isn't top cow. I think they recognise her intelligence and respect her decision-making. They certainly know she can get us to do things they need! If Hillie is out of the picture, Plenty (her firstborn) takes over the Jerseys at the moment, but I can see that changing in time; Katy (Plenty's little sister, just rearing her first calf at the moment) has a lot more about her, I think, and I predict her becoming No 2 when she realises that! The other (non-Jersey) cattle take no notice of any of the Jerseys apart from Hillie.